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TheHox

join:2012-05-31

Wire up apartment, sharing cat5 homerun with intercom?

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Looking to serve two, 2 story, apartment complexes, the owner wants each unit wired up for service, as a shared free basic internet service.

I was thinking of an MT router and a managed switch in the utility closet in the basement, put each unit on a vlan, and queue each to around 10mb/2mb.

The utility room, in the basement, has cat5 wired up to each room, 1 pair of which is being used for the internal intercom system, the blue pair to be exact.

Would 2 pair be able to support 10mb/2mb? If so how much more (if I were to upsell more bandwidth)
Furthest distance I would be around 200-250ft.

Would it share it with intercom? Would the intercom suffer any interference with running data over 2 other pair?

Lastly, on the rare occurrence, would phone service be able to operate over the last pair available?
If so, whats my chances of all 3 of them working over a single cat5.

The buildings are 4 years old and both fully leased. One of them at the moment has no land line phone service being used at all. The other may have up to 2, as I did see 2 rooms wired up to the phone patch panel.

The image is one of the patch panels, with only intercom service being used on the blue pair.


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
You could grab the 2 pairs used in 10/100 ethernet (green/orange pairs) and send data down them, it should be OK, Ive shared 10/100 with phone before without issues. You probably could share the final pair (brown) for phone.

Cant promise anything, just Ive done it without issues before.
Should work just fine up to 100 megabits at 250 feet assuming the cable isnt garbage.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

TheHox

join:2012-05-31
Sounds like its worth at least a test to one unit. Thanks

Anyone recommend how I would easily tap into those 2 pair while leaving the blue pair intact? Another patch panel right next to that one? I'll be honest, never used a patch panel for anything really. Helped install DSL once but the phone tech used a plastic connection he melted onto the ends rather than using the patch panel that was in place.

TheHox

join:2012-05-31
reply to TheHox
Should also add this is in a college town. 99% of tenants are college kids. They have cell phones, don't need land lines, just mega bandwidth, lots of games and porn!


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
reply to TheHox
Looks like a 66 block punch, I didnt even know these were available recently, everything for the last decade has standardized on BIX, so you should acquire the proper punch down tool for a 66 block.

If they punched down all the pairs onto the block, you could just grab/make 20 cables 6 footers or whatever length you need, solid copper, cut one end off, and punch onto the 2 pairs you need, and plug directly into your switch with the other end. (probably would I would do), try to maintain the twists as much as possible in the pairs,

Otherwise you could wire cat 5 to a patch panel strip or something, then cables to your switch.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca


nunya
LXI 483
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join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
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reply to TheHox
Something "odd" is going on with those amphenol connectors on that 66 block.

It looks as if that might go to the DAS/Com? Kind of a sloppy setup really. I see a few instances of dialtone mixed in there as well.

It's normally not an issue to mix data and dialtone (or intercom).

There's nothing wrong with 66 blocks. BIX is something I think they mostly use in Canada. It never really caught on here.
We use 66 or 110. There are Cat5 rated 66 blocks. I prefer 66 over 110 any day of the week.

I think your plan will work, but you are going to need to reorganize and re-terminate all the cat5 cables.

I'd probably run all the cat 5's *neatly* into 2-3 split 50 66 blocks. Jumper each DAS/Com pair (BW-WB) over to the existing block with the amphenols. Swing the dialtone over to the new blocks (for the few that are there). Then you can snag the OW-WO and GW-WG and jumper them onto a patch panel for cross connecting to your switch / router.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

TheHox

join:2012-05-31

2 edits
Not all of the pairs are punched into the block, just the blue pairs.

nunya could you possibly link me to what you are referring to? Looking online briefly there are many out there. I want to do this as easy and cleanly as possible.

I'll have to read up on wiring up a block with cat5. All of the pairs get punched in the back correct? Then you punch in front for what you want to use? eg: my 2 pair, OW-WO and GW-WG, and jumper the BW-WB to the existing block?

Not to sidetrack from that issue, but I also need to figure out an easy way to wire up the jacks on the apartment side.
I took at look at one unit, it was a 2 bedroom. Both bedrooms and the living room, had a phone/cable tv combo jack, so 3 jacks total. I opened each one up. The homerun cat5 goes to one of the bedrooms, then from there, 2 more wires feed the living room and the 2nd bedroom. At the moment, the BW-WB wires are all connected to the phone jacks through the whole apartment. The intercom system just uses a corded phone/base station they can plug into any jack in the unit.

I wish the living room had the main feed, as I would just put a data jack there and be done with it.
Or, I could just put a data/phone/TV jack in that bedroom, and give that bedroom the only data access and let them figure it out, but I don't think that is the best way.
Or, I wire up all 3 wires into a combo plate. 1 jack would be the upstream, while the other two would be connections to the living room and bedroom. Then the tenants would have to use 3 ethernet cables to connect the upstream, and the 2 feeds to the bedroom/living room, to their router, which would be in that bedroom. Starts to get confusing, and I can only see that getting worse as tenants come/go. "What the hell do all these jacks do? Which one is the internet!?"

Edit:
Make a jack like this in the bedroom and color coordinate, upstream and living room/bedroom connections?
»oit.pdx.edu/node/950


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
reply to nunya
said by nunya:

BIX is something I think they mostly use in Canada. It never really caught on here.

So true....only seen them once and that was in '79.


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
said by WHT:

said by nunya:

BIX is something I think they mostly use in Canada. It never really caught on here.

So true....only seen them once and that was in '79.

Really? Hehe that is the dominating punch block here then in Canada, but I didn't know it was a Canada only thing. 66 blocks are still common, but no one has used them "new" in decades.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to TheHox
This pretty much puts the kibosh on the POE thing, doesn't it?


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
said by John Galt:

This pretty much puts the kibosh on the POE thing, doesn't it?

Oh yea he was gonna PoE all the switches. Oops.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
There is local power right there so no big deal.

TheHox

join:2012-05-31
Actually these 2 apartments are different from the post I made before. The other apartment in the other thread I did wire up with 20 RB250GS. ( »sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-s···75_n.jpg and »sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-a···10_n.jpg I have to clean up the rest of the wiring yet.) I didn't use PoE, I just used the local power source and mounted the switch to the wall and cleaned the wires up.

This post is for 2 other apartment buildings I was approached to do. Seeing as the wires feed right into a bedroom, I won't be supplying a switch, we will just wire up the jack(s) and let them use their own routers if they want them. Just have to figure out an easy way to wire up the bedroom/living room jacks.


TomS_
Git-r-done
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-19
London, UK
kudos:5
reply to John Galt
If its 802.3af POE then it should work with 2 pairs only, up to a maximum of 100mbit.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
said by TomS_:

If its 802.3af POE then it should work with 2 pairs only, up to a maximum of 100mbit.

It takes two pairs for Ethernet, then 1 pair for phone, 1 pair for intercom, and now 2 pairs for POE?


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
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I believe Tom is referring to "Mode A" operation on a 10/100 Base system, where the data pairs are also used for power. This is fine for low draw devices.
Mode B requires the extra pairs. The PoE source should auto switch to Mode A since the other two pairs won't (and shouldn't) be available.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.