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jaberi

join:2010-08-13

[Serious] Has the seating been re-designed

this is a serious question for all the frequent fliers...has the seating been re-designed to narrow, or are these all new planes now?

also has the first class changed as well?

decx
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Vancouver, BC
Depends on the airline as each customer specifies their own requirement when an aircraft is being outfitted or being refurbished. Consequently some airlines do have narrower seats and seating with less pitch when compared to other airlines. Same thing occurs with the design of the business and first class.

jaberi

join:2010-08-13
i should have said in the last year or couple of years, how often does an airline refurbish its seats......the seats have shrunk, and no one got wider here...


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to jaberi
I know Air Canada's shrunk the seats/leg space on re-fits... They've managed to squeeze an extra row of seating in on some planes. I'm on the short side, so not a huge issue for me, but the FiL is 6'6" - losing 2" of legroom is a problem!

I don't fly first or business class, so no idea what's going on, up on the other side of the curtain...

One thing I did discover a few years ago - United/Ted has an "economy plus" section - seats are (I think) 2" wider, and have 3" more legroom... Maybe the best $50 I ever spent! Made the flight from Denver to the East Coast way more enjoyable!


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
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join:2001-02-04
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Reviews:
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reply to jaberi
WestJet is shrinking the pitch (legroom) to 31" so that they can add extra legroom on a few rows at the front of the aircraft, in an effort to create an "economy plus" product to compete for business class passengers who want the extra space.

The exact same aircraft can be comfortable or uncomfortable depending on what seats/pitch combination have been chosen by the airline. A few years back I flew to Chicago on an AC CRJ and flew home on a United one. They had the same number of rows of seats but they were of two different designs and while the AC aircraft was comfortable and I felt like I "fit", the United one was not and I felt like I was sitting in a jump seat in a C-130 Hercules.
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urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
reply to jaberi
Domestic or international? And which airline?

Every airline in so many countries is different. Lufthansa domestic flights seem to use these old rust buckets that are really comfortable.


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to jaberi
I heard some of the airlines were considering doing away with seats alltogether making it a standing room only deal for domestic flights. Though one would wonder how they'd secure passengers for takeoffs and landings in that case. It'd be a lot more like riding a bus or a subway train huh?

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ArthurS
Watch Those Blinking Lights
Premium
join:2000-10-28
Hamilton, ON
reply to jaberi
Great site to help you decide where to sit:

»www.seatguru.com/

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to TwiztedZero
said by TwiztedZero:

I heard some of the airlines were considering doing away with seats alltogether making it a standing room only deal for domestic flights. Though one would wonder how they'd secure passengers for takeoffs and landings in that case.

Everyone gets strapped together in a bundle with giant zip ties, and then tethered to tiedowns on the floor - just like a human pallet.


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
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said by MaynardKrebs:

Everyone gets strapped together in a bundle with giant zip ties, and then tethered to tiedowns on the floor - just like a human pallet.

Zip ties are single use so they would be a major cost in this system; they'll use ratchet straps if they really want to save money.
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All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
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A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
reply to MaynardKrebs
»www.ryanair.com/en/news/free-fli···ou-stand

I'd question the safety. If you look at Ryanair's mock up, there's a piece that comes down over your chest. I'm wondering how they would adjust for height differences.


squircle

join:2009-06-23
Oakville, ON
reply to jaberi
It's worthwhile to keep in mind that new aircraft seats are also much less bulky, increasing legroom (given the same seat pitch). Take the WJA 747-NG's as examples: their seats are almost half as thick as the old ones, but the seats have the same pitch.

jaberi

join:2010-08-13
reply to urbanriot
it was domestic....both air canada and west jet....west jet does not even have first class..
i imagine international airlines would have to be with wider leg room, can't see someone fly to japan, or australia with minimal leg room.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

1 recommendation

said by jaberi:

i imagine international airlines would have to be with wider leg room, can't see someone fly to japan, or australia with minimal leg room.

Ohh my God, you have no idea... if you can score first class tickets for only a few hundred more for a long international flight, it's worth it just to avoid the leg cramps. Everything hurts after 16 hours, even if you stretch every once in a while in the aisle. They say the 321 is longer than the 320 but I don't feel it...

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
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1 recommendation

reply to jaberi


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
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Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
Some great points there, especially concerning arm rests and AC adapters. Sometimes you get into those seats, put your arm on the arm rest and you're about to pilot a mech.

Walter Dnes

join:2008-01-27
Thornhill, ON
reply to jaberi
Howsabout scrapping reclining seats altogether? All they do is threaten to spill/crush your onboard meal (or your laptop) when the guy in front of you leans back. And the reclining seats have to be thicker and heavier to house the reclining mechanism. Use some of the space saved to increase legroom.

jaberi

join:2010-08-13
i have never seen so many people standing in the aisle, thinking it was one long line up for the washroom

jaberi

join:2010-08-13
reply to MaynardKrebs
great article thanks, and while it says the pitch has not changed i'm not so sure about that..

this is all about american airlines, how does the canadian seating compare with them?
try and picture this; mother, father and 2 toddlers each sitting on their laps and you in the middle seat....toddlers wanted to play with the light switch above and everything and anything that involved crawling sideways upwards or hanging off of the seat in front of them...you allow them and be nice, just so they don't have a tantrum fit....

why not buy the third or middle seat if you have 2 toddlers with you?
every seat on the flight is full..cattle car fits it to a T.


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
That's an old ploy that travellers have done for years. Two people travelling together will purchase the window and aisle, knowing that middle seats fill up last. They bet on nobody purchasing the middle seat. It may vary by airline, but on Air Canada, infant refers to a child under 2. If they purchase a seat they generally pay full fare and you need to have a certified child seat with you.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Walter Dnes
said by Walter Dnes:

Howsabout scrapping reclining seats altogether?

Maybe you can sleep sitting but up but when you spend 24+ hours flying, navigating your way through Frankfurt's airport, stopping over in Brussels and heading to your next destination, a reclining seat is a godsend.

Keep in mind that some domestic flights are used by people coming from overseas so even though it's afternoon for us, they could be on a 30 stretch.


corster
Premium
join:2002-02-23
Gatineau, QC
reply to Walter Dnes
said by Walter Dnes:

Howsabout scrapping reclining seats altogether? All they do is threaten to spill/crush your onboard meal (or your laptop) when the guy in front of you leans back. And the reclining seats have to be thicker and heavier to house the reclining mechanism. Use some of the space saved to increase legroom.

Give it time. Some international airlines are now moving to thinner fixed shell seats that don't recline backwards, but instead slide the cushion forwards to adjust. Much better, IMO, but many customers seem to disagree, as one airline (Cathay Pacific) has since switched back to conventional seats.


Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by corster:

said by Walter Dnes:

Howsabout scrapping reclining seats altogether? All they do is threaten to spill/crush your onboard meal (or your laptop) when the guy in front of you leans back. And the reclining seats have to be thicker and heavier to house the reclining mechanism. Use some of the space saved to increase legroom.

Give it time. Some international airlines are now moving to thinner fixed shell seats that don't recline backwards, but instead slide the cushion forwards to adjust. Much better, IMO, but many customers seem to disagree, as one airline (Cathay Pacific) has since switched back to conventional seats.

That's how some of the first class seats have been. The first time I flew first class, I kept pushing the button, and leaning back and the chair wouldn't recline. I tried and tried and finally asked the flight attendant to help me. She was like "Oh, just scoot your butt forward" and then it reclined.
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twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON
kudos:3
reply to jaberi
I'm 6'5", I don't really fit in any seats besides business/first class. The worst is when the person in front of me reclines as it smashes in to my knees every single time. I usually just push the seat back forward and tell them they aren't reclining.
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Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
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said by twizlar:

I'm 6'5", I don't really fit in any seats besides business/first class. The worst is when the person in front of me reclines as it smashes in to my knees every single time. I usually just push the seat back forward and tell them they aren't reclining.

I suffer from the same problem and if your solution doesn't work, remove the magazines from the seat pocket and slide/"bump" your knees into their back. I find this highly effective.
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All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
Join Team Helix


FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to ArthurS
said by ArthurS:

Great site to help you decide where to sit:

»www.seatguru.com/

The trouble with seatguru is the fact airlines regularly change aircraft
on a flight. We went from the listed 737 to a Bombardier regional
jet recently.

One thing I've found is not all Airbus 320s or Boeing 737s are
configured exactly the same. Or any model of any builder for that
matter.

FaxCap

jaberi

join:2010-08-13
does anyone know why westjet doesn't have first class?

can't recall now if tango does either......

why are the best airlines in the article Krebs posted affording it, and our air canada and the rest of our airlines don't get up to par and offer same type of seats, and service....i mean they post a profit every year, so it's not like they can't afford it...


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
Reviews:
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·Bell Sympatico
The typical first class that you'd find with a North American airline isn't part of WestJet's business model. They are a lower cost airline, and they keep things simple by keeping their cabin the same from front to back. Now, they are coming out with an "economy plus" which will be standard seats with extra legroom (and extra price) to appeal to the business traveller who wants a bit more room, but it will still be within their "keep it simple" model.

They are profitable and want to stay that way during their next phase of expansion (regional airline, buying Q400s as feeders to their 737 fleet) and continue to grow their core business (just took delivery of their 100th 737NG aircraft).
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All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
Join Team Helix

freejazz_RdJ

join:2009-03-10
kudos:1
reply to jaberi
said by jaberi:

does anyone know why westjet doesn't have first class?

can't recall now if tango does either......

why are the best airlines in the article Krebs posted affording it, and our air canada and the rest of our airlines don't get up to par and offer same type of seats, and service....i mean they post a profit every year, so it's not like they can't afford it...

First class does not have a sustainable, huge margin for many operators. If you can't sell the seats at a high price and good occupancy, you will lose money. One 1st class seat takes up lots of room, is heavy (due to motors, electronics, etc) and expensive to purchase. Many airlines are dropping first on many flights, with select high demand routes keeping it. This is happening with BA, Lufthansa group, Air France, Cathay and more.

Premium economy is a much easier sell. Lots of people will pay $20-$500 more for PE depending on the route to get more room, improved meal and inflight entertainment, etc. Not a whole of people willing to pay 10-20X as much as their eco ticket for first, even if it is a nice seat and they serve you caviar and all the Dom you can drink.

jaberi

join:2010-08-13
how ironic this is news on yahoo today, i heard a lot about virgin america most people rave about the wifi

»ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/best-a···l?page=1

did not find wifi on air canada, tango, or west jet.