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« The People
This is a sub-selection from Corruption


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to Telco

Re: Corruption

You failed to explain how paying more taxes for heath care makes free health care free.


Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric

said by battleop:

You failed to explain how paying more taxes for heath care makes free health care free.

Actually, since I didn't make that assertion, I cannot have failed. Rather, it's you who "failed" to read.

While not worded appropriately their underlying point still stands. Essentially every single other 'developed' country but America, use a NHS or single payer model.

Another fact is that due to economies of scale and eliminating profit from the sector, these models work out to be 2 to 3 times cheaper (per capita).

In addition, in the overwhelming majority of actual studies that compare and contrast healthcare in OECD nations in terms of quality, availability, outcomes, access, waiting times, etc - our system ranks last. Yes, these are actual studies, versus the gut-feelings and talking points of faux news and talk-radio hosts.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

You would do well in politics because none of your ramblings come close to answering my question about how paying more in taxes would make healthcare FREE.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

Simple, when you go to the doctor... you don't pay. AKA 'free healthcare'.



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Who's going to pay for his services? The government.

Where does government get it's money? From tax payers via taxes.

What do people use to pay taxes? Money.

Nothing is free.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA
reply to battleop

Said very well. I say those who say they don't like America and would rather live in another country, why they are not leaving and staying here? Ah yes, higher disposable income, cheaper life, better consumer market, etc etc.

No nation is without their problems. Taxes or premiums paid to healthcare companies whats the difference. In addition, most don't acknowledge that those premiums are deducted from pre-tax contribution unless you own private individual health insurance if you're healthy single or rich which is maybe like what 6% of population. I disagree with notion single payer system is the best. Germany has universal multi-payer system that is tons better than NHS in the UK. Not too mention many Britons have horrible teeth, because dentist care there is poor.

Norway, Sweden are in cold climate and have small towns compared to their southern neighbors. They can kiss with their 1-TB fiber optic broadband my a**, i'll settle down in Chicago with 20mb (and I have option to faster if I spend more $$) over Gothenburg or any middle of nowhere place. Fact is bigger cities, with higher population density in larger economic of scale are always gonna come up with higher COL, paying more in mortgage/rent for smaller space. And I rather have money from investors than taxes invested in info-structure. Its true the system is not perfect, many people want access to fast, short-term profit and believe in become-rich-fast scheme. Its greed, but the greed in government can ruin country and economy as well, not just in capitalist world. Its just more matter of balance and regulations. We have 401k invested in stock market and we all want high fast profit and yet stable, solid no loss low risk investment which two cannot go together.


CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to battleop

said by battleop:

Who's going to pay for his services? The government.

Where does government get it's money? From tax payers via taxes.

What do people use to pay taxes? Money.

Nothing is free.

Well, we only need to go up to the search bar to find:

»Re: Analog Voice Gateways

where you talk about Adtran having free support and free AOS updates. This brings us to a problem since you apparently don't hold to your own beliefs. Obviously Adtran factors the costs of support and updates into the purchase price of their products but you were willing to ignore that fact since you are not paying extra for support or updates.

By holding to such an extreme definition of 'free' you render the word meaningless. Are you trying to get this word (which you apparently have no problem using in certain contexts) deleted from the dictionary or are you just upset at the thought of healthcare costs being passed off proportionally to those who can afford it.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

1 recommendation

That's a politician's reply for sure. Deflect and defuse. Come back with that analogy when Adtran is tax payer funded.

"are you just upset at the thought of healthcare costs being passed off proportionally to those who can afford it."

I am sick and tired of having to help pay the way others who continue to sit on their asses and do nothing. We are slowly evolving into a Nation where it's too easy to sit on your ass and let the government take care of you instead of get our and work hard to get ahead in life.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

said by battleop:

I am sick and tired of having to help pay the way others who continue to sit on their asses and do nothing. We are slowly evolving into a Nation where it's too easy to sit on your ass and let the government take care of you instead of get our and work hard to get ahead in life.

Ain't that the truth.
--
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to battleop

It wasn't an analogy but a problem with your flip-flopping definition.

What you (and many others) see as people who sit on their asses and do nothing, I see a group of people being left behind by the system... they are not choosing this. Many people like to portray that these are all lazy, worthless humps that sit around milking the system (Romney calls them 'the 47%'). This is simply not true; the vast majority of them are (or were) hard working people who either retired or fell victim to increasing profits. When you have businesses cutting back, laying off, and no longer paying for healthcare insurance as part of compensation packages, what exactly do you think is going to happen?

Are we to assume that you pay entirely for your own medical costs?


VerizonCynic

join:2006-10-25
Lakewood, CA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to battleop

well metaphysically speaking nothing in the universe is "free" (or without cost)

Sorta like the "you did not build that" line from Sen. elect Warren
--
Lakewood Accountability Action Group | »www.LAAG.us | Demanding action and accountability from local government



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to CXM_Splicer

"Are we to assume that you pay entirely for your own medical costs?"

Yes.



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to CXM_Splicer

Maybe you can point out where I said the entire "47%"?


CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to battleop

said by battleop:

"Are we to assume that you pay entirely for your own medical costs?"

Yes.

Wow, no insurance or anything? You are either a millionaire or you are toeing a very fine line there if you get sick/hurt!

said by battleop:

Maybe you can point out where I said the entire "47%"?

I said Romney calls them the 47%, you simply call them people who 'sit on their asses and do nothing'.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

said by CXM_Splicer:

said by battleop:

"Are we to assume that you pay entirely for your own medical costs?"

Yes.

Wow, no insurance or anything? You are either a millionaire or you are toeing a very fine line there if you get sick/hurt!

If you pay for your own individual health insurance w/o any subsidy from a workplace, then you are paying entirely for your own medical costs.
--
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

A subsidy from your work place is still part of your compensation package. It's part of your salary that's not cash similar to how you may look at a company cell phone, laptop etc where you were allowed to use it for both personal and business use.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to CXM_Splicer

I didn't say that. I pay for my medical costs, i.e. my insurance. It's built into my comp plan from my employer so it does cost something, i.e. not free.

" said Romney calls them the 47%, you simply call them people who 'sit on their asses and do nothing'."

Among the 47% there is no corruption or abuse of the system?
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to FFH

said by FFH:

If you pay for your own individual health insurance w/o any subsidy from a workplace, then you are paying entirely for your own medical costs.

No, you are paying into a system where your medical costs are paid by the funds of all the other contributors... then the system skims off whatever is left. I can see why he would be sick of paying into that!

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to battleop

quote:
Among the 47% there is no corruption or abuse of the system?

Yes, of course there is. There is also corruption in the Republican & Democratic parties and in the insurance industry. That doesn't mean they should be eliminated... when you have a system that you know is corrupt, you fix the corruption.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

I never said they should be eliminated only that there is no such thing as "Free" health care.