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DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1

AyrMesh Hub: Distance

I noticed their literature says 1st hub does 1/2 mile, "Subsequent hubs extend range 2 miles each, for a total coverage area of 6 miles. "

»www.ayrstone.com/wp/products/ayrmesh-hub/

Q-1 Why the difference in range?

Q-2 If a total range of 5 miles is needed, could a cheaper repeater setup be used when first hub already exists? Hence, a repeater that uses just one hub of theirs.


wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1

What are you trying to accomplish?



WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
reply to DrStrangLov

That product you linked to is a rebranded $89 Ubiquiti PicoStation 2 and might be reflashed with new firmware (that will do nothing to increase it's coverage).

That company uses "aspirational advertising". You are not going to get the distances they allude to.


Chele

join:2003-07-23
kudos:1
reply to DrStrangLov

Keep in mind that it's not just the AP's output that matters, also the client's sensitivity and output. There is no point in your laptop being able to hear the AP and not having enough power to reply back to the AP.


DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
reply to wirelessdog

said by wirelessdog:

What are you trying to accomplish?

In a rural setting, I live 4 miles away from a farm that is using this hub for smartphone wi-fi access around the farm. Hence, a means to access this 2.4 wi-fi signal and use it 4 miles away.

Yes using directional antenna on a "bridge" setup would be a better idea. Is there equipment that could access this hub's wi-fi signal?

Footnote - I'm clueless on this topic matter...thx

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to DrStrangLov

Do you have line of site?



WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
reply to DrStrangLov

A smartphone *might* see the AP's signal, but the AP won't see the smartphone.

It's just like those $49/pair bubble-pack radios that claim 22 miles.



Ayrstone

@sbcglobal.net
reply to DrStrangLov

Folks-

Just to be clear, 1/2 mile range is maximum with perfect line-of-sight (i.e. 80% free Fresnel Zone for the RF-inclined) to a laptop or similar device.

The maximum range from Hub to Hub is about 2 miles, again, with perfect line-of-sight. The reason for the difference is because, in microwave data links, it "takes two to tango," and antennas matter more than power.

The Hub puts out about a Watt of power to a 6 dB antenna. A typical laptop puts out about 0.06 Watts of power to a 0-2 dB antenna. So the laptop has much shorter range to the Hub than another Hub will, but it still benefits from the high-gain antenna on the Hub.

And WHT, yes, you really can make them work at these distances. The Hubs are built by Ubiquiti, but we're NOT running Ubiquiti firmware on them and they are tweaked to deliver longer distances (with lower bandwidth) than, say, a Ubiquiti PicoStation. If you have questions, please feel free to get in touch with me personally. We kinda ran into the opposite of "aspirational advertising" - I had wanted to say they'd go 500 yards to a laptop or 1 mile between Hubs, which I thought was still somewhat unbelievable. The truth, however, is that we're still understating the performance a little - one of our beta testers has a link over 2 miles (between a 60' tower and a 60' grain leg, over nothing but corn).

Note that the goal of this system is to create a very large wireless LAN. It's NOT a point-to-point system - we suggest Ubiquiti NanoBridge M5 or AirGrid M5 devices for point-to-point links. They're a little hard to set up (the first few times you do it), but they work great. That's what I would use for a 5 mile "shot."

I hope that clears up any misconceptions about the AyrMesh system, but I will note that this probably belongs in the "Home Networking" area, not in the "WISP forum." Please feel free to contact us with any questions.

-Bill Moffitt, Ayrstone


DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
reply to wirelessdog

said by wirelessdog:

Do you have line of site?

Yes/No...there are two different ways to accomplish. In these two cases below, there is line of sight, as stated.

1. Use local WiMax WISP, then its point to point

2. Use AyrMesh Hub at Farm, with another Hub at a pinch less than two miles, then another hub at my place.

matthopp

join:2009-05-14
reply to Ayrstone

said by Ayrstone :

And WHT, yes, you really can make them work at these distances. The Hubs are built by Ubiquiti, but we're NOT running Ubiquiti firmware on them and they are tweaked to deliver longer distances (with lower bandwidth) than, say, a Ubiquiti PicoStation.

Wait... so if the radio breaks how do I RMA it? Loading other software voids the Ubiquiti warranty.


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
reply to DrStrangLov

said by DrStrangLov:

1. Use local WiMax WISP, then its point to point

Oh yeah..Lot's of those around. They are just every where.


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
reply to Ayrstone

said by Ayrstone :

The truth, however, is that we're still understating the performance a little - one of our beta testers has a link over 2 miles (between a 60' tower and a 60' grain leg, over nothing but corn).

Let me help you with trying to understand the performance.

There are times you can certainly get that kind of coverage from an elevated location over clear ground.

Let me offer some much better examples.

said by WHT :
From history, it is well known that a street level laptop or smartphone can use the AP up to 500 feet to 1,500 feet.

It will very likely work up to 500 feet.
It might work past 500 feet, or it might not.
It might work up to 1,500 feet, or it might not.
It will very unlikely work past 1,500 feet.

This is all assuming you have a clear line of sight (no trees or buildings in the way), and outdoors. If indoors, you will be very lucky to get 500 feet.

Example - Where customer is outside, like in a park, and you can see the AP with nothing in the way.

Less than 100 feet, you will have have good signal.
From 100 feet to 500 feet, you will very likely have good signal.
From 500 feet to 1,000 feet, you will likely have good signal.
From 1,000 feet to 1,500 feet, you might have good signal.
Over 1,500 feet and it will *likely not work*.

If there are trees in the way, you may get one half of the above distances.
If there is a building in the way, you may get one tenth of the above distances.
If you are inside, you may get one tenth of the above distances.
If you have a smartphone, you may get one half of the above distances.

rconaway8

join:2005-11-10
Phoenix, AZ

Please explain the statement "... they are tweaked to deliver longer distances". The people here are pretty knowledgeable. How is this accomplished without changing the channel size?

As for your 2 mile range, I've got 1 mile links with omni's at 5GHz at roughly -68dBm if I remember right. I can see getting 2 miles at reduced bandwidth rates and if you crank up the power. Personally my record is 1.2 miles to a laptop at 2Mbps on from a Vivato AP with a wave-guide 100 degree sector antenna on a roof to my laptop with a Cisco PCMCIA 802.11b card while sitting in a Jack-in-the-Box.