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FF4m3

@rr.com

Microsoft STALKS YOU Even More Than Supermarkets Do

From The Register:

Web-tracking is rife on technology vendor websites, with Microsoft among the worst offenders. Tech sites serve up even more trackers than the average online retailer, say browser privacy plug-in devs.



Dr Tweak

join:2004-09-23
Chesapeake, VA

And this is new news?.... if you are online you are tracked... period.

It's how they make their money, it's the life in the tech age.



Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:12

 

Thats why blocking THIRD PARTY COOKIES is so important now!! (Actually blocking ALL COOKIES would be better but some sites wont "hold your login" without a cookie (You will still be logged in but your browser wont be synced so it will keep logging out))



Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to FF4m3

Re: Microsoft STALKS YOU Even More Than Supermarkets Do

So....the news here is that web-sites are using tracking technology? Wonder if that Y2K thing scheduled to happen in a couple years will amount to much?



FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to Dr Tweak

said by Dr Tweak:

And this is new news?

It's news because Microsoft itself claims to offer tracking protection.

Does Microsoft offer its own users protection from tracking by Microsoft?


Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:12

 

They want you to THINK THEY DO!!!!!!


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Dr Tweak

Re: Microsoft STALKS YOU Even More Than Supermarkets Do

said by Dr Tweak:

And this is new news?.... if you are online you are tracked... period.

It's how they make their money, it's the life in the tech age.

You don't have to be tracked. If you are tracked it is because you allow it.

Of course, if you have Windows 8 you are in Microsoft tracking hell and no way out. Avoid Windows 8.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


carpetshark3
Premium
join:2004-02-12
Idledale, CO
Reviews:
·CenturyLink

They don't make any money if you ignore everything. Flash an ad in my face, I ignore it. I get newsletters from companies I do want to deal with, and find other companies recommended and discussed in forums like these.

I feel that for every ad I ignore, I'm costing them the time and money it takes to put the ad in front of me. I block as many as I can, and if feeling sarcastic, can usually write a rather nasty parody of the ad to email to friends.



mackey
Premium
join:2007-08-20
kudos:12
reply to Dude111

Re:  

said by Dude111:

Actually blocking ALL COOKIES would be better but some sites wont "hold your login" without a cookie

And some (*cough* target.com *cough*) won't let you use the site at all without both cookies and allowing their tracking crap. I actually don't have a problem with 1st party cookies, but even with them enabled the site displays nothing but an "Oops.. You need cookies enabled!" message with the Ghostery plug-in running.

/M

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

Yep. I called Target and complained about that.



carpetshark3
Premium
join:2004-02-12
Idledale, CO

I'll enable, then close FX when I'm done. I have FX set to delete all crap on exit.

Reopen the browser or change to Opera and keep going. So cookies really didn't to them any good. They can't track from a different browser.



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to Mele20

Re: Microsoft STALKS YOU Even More Than Supermarkets Do

said by Mele20:

You don't have to be tracked. If you are tracked it is because you allow it.

So remind me ... what happens if I let them track me?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:12

 

You should really value AS MUCH PRIVACY AS YOU CAN STILL ATTAIN Norm!!



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

said by Dude111:

You should really value AS MUCH PRIVACY AS YOU CAN STILL ATTAIN Norm!!

That is not an answer. My question stands ... what happens if I let them track me?

And why the informal familiarity?


ashrc4
Premium
join:2009-02-06
australia
reply to FF4m3

Re: Microsoft STALKS YOU Even More Than Supermarkets Do

The article is about tracking predominately on a per site basis.
Not the same as supermarkets loyalty card tracking unless you do it online also.

said by Ian:

So....the news here is that web-sites are using tracking technology? Wonder if that Y2K thing scheduled to happen in a couple years will amount to much?

I think all our personal info (approx. 5 billion online) is going for about 5$ per head at present. If i was asked for how much i thought my private info their going to have is worth and to whom they want to SHARE IT WITH......more than they could afford would be my answer.
--
Paradigm Shift beta test pilot. "Dying to defend one's small piece of suburb...Give me something global...STAT!


goalieskates
Premium
join:2004-09-12
land of big
reply to NormanS

Re:  

said by NormanS:

That is not an answer. My question stands ... what happens if I let them track me?

Short answer: You wind up in various databases beyond theirs as they monetize their investment, for purposes having nothing to do with advertising. And down the road you face repercussions you can't explain as judgments (which could well be faulty) are made.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
reply to NormanS

said by NormanS:

That is not an answer. My question stands ... what happens if I let them track me?

Realistically? In most cases, you get ads targeted to you more specific to your tastes (or they try to). Whether they know 1,000 useless facts about your life or not, you're number 170,000,000 in their database, and likely not that interesting.

I happen to run Firefox, with Adblock plus, DNT+ and Ghostery so as not to be tracked. In reality, if I didn't, the only difference I'd likely EVER actually encounter or notice would be ads that I'd ignore.

But it could theoretically get a little more intrusive depending on who is tracking and why.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to goalieskates

said by goalieskates:

Short answer: You wind up in various databases beyond theirs as they monetize their investment, for purposes having nothing to do with advertising.

Then maybe it shouldn't matter, because my tastes don't match their offerings; so they've wasted their money on my data?

And down the road you face repercussions you can't explain as judgments (which could well be faulty) are made.

I suppose a propensity to visit offshore sites might raise a few eyebrows, but blocking tracking cookies won't mask my surfing habits from the NSA eyes on the Tier 1 carrier networks.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3

said by NormanS:

I suppose a propensity to visit offshore sites might raise a few eyebrows, but blocking tracking cookies won't mask my surfing habits from the NSA eyes on the Tier 1 carrier networks.

I would agree that if you're doing something that would be of interest to a 3-letter agency, tracking cookies and Viagra ads aren't your biggest concern.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


nwrickert
sand groper
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join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

1 recommendation

reply to Dude111

Drop the paranoia

said by Dude111:

Thats why blocking THIRD PARTY COOKIES is so important now!! (Actually blocking ALL COOKIES would be better but some sites wont "hold your login" without a cookie (You will still be logged in but your browser wont be synced so it will keep logging out))

Get real.

If they can tell that you are logged in, they can track you. It does not matter whether they use your IP, a cookie, or a web session ID. If you can login, they have a database entry for you, and whatever method they use to determine that you are logged in is sufficient for them to be able build a dossier on what you do.

If you are going to login to a site, you might as well allow them to set a site cookie.
--
AT&T Uverse; Zyxel NBG334W router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.2; firefox 17.0

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to NormanS

Re: Microsoft STALKS YOU Even More Than Supermarkets Do

said by NormanS:

So remind me ... what happens if I let them track me?

They sell your data, get money from that sell and invest that money into that becoming profitable business - tracking people... Do you want that?

It's like getting spam - if you want to get it more, click on links they give you in spam...

In other words - think about what are you doing BEFORE you're doing it. Or others may do it in "your behalf" and you may not like what you're going to get
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Another vague response. While it is galling to think that I am not getting a cut of the profit from selling my data, just what percentage could I expect? They make money on the aggregate data; my cut would probably be $0.05 per month. And its not like they are stealing nickels out of my pocket.

Spam is a whole subject in its own right, but has no bearing on tracking; other than the spammers can track spam readers ... maybe.

Others will do it on my behalf, and there is precious little I can do to prevent it. I have been forged in e-mail, and in the Usenet. The only way I could have mitigated those forgeries would have been to not use e-mail and not post to the Usenet.

If I had the discipline to successfully impersonate another person, I could probably easily avoid online trackers; or at least deflect them in a direction I desire. But I don't feel like spending my entire online experience in a state of "Condition Red". It is psychologically exhausting; and with one mistake it is, "Game Over".
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum



Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:12
reply to FF4m3

 

said by goalieskates :
Short answer: You wind up in various databases beyond theirs as they monetize their investment, for purposes having nothing to do with advertising. And down the road you face repercussions you can't explain as judgments (which could well be faulty) are made.
Exactly and who would WILLINGLY allow this to happen?

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to NormanS

Re: Microsoft STALKS YOU Even More Than Supermarkets Do

You don't get it, do you?

You're feeding your tracker. Nothing will stop them in their intrusiveness and trashing you in the process, but you...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...



Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3

said by OZO:

You don't get it, do you?

You're feeding your tracker. Nothing will stop them in their intrusiveness and trashing you in the process, but you...

I think he DOES get it. I don't particularly like Microsoft's business practices either, but the idea that by visiting one of their sites I'm going to get "trashed" is firmly in the tin-foil-reflector-beanie realm.

Like I said, in all likelihood, if someone chooses to browse in a way that MSN or whomever likes, all they're really going to get is targeted ads. If that bothers a person, lots they can do to avoid it. But it might not particularly bother some people. To each their own.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


goalieskates
Premium
join:2004-09-12
land of big

1 recommendation

reply to NormanS

Re:  

said by NormanS:

said by goalieskates:

Short answer: You wind up in various databases beyond theirs as they monetize their investment, for purposes having nothing to do with advertising.

Then maybe it shouldn't matter, because my tastes don't match their offerings; so they've wasted their money on my data?

And down the road you face repercussions you can't explain as judgments (which could well be faulty) are made.

I suppose a propensity to visit offshore sites might raise a few eyebrows, but blocking tracking cookies won't mask my surfing habits from the NSA eyes on the Tier 1 carrier networks.

Or more realistically, those databases you wind up in have nothing to do with advertising at all, nor do those repercussions.

Lots of people do profiling, to decide if you're credit-worthy or hireable or deserve a security clearance or any number of other things. The stated purpose for the tracking may be targeted advertising, but the uses for the data aren't limited to that. If you search 400 times over the course of a year or two for related terms, that says something about you, and it doesn't have to be red shoes.

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

said by goalieskates:

The stated purpose for the tracking may be targeted advertising, but the uses for the data aren't limited to that.

Good point. Not many can see that...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to goalieskates

said by goalieskates:

Lots of people do profiling, to decide if you're credit-worthy or hireable or deserve a security clearance or any number of other things. The stated purpose for the tracking may be targeted advertising, but the uses for the data aren't limited to that. If you search 400 times over the course of a year or two for related terms, that says something about you, and it doesn't have to be red shoes.

I've had a security clearance (for as long as I needed it; only revoked for lack of need). I have credit. I have even been qualified to buy a surplus U.S. battle rifle.

I have been investigated for a major crime; once. I had evidence contradicting the complainant's claim. You could say that I retained a tracker offered by the complainant, which saved my bacon one year.

I have run some dicey searches; but have not been barred from any government benefit; save one, which is rejected 100% of the time. Cited reason made me, and some others I showed it to, as the cited reason was obviously in error.

So the trackers know I like kawaii neko-mimi musume. How is that going to bite me in the butt; this isn't the eve of 07 DEC 41!

I could spend hours tweaking and adjusting the tracker foiling applications; constantly, self-destructively on edge that somebody might find something to hold against me. But if they are going to connect my online surfing habits with my real world self, they are going to need to hire a gumshoe to track my meatspace persona.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3

1 edit
reply to NormanS

As someone who used to live on page one of the 3 letter agencies tracking lists, I think NormanS is onto something here that well frankly I bought into a long time ago. Who cares what they do, all that really matters is what I do. If someone were to show me a bunch of ads for stuff that I was interested in, great, either I'm still looking, I've bought something and no longer care, or I've decided not to buy it, the point is 'me', and I'm in control regardless of what they show me and I think that is what NormanS is doing. Having to depend on outside sources to control my spending habits etc, is a carved in stone plan for debt overload and failure regardless if you use the internet or not.

When I look at my credit card and bank statements, I've never seen Bill Gates in there without me explicitly buying something from them, or anyone else and so I think that in this connected world that the best place for 'watching stuff' is my statements and frankly my budget (if I don't have the up front whip out cash, I'm not interested in buying, I might be researching to find out what something costs so I can decide if I need it that bad and if so adjusting my savings in my budget accordingly to purchase it at some point in the future when I can pay for it). I think that the current bullsh*t age of debt consumerism is thankfully going bye-bye because well frankly people/countries just can't afford anymore debt and so if ads helps me find the best product for the best price for stuff that I actually need, then its almost a service, otherwise I ignore it (of course a big part about advertising is not getting you to buy something now, but brand familiarization so when you do buy something, you buy their product)

In short I don't lose any sleep over cookies and if I was to go somewhere that I don't want tracked back to my system, well that is what InPrivate browsing, throw away virtual systems, zombie chains, etc are for

Blake

Sheryl Crow nailed it with:

It's not having what you want
It's wanting what you've got
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool



Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
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Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

2 recommendations

reply to NormanS

said by NormanS:

... I've had a security clearance (for as long as I needed it; only revoked for lack of need). I have credit...

Like you, I've been well up on the grid for longer than I can remember... but that was largely by my own choice, for specific reasons of mutual benefit to me and the gum'int, and I prefer to keep it that way.

With respect to businesses and buying preferences, I want my personal privacy respected. When I go into a bricks-and-mortar store to shop, I really don't want a clerk (or anyone else) following me around like a puppy dog, watching closely over my shoulder at everything I browse through and writing it all down on a clipboard to consult with their management about what to try to sell me. If I need help, I'll ask; if I want to be shown the latest whatever, I'll ask; if I want to know whatever might be on sale, I'll ask... otherwise, it's none of their business.

Much of my shopping is from a mental, ongoing list in which I price-shop for bargains on particular products in which I'm currently interested. I'm rarely, if ever, interested in whatever the store clerk (or the store puppy dog) receives a sales bonus for pushing onto customers who show any interest in a particular category of products. And I certainly don't want my shopping interests from today reflected in what gets shoved at me the next time I enter that or some other store in the future. To me, it's all part of preserving my privacy.

Some of us simply want to be left alone to do our own thing, free of manipulation, "tailoring", or interference. So we also avoid cookies, apart from the bare minimum necessary to do some basic site viewing. When did it become a tin-hat issue if people simply want to be largely left alone unless they ask otherwise? I was always taught that's an inherent part of a person's privacy.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville