ok a strange topic: Dissolving Grandma. Part Deux - Canadian Chat

Author	All Replies
peterboro Avatars are for posers Premium join:2006-11-03 Peterborough, ON	reply to Gone Re: ok a strange topic: Dissolving Grandma. Part Deux said by Gone: said by Ian: But I think in what way a person wants their body disposed of ought to be up to them to decide People who want to dictate their own funeral and burial/cremation/whatever plans are selfish on a level to which I simply cannot comprehend. Funerals and interment aren't for the person who died. They're for the people left behind. Sounds like you come from some sort of dysfunctional family otherwise you would see both sides of this issue.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-29 23:32:04 ·
Gone Premium join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON kudos:3 Reviews: ·Start Communicat..	said by peterboro: Sounds like you come from some sort of dysfunctional family otherwise you would see both sides of this issue. There is no other side to see. If you see fit to dictate what music is played, what passages are read and what the guest list reads to your own funeral, you are doing nothing more than attempting to extend your own narcissism and control issues beyond the grave. A funeral may be about you, but it's not for you. It's one thing to ensure that expenses are paid as the idea of burdening my family with having to pay for a funeral should something happen to me is wholly unappealing, but beyond that how my family decides to celebrate my life after I'm gone is their choice, not mine. I won't be there to care, and you won't be there to care about what goes on at yours, either.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-29 23:51:04 ·

jaberi join:2010-08-13	reply to so yeah sure, just no one better pour any drano down on me..and flush three times if necessary... ok so the body is not at the interment but the spirit lives on or so they say, i'm always afraid that spirit haunting me down if i don't respect the persons wishes.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 02:22:22 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	reply to hm said by hm : said by Gone: Funerals and interment aren't for the person who died. They're for the people left behind. Peoples wishes (the dead people) should come first. This is only respect, no? Nope. In Ontario, at least, it is the estate executor who makes those decisions, not the deceased, even in the case of a pre-arrangement. -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 06:49:24 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	reply to Juggernaut said by Juggernaut: The executor or executrix, has a legal obligation to follow the will (desires) of the deceased. No, they do not. And I have seen that happen. Family member has laid out their wishes. Estate executor comes in and does a "ship and burn" and takes the ashes. Not a legal problem, as they are the estate executor. And the funeral home has to refund to the estate any funds left over from expenses. -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 06:52:39 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	reply to Ian said by Ian: said by jaberi: Ian, or anyone ...... how long after death is the will open to be settled?..what's the probate thing mean? I'm no expert, but I think it's wildly dependent on the complexity of the estate and whether or not anything is contested or not. For example, if your estate is 100% cash, quickly. If its a web of complex securities and real estate partnerships over 6 continents, years. Again, you are sadly mistaken. Having been the executor of a simple estate, it took ten months to settle it. The most difficult part was dealing with the CRA. Two final tax returns have to be filed; the tax return for the year of death and once the Notice of Assessment has been received, the Final return has to be filed. The CRA can take months to clear a Final return (my CA says allow 5-6 months). -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 06:57:09 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	reply to Gone said by Gone: said by peterboro: Sounds like you come from some sort of dysfunctional family otherwise you would see both sides of this issue. There is no other side to see. If you see fit to dictate what music is played, what passages are read and what the guest list reads to your own funeral, you are doing nothing more than attempting to extend your own narcissism and control issues beyond the grave. A funeral may be about you, but it's not for you. It's one thing to ensure that expenses are paid as the idea of burdening my family with having to pay for a funeral should something happen to me is wholly unappealing, but beyond that how my family decides to celebrate my life after I'm gone is their choice, not mine. I won't be there to care, and you won't be there to care about what goes on at yours, either. While that is a bit harsh, it is factually correct. Having met with hundreds of families over the years to plan a funeral, they may have a list of Mom's last wishes in hand, but they may, and usually do overlay their own tastes. I remember on family who simply refused mom's music choices, preferring much more upbeat music than she had chosen. The hardest ones are folks who say "no funeral" but the family wants to gather to grieve. Part of my work is to help them do exactly that. -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 07:03:51 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	reply to jaberi said by jaberi: aren't executors mostly family members, how common is it for people choosing an executor outside their family? Often a lawyer is executor. It's not uncommon. -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 07:05:43 ·
hm @videotron.ca	reply to Gone said by Gone: There is no other side to see. Nothing else need to be said. I don't think anything else had to be said after this, really: said by Gone: said by hm : Peoples wishes (the dead people) should come first. This is only respect, no? Respect for what, exactly?
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 07:39:15 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	said by hm : said by Gone: There is no other side to see. Nothing else need to be said. I don't think anything else had to be said after this, really: said by Gone: said by hm : Peoples wishes (the dead people) should come first. This is only respect, no? Respect for what, exactly? Estate matters are a matter of law, not "respect". -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 07:52:07 ·
peterboro Avatars are for posers Premium join:2006-11-03 Peterborough, ON	reply to DKS said by DKS: said by Juggernaut: The executor or executrix, has a legal obligation to follow the will (desires) of the deceased. No, they do not. And I have seen that happen. Family member has laid out their wishes. Estate executor comes in and does a "ship and burn" and takes the ashes. Not a legal problem, as they are the estate executor. And the funeral home has to refund to the estate any funds left over from expenses. I would assume that what the deceased having paid for services in advance and the funeral home in receipt of such would fulfil be the foundation of a contract in common law. You are suggesting that one party, the deceased estate, can renege on the contract?
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 08:32:12 ·
hm @videotron.ca	reply to DKS said by DKS: said by hm : said by Gone: Funerals and interment aren't for the person who died. They're for the people left behind. Peoples wishes (the dead people) should come first. This is only respect, no? Nope. In Ontario, at least, it is the estate executor who makes those decisions, not the deceased, even in the case of a pre-arrangement. In Ontario is the key word. Canada is not Ontario (which may come as a shock to some here). Some fine differences in will and estates between Ontario and Quebec and other prov's. In some prov's, like Quebec, contents of the will take precedence. And the law is setup to "respect" that.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 08:55:30 ·
Gone Premium join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON kudos:3 Reviews: ·Start Communicat.. 2 edits	reply to peterboro There are specific laws in Ontario that allow the executor or administrator of an estate in Ontario to cancel pre-arranged contracts for funeral and internment services. The executor of an estate, quite literally, has the final say on matters such as this, not the person who's died.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 08:56:56 ·
Gone Premium join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON kudos:3 Reviews: ·Start Communicat..	reply to hm said by hm : In Ontario is the key word. Canada is not Ontario (which may come as a shock to some here). Some fine differences in will and estates between Ontario and Quebec and other prov's. There are only two provinces that have different laws, and those two provinces do not form the majority of the Canadian population. What Quebec does, in the context of this discussion about a company based out of Sask, is irrelevant.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 09:07:25 ·
peterboro Avatars are for posers Premium join:2006-11-03 Peterborough, ON	reply to Gone said by Gone: said by peterboro: I would assume that what the deceased having paid for services in advance and the funeral home in receipt of such would fulfil be the foundation of a contract in common law. You are suggesting that one party, the deceased estate, can renege on the contract? There are legal provisions and case law specific to the issue of contracts for funeral and internment services that allow them to be broken by the executor of an estate in Ontario. Interesting that there is statutory or regulatory relief from contractual obligations. I will need to read these in order to plan my escape from the planet, or rearrangement of carbon based particles, as the case may be. Citation?
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 09:09:29 ·
Gone Premium join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON kudos:3 Reviews: ·Start Communicat..	said by peterboro: Citation? It was cited in the same document that Ian and I posted earlier in this discussion. They specifically singled out Ontario on that issue.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 09:14:48 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	reply to peterboro said by peterboro: said by DKS: said by Juggernaut: The executor or executrix, has a legal obligation to follow the will (desires) of the deceased. No, they do not. And I have seen that happen. Family member has laid out their wishes. Estate executor comes in and does a "ship and burn" and takes the ashes. Not a legal problem, as they are the estate executor. And the funeral home has to refund to the estate any funds left over from expenses. I would assume that what the deceased having paid for services in advance and the funeral home in receipt of such would fulfil be the foundation of a contract in common law. You are suggesting that one party, the deceased estate, can renege on the contract? The contract is simply a monetary deposit. Preferences are indicated, such as range of price of services, but because prices of services can change over the years, no specific services are contracted. Interest is paid on the money deposited and it accumulates with the deposit. The deposits are insured in Ontario. Such contracts can also be transferred without penalty, usually. -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 09:24:56 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	reply to hm said by hm : In Ontario is the key word. Canada is not Ontario (which may come as a shock to some here). Some fine differences in will and estates between Ontario and Quebec and other prov's. In some prov's, like Quebec, contents of the will take precedence. And the law is setup to "respect" that. And so what is law in Quebec is not the law in the rest of Canada. -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 09:25:44 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	reply to peterboro said by peterboro: said by Gone: said by peterboro: I would assume that what the deceased having paid for services in advance and the funeral home in receipt of such would fulfil be the foundation of a contract in common law. You are suggesting that one party, the deceased estate, can renege on the contract? There are legal provisions and case law specific to the issue of contracts for funeral and internment services that allow them to be broken by the executor of an estate in Ontario. Interesting that there is statutory or regulatory relief from contractual obligations. I will need to read these in order to plan my escape from the planet, or rearrangement of carbon based particles, as the case may be. Citation? There is no contractual obligation in the way you are thinking. Pre-paid funeral arrangements are more like a savings account than a binding contract. The funeral home is the receipt of deposit. -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 09:27:20 ·
Gone Premium join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON kudos:3 Reviews: ·Start Communicat..	reply to DKS said by DKS: And so what is law in Quebec is not the law in the rest of Canada. It is also worth pointing out that while BC allows someone to will the way they want their remains disposed of, the funeral arrangements are still up to the administrator of the estate. Quebec is the odd one out, as they allow someone to will their funeral preferences as well as disposal. That seems very odd if you ask me, as financial means can change over the years and put a family into a position of hardship if bound by a will to the way they must perform a funeral service. Doesn't surprise me that other provinces don't make such requests binding.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 09:37:49 ·

O Canada! > Canadian > Canadian Chat > ok a strange topic: Dissolving Grandma. Part Deux

Re: ok a strange topic: Dissolving Grandma. Part Deux