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shadedpixel

join:2012-11-29

1 edit

[Newsgroups] Good DMCA Free Usenet Provider?

Hi, I'm looking into Usenet again, I used it around two years ago before switching to a VPN. The main reason I stopped using Usenet is because A LOT of things had been taken down due to DMCA. I and compelled to come back to Usenet because of the speeds. So are there any good Usenet providers out of the DMCA's reach (dutch?)? Im having trouble finding good options because of PayPal cutting off payment services to a lot of providers.

Thanks in advance!

Also, PM's are fine


swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
No one is above DMCA removals.


nntp user

@iinet.net.au
reply to shadedpixel
Testing ;

News servers that have been tested impacted by DCMA requests, large amount of the reviews say so and so forth news server hasn't been affected in the past 2 years. Most of this is bs. here is what tested and looking for others to verify / support or deny.

Takedowns;
Giganews = impacted.
Easynews = impacted.
us/eunews.usenetnow(off blocknews) = impacted.
us/eu...astraweb = impacted.

If someone can post 100% sure nntp servers that aren't impacted outside US, someone test and another verify that would be good.

zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to shadedpixel
I think the other problem is that if there are any that aren't having takedowns, no one wants to post it.

Posting it in on a public forum easily searchable on google is just moronic.

Surely someones going to realize there's money now in setting up a Usenet service outside of the US and the EU?

shadedpixel

join:2012-11-29
reply to swintec
I meant dutch providers in the Netherlands, etc.


usenet user

@eastlink.ca
reply to swintec
I agree with swintec. I have said this in a forum I go into daily. They seem to think the EU servers are free of dmca removals. I siad it is only a matter of time. They are hitting the big guys first and they WILL get to the little guys. They seemed to think I was wrong. Its not like the dmca has to go out of their way to affect the servers. They already have the software that allows them to take stuff down. Just a matter of getting it to the server. You may get another month...2 months...6 months...use but dmca will eventually affect all usenet.

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
reply to shadedpixel
Retention advertised by these Usenet providers may go by the wayside as a benefit of getting a premium provider soon with these DMCA take downs happening en masse. The days of a file being on server for a few years may be coming to an end at least for the ones that matter. Gotta get your files quickly nowadays.

citycfai

join:2012-06-14
sandman1, could you please PM me the NL provider you are currently on? Thanks a lot.

zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to usenet user
said by usenet user :

I agree with swintec. I have said this in a forum I go into daily. They seem to think the EU servers are free of dmca removals. I siad it is only a matter of time. They are hitting the big guys first and they WILL get to the little guys. They seemed to think I was wrong. Its not like the dmca has to go out of their way to affect the servers. They already have the software that allows them to take stuff down. Just a matter of getting it to the server. You may get another month...2 months...6 months...use but dmca will eventually affect all usenet.

I would think it would make sense for Usenet providers to move their servers outside the jurisdictions of North America or the EU? (Maybe into some Eastern Euro countries that aren't a part of the EU?). That's suppose to be the thing about the internet. If somethings illegal, movie it to a country where it isn't illegal?

So I think people are hoping there are some usenet providers outside of the US and EU that aren't affected. I'm not aware of any, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few popped up in the not too distant future.


usenet user

@eastlink.ca
Zod5000: Is there a country where torrents are still legal? I realize torrents themself are not illegal but I meant torrent sites that contain/link copyrighted material. There are none that I know of. As long as the site stays small they seem to be left alone for now. But as soon as they become popular, they don't take long to get shut down. If those torrent site get shut down everywhere why would you think usenet is immune? I know of one larger torrent site still running but I also know that dmca members are very active in that site. I mentioned that to an admin of that site and I ended up banned from the site for a while. I assume they didn't want me spreading the word.


swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS

1 recommendation

reply to zod5000
said by zod5000:

I would think it would make sense for Usenet providers to move their servers outside the jurisdictions of North America or the EU? (Maybe into some Eastern Euro countries that aren't a part of the EU?). That's suppose to be the thing about the internet. If somethings illegal, movie it to a country where it isn't illegal?

That could work. However, customers want several things. Crazy high retention. The ability to max out their 1 gigabit connection using 2 connections in their newsreaders all for the price of 2 cups of coffee a month, which must be able to be paid for using a convenient payment method (CC or paypal). Your idea did not take any of this into consideration.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts

zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
said by swintec:

said by zod5000:

I would think it would make sense for Usenet providers to move their servers outside the jurisdictions of North America or the EU? (Maybe into some Eastern Euro countries that aren't a part of the EU?). That's suppose to be the thing about the internet. If somethings illegal, movie it to a country where it isn't illegal?

That could work. However, customers want several things. Crazy high retention. The ability to max out their 1 gigabit connection using 2 connections in their newsreaders all for the price of 2 cups of coffee a month, which must be able to be paid for using a convenient payment method (CC or paypal). Your idea did not take any of this into consideration.

It did. If your choice is a server being dmca'd left right an centre and can barely hold a file for 24 hours but can operate at 50mbps and has an easy way to pay. Alternatively you can get a slower server, that has a year retention, no dmca, maybe pulls out 30mbps, and has a difficult payment process.. what would you choose?

DMCA'd servers are going to get close to useless if the trend keeps up. I think people would trade off for sketchy over fast.


usenet user

@eastlink.ca
zod5000 I hope your right. But honestly, I don't see it happening. I keep referring back to torrents because we have already been there. When torrent sites started going down everyone was saying the same thing as your are now. We need a good site in a country where they don't care about the mpaa and the riaa. We need a site in Norway or Denmark or Sweden, etc. Well as we all know those big sites went down to (they don't care about the little sites yet, they want the big ones first). I feel the same would happen to these 'sketchy' sites to. It would be nice to know I am wrong but I guess only time will tell.

bluedyedvd

join:2007-04-15
Overland Park, KS
reply to shadedpixel
Jesus what a bunch of chicken littlles in here. These companies that run the crawlers have a limited amount of resources they can't dmca everything off of usenet. example the batman movies a couple months ago stuff would get taken down in a matter of minutes now i have no problem finding it. You don't think the posters can adapt by using coded filenames thats what was so great about mysterbin it would look in archive not just the filename and subject.

bluedyedvd

join:2007-04-15
Overland Park, KS
reply to swintec
swintec with all these people in here acting like this is the end of usenet can you tell us are you seeing a exodus of users from your service?


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19

1 recommendation

reply to swintec
said by swintec:

That could work. However, customers want several things. Crazy high retention. The ability to max out their 1 gigabit connection using 2 connections in their newsreaders all for the price of 2 cups of coffee a month, which must be able to be paid for using a convenient payment method (CC or paypal). Your idea did not take any of this into consideration.

I don't need anything more than 30-90 days retention.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
reply to shadedpixel
The reason all of these Euro servers are in the NL is because they have the infrastructure/bandwidth setup there. The NL-IX and AMS-IX are where these Usenet providers hook into and get their bandwidth. NL-IX even offers a service just for Usenet companies called NextFeed, »www.nl-ix.net/solutions/usenet-peering/, that allows all of these servers to share info locally at high speeds and low latency. So that is why most are out of the NL in the first place.

With that said, there are some that do not hook into the NL Internet Exchanges and that are located in different countries but I won't mention them here. People can do their own research just like I did and find what I am talking about.

Lastly, the Eastern Euro countries are installing fiber at a breakneck pace. Maybe in the future we could see a migration from the NL, who knows.


swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS
reply to bluedyedvd
said by bluedyedvd:

swintec with all these people in here acting like this is the end of usenet can you tell us are you seeing a exodus of users from your service?

No mass exodus.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
said by swintec:

said by bluedyedvd:

swintec with all these people in here acting like this is the end of usenet can you tell us are you seeing a exodus of users from your service?

No mass exodus.

What else would you say.

No business is going to say people are leaving them en masse. But I think Astraweb have the most subscribers jumping ship. I see posts everywhere about it. Some people can't leave them but want to because of signing on for a year or so. That and usually these things don't start showing up until a few quarters down the road.

bluedyedvd

join:2007-04-15
Overland Park, KS
cyber lockers never have any takedowns torrents always have the file at full speed. everything has issues when i see nsp stop rising retention or going out business then i will worry

bluedyedvd

join:2007-04-15
Overland Park, KS

1 edit
reply to sandman_1
said by sandman_1:

said by swintec:

said by bluedyedvd:

swintec with all these people in here acting like this is the end of usenet can you tell us are you seeing a exodus of users from your service?

No mass exodus.

What else would you say.

No business is going to say people are leaving them en masse. But I think Astraweb have the most subscribers jumping ship. I see posts everywhere about it. Some people can't leave them but want to because of signing on for a year or so. That and usually these things don't start showing up until a few quarters down the road.

if there that much money to made someone will come along to fill the demand


swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS
reply to sandman_1
said by sandman_1:

What else would you say.

id have no problem saying one way or the other. i really dont have anything to lose either way by admitting it, if it were true. plus i think the information would be valuable to the community. im not a cable or telco that needs to please stockholders.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to zod5000
said by zod5000:

said by usenet user :

I agree with swintec. I have said this in a forum I go into daily. They seem to think the EU servers are free of dmca removals. I siad it is only a matter of time. They are hitting the big guys first and they WILL get to the little guys. They seemed to think I was wrong. Its not like the dmca has to go out of their way to affect the servers. They already have the software that allows them to take stuff down. Just a matter of getting it to the server. You may get another month...2 months...6 months...use but dmca will eventually affect all usenet.

I would think it would make sense for Usenet providers to move their servers outside the jurisdictions of North America or the EU? (Maybe into some Eastern Euro countries that aren't a part of the EU?). That's suppose to be the thing about the internet. If somethings illegal, movie it to a country where it isn't illegal?

So I think people are hoping there are some usenet providers outside of the US and EU that aren't affected. I'm not aware of any, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few popped up in the not too distant future.

will never ever happen. even if you move all your servers outside the US the government will just sue you and say being as you live in the US you are still subject to US law. I mean I can't host a child porn site then get busted and say well the severs are not in the US your ass is still going to jail.

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
reply to swintec
said by swintec:

said by sandman_1:

What else would you say.

id have no problem saying one way or the other. i really dont have anything to lose either way by admitting it, if it were true. plus i think the information would be valuable to the community. im not a cable or telco that needs to please stockholders.

Logic follows if you did admit people leaving droves, then new subscribers wouldn't bother signing up seeing this so in effect it would drive more people away from your business.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to bluedyedvd
It was good last night, both Nashville and Arrow 1080p versions were gone from Astra/Newsdemon, but still up on on a server that shall not be named

The logs in Newsleecher are now saying "DMCA removed"

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111

1 recommendation

reply to shadedpixel
People really need to stop giving so much details about this server and that server. By calling out someone's server and saying that the file is still on there or what not, just brings undue attention to that guys server now. The copyright trolls will more than likely pressure that server operator to act more quickly. If something is still up on a server, keep it under wraps or to PMing. Not trying to berate anyone here so don't take it the wrong way.


csiemers

join:2000-09-16
Portland, OR
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to sandman_1
said by sandman_1:

Logic follows if you did admit people leaving droves, then new subscribers wouldn't bother signing up seeing this so in effect it would drive more people away from your business.

Funny, I would think, cool, more bandwidth for me to use!!
--
»www.caryontech.com

zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to TOPDAWG
said by TOPDAWG:

said by zod5000:

said by usenet user :

I agree with swintec. I have said this in a forum I go into daily. They seem to think the EU servers are free of dmca removals. I siad it is only a matter of time. They are hitting the big guys first and they WILL get to the little guys. They seemed to think I was wrong. Its not like the dmca has to go out of their way to affect the servers. They already have the software that allows them to take stuff down. Just a matter of getting it to the server. You may get another month...2 months...6 months...use but dmca will eventually affect all usenet.

I would think it would make sense for Usenet providers to move their servers outside the jurisdictions of North America or the EU? (Maybe into some Eastern Euro countries that aren't a part of the EU?). That's suppose to be the thing about the internet. If somethings illegal, movie it to a country where it isn't illegal?

So I think people are hoping there are some usenet providers outside of the US and EU that aren't affected. I'm not aware of any, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few popped up in the not too distant future.

will never ever happen. even if you move all your servers outside the US the government will just sue you and say being as you live in the US you are still subject to US law. I mean I can't host a child porn site then get busted and say well the severs are not in the US your ass is still going to jail.

I was more thinking the whole operation would be owned/operated outside the EU/US.

I can't remember if the Ukraine is outside the EU or not, but imagine it is, and someone entrepreneur out there decides to start there own Usenet company? All the servers are located there, the business is incorporated there, and they have no physical presence outside of the country.

To me it leaves room for Usenet providers to pop up in Countries that don't have laws like the DMCA. If DMCA'd servers become useless (or close to it) there could be a high demand for it. I don't think the US can go after corporations in other countries that aren't doing anything illegal in their own country?

That's how I think the internet works. There's enough countries out there, that it's legal somewhere. That country now has a competitive advantage and can run in that country.

newster

join:2011-09-26

1 edit
reply to shadedpixel
@sandman_1

I think it's also possible that Swintec may have picked up some Astraweb customers who were looking for a company that actually follows the DMCA law as it's written (rather than wrongly re-interpreting the law in ways it was obviously never intended to be.).

Even with Astraweb, I doubt that more than a small percentage left, even though problems of various sorts were adding up. Some may have left due to the principle of automated takedowns that are never reviewed by human eyes at either end, as well as the related issue of legal posts being wrongly removed just because the title contains the wrong word. There's also Astraweb's technical problems, like the infamous completion range that still exists. The vocal minority is not always representative anyway.

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
Yea I hear ya. But like I said, sometimes you don't see the effect of these thing for at least a few quarters down the road. Gotta remember this stuff only started happening a few months ago and it will only get worse as Mr. so and so gathers more business.