Re: ok a strange topic: Dissolving Grandma. Part Deux

Author	All Replies
Juggernaut Irreverent or irrelevant? Premium join:2006-09-05 Kelowna, BC kudos:2	reply to Gone Re: ok a strange topic: Dissolving Grandma. Part Deux That statement requires a legal citation. I don't buy it. -- I'm not anti-social, I just don't like stupid people.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-29 20:26:53 ·
Gone Premium join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON kudos:3 Reviews: ·Start Communicat..	said by Juggernaut: That statement requires a legal citation. I don't buy it. From the horses mouth, perhaps? said by »www.sse.gov.on.ca/mcs/en/Pages/f···s.aspx#1 : Who has the legal authority to decide what will happen to the body of a deceased person? In order of priority it is: An estate trustee (also called an executor or executrix) who is named in the deceased person's will (or, an administrator appointed by the court) A spouse Adult children. If you are an estate trustee, expect to provide photo ID and proof of your authority (like a will or court order) before you make arrangements. I am sure other provinces in Canada and even states in the US are similar. You can name who you want responsible for the funeral and the handling of the will, but you have no legal authority to dictate exactly how they proceed with those plans.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-29 20:33:17 ·
Gone Premium join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON kudos:3	It's also worth pointing out that by the time a last will is read, the funeral will be long over. In other words - they get to decide, not you.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-29 20:36:43 ·
Juggernaut Irreverent or irrelevant? Premium join:2006-09-05 Kelowna, BC kudos:2	reply to Gone The executor or executrix, has a legal obligation to follow the will (desires) of the deceased. -- I'm not anti-social, I just don't like stupid people.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-29 20:37:07 ·
Gone Premium join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON kudos:3 Reviews: ·Start Communicat..	said by Juggernaut: The executor or executrix, has a legal obligation to follow the will (desires) of the deceased. ... and funeral arrangements are not part of a will, because a will is dealt with weeks - and sometimes months - after a funeral has passed. You can pick an executor you trust and express your wishes to them, but they have the final say. Like I said, they can shoot you off into space and there's nothing you can do from beyond the grave to stop them.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-29 20:44:42 ·
Juggernaut Irreverent or irrelevant? Premium join:2006-09-05 Kelowna, BC kudos:2	Really... I've read my fathers will (he's long gone), and my mothers as well. She's alive right now. I am the executor of her will. My fathers will was opened by a lawyer upon his death, and his wishes were carried out by the executor. The lawyer made sure his final wishes were carried out to the letter. -- I'm not anti-social, I just don't like stupid people.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-29 20:49:58 ·
Gone Premium join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON kudos:3 Reviews: ·Start Communicat..	said by Juggernaut: My fathers will was opened by a lawyer upon his death, and his wishes were carried out by the executor. The lawyer made sure his final wishes were carried out to the letter. Was his lawyer the executor? That's not unheard of. If his lawyer wasn't, he wouldn't have had any legal authority to dictate anything.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-29 20:52:54 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	reply to Juggernaut said by Juggernaut: The executor or executrix, has a legal obligation to follow the will (desires) of the deceased. No, they do not. And I have seen that happen. Family member has laid out their wishes. Estate executor comes in and does a "ship and burn" and takes the ashes. Not a legal problem, as they are the estate executor. And the funeral home has to refund to the estate any funds left over from expenses. -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 06:52:39 ·
peterboro Avatars are for posers Premium join:2006-11-03 Peterborough, ON	said by DKS: said by Juggernaut: The executor or executrix, has a legal obligation to follow the will (desires) of the deceased. No, they do not. And I have seen that happen. Family member has laid out their wishes. Estate executor comes in and does a "ship and burn" and takes the ashes. Not a legal problem, as they are the estate executor. And the funeral home has to refund to the estate any funds left over from expenses. I would assume that what the deceased having paid for services in advance and the funeral home in receipt of such would fulfil be the foundation of a contract in common law. You are suggesting that one party, the deceased estate, can renege on the contract?
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 08:32:12 ·
Gone Premium join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON kudos:3 Reviews: ·Start Communicat.. 2 edits	There are specific laws in Ontario that allow the executor or administrator of an estate in Ontario to cancel pre-arranged contracts for funeral and internment services. The executor of an estate, quite literally, has the final say on matters such as this, not the person who's died.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 08:56:56 ·
peterboro Avatars are for posers Premium join:2006-11-03 Peterborough, ON	said by Gone: said by peterboro: I would assume that what the deceased having paid for services in advance and the funeral home in receipt of such would fulfil be the foundation of a contract in common law. You are suggesting that one party, the deceased estate, can renege on the contract? There are legal provisions and case law specific to the issue of contracts for funeral and internment services that allow them to be broken by the executor of an estate in Ontario. Interesting that there is statutory or regulatory relief from contractual obligations. I will need to read these in order to plan my escape from the planet, or rearrangement of carbon based particles, as the case may be. Citation?
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 09:09:29 ·
Gone Premium join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON kudos:3 Reviews: ·Start Communicat..	said by peterboro: Citation? It was cited in the same document that Ian and I posted earlier in this discussion. They specifically singled out Ontario on that issue.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 09:14:48 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	reply to peterboro said by peterboro: said by DKS: said by Juggernaut: The executor or executrix, has a legal obligation to follow the will (desires) of the deceased. No, they do not. And I have seen that happen. Family member has laid out their wishes. Estate executor comes in and does a "ship and burn" and takes the ashes. Not a legal problem, as they are the estate executor. And the funeral home has to refund to the estate any funds left over from expenses. I would assume that what the deceased having paid for services in advance and the funeral home in receipt of such would fulfil be the foundation of a contract in common law. You are suggesting that one party, the deceased estate, can renege on the contract? The contract is simply a monetary deposit. Preferences are indicated, such as range of price of services, but because prices of services can change over the years, no specific services are contracted. Interest is paid on the money deposited and it accumulates with the deposit. The deposits are insured in Ontario. Such contracts can also be transferred without penalty, usually. -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 09:24:56 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	reply to peterboro said by peterboro: said by Gone: said by peterboro: I would assume that what the deceased having paid for services in advance and the funeral home in receipt of such would fulfil be the foundation of a contract in common law. You are suggesting that one party, the deceased estate, can renege on the contract? There are legal provisions and case law specific to the issue of contracts for funeral and internment services that allow them to be broken by the executor of an estate in Ontario. Interesting that there is statutory or regulatory relief from contractual obligations. I will need to read these in order to plan my escape from the planet, or rearrangement of carbon based particles, as the case may be. Citation? There is no contractual obligation in the way you are thinking. Pre-paid funeral arrangements are more like a savings account than a binding contract. The funeral home is the receipt of deposit. -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 09:27:20 ·
hm @videotron.ca	reply to DKS said by DKS: The contract is simply a monetary deposit. Preferences are indicated, such as range of price of services, but because prices of services can change over the years, no specific services are contracted. Interest is paid on the money deposited and it accumulates with the deposit. The deposits are insured in Ontario. Such contracts can also be transferred without penalty, usually. Yeah, prices change. But in some instances and it's all contract dependent, and prov dependent, in many situations there is a guarantee of what is covered and guaranteed not to change. For example, costs of the viewing, cost of cremation, cost of the vessal (coffin or vase). In one situation I was in everything was covered, except for (and this is the technical term they used), "The opening and closing ceremony", which cost me ~1,000$. That is where they dig the hole and then fill it in. Guess union work isn't covered.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 09:42:39 ·
hm @videotron.ca	said by hm : In one situation I was in everything was covered, except for (and this is the technical term they used), "The opening and closing ceremony", which cost me ~1,000$. That is where they dig the hole and then fill it in. Guess union work isn't covered. OH! I guess in regards to this topic the question must be asked! Will there be a flushing ceremony cost?
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 09:47:57 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	reply to hm said by hm : said by DKS: The contract is simply a monetary deposit. Preferences are indicated, such as range of price of services, but because prices of services can change over the years, no specific services are contracted. Interest is paid on the money deposited and it accumulates with the deposit. The deposits are insured in Ontario. Such contracts can also be transferred without penalty, usually. Yeah, prices change. But in some instances and it's all contract dependent, and prov dependent, in many situations there is a guarantee of what is covered and guaranteed not to change. For example, costs of the viewing, cost of cremation, cost of the vessal (coffin or vase). In one situation I was in everything was covered, except for (and this is the technical term they used), "The opening and closing ceremony", which cost me ~1,000$. That is where they dig the hole and then fill it in. Guess union work isn't covered. Cemetery costs are normally separate from the funeral. That is because in many parts of Canada, funeral homes are not allowed to own cemeteries. And not all cemeteries are unionized. -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 10:51:04 ·
DKS Damn Kidney Stones Premium,ExMod 2002 join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON kudos:2 Reviews: ·Bell Sympatico	reply to hm said by hm : said by hm : In one situation I was in everything was covered, except for (and this is the technical term they used), "The opening and closing ceremony", which cost me ~1,000$. That is where they dig the hole and then fill it in. Guess union work isn't covered. OH! I guess in regards to this topic the question must be asked! Will there be a flushing ceremony cost? The industry will figure out a way to charge for that. And someone will come up with a ritual of flushing. -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 10:52:17 ·
hm @videotron.ca	reply to DKS said by DKS: Cemetery costs are normally separate from the funeral. That is because in many parts of Canada, funeral homes are not allowed to own cemeteries. And not all cemeteries are unionized. We went through this in another topic. See reference in the first post of this topic. To re-iterate what was said in that other topic, not applicable here. Maybe in Ontario...
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 10:57:58 ·
Gone Premium join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON kudos:3 Reviews: ·Start Communicat..	reply to DKS said by DKS: And someone will come up with a ritual of flushing. The thought of that kind of makes me feel sick in the pit of my stomach, but hey, whatever floats one's boat I guess.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-11-30 11:23:12 ·

O Canada! > Canadian > Canadian Chat > ok a strange topic: Dissolving Grandma. Part Deux