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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to MrIcehouse

Re: [WIN8] Why such poor task manager?

said by MrIcehouse:

How often do you use task manager? I see it as a non issue. But hey, you're still using XP, how was that task manager? Not good I see because you're using a 3rd party one. I can think of more reasons to get rid of XP than I can to get rid of 8.

I keep Task Manager running in the systray all the time. I have it in Startup. I use it a lot. Prio is NOT a third party task manager. It ENHANCES Microsoft's Task Manager that is all. Prio's enhancements are far more sophisticated and useful than what Microsoft has done with the "new" Task Manager in Win 8.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to dave

said by dave:

Perhaps, but upgrades are self-inflicted.

Bullshit. I didn't upgrade. I have a dying XP Pro machine that is almost 7 years old with a bulging capacitor on the mobo and at least one bad fan and inoperable optical disks. So, I had to buy a new machine. I tried to buy a Win 7 machine. Actually bought one from Dell. On the day it was to be shipped, I got an email from Dell saying they were cancelling the order because the video card I ordered (ATI 7870) was no longer available for ANY Windows 7 machines. They said I would have to get a Win 8 machine instead or get a much weaker video card for a Win 7 machine. They said I could not wait for them to get more 7870 cards either as they would never again offer that card on Windows 7.

You try and buy a Win 7 machine. You can't find any except maybe refurbs at Dell outlet. In my case, I purposely bought Win 8 Pro so I would have downgrade rights. That appears to be a paper promise...not real ...not something Microsoft will make the OEMs do. I've spent two weeks trying to get Dell to send me a Windows 8 Pro Reinstallation disk (so I can do a clean install) and send me a Win 7 Pro disk so if I decide to downgrade I can do so. It has been like pulling teeth to get either one. I have spent many HOURS on the phone with Dell, emails with Dell, posting in Dell forum, trying to get these two items. Just a day ago, I was sent two USB keys that say that they are RECOVERY sticks to Win 8 Pro and Win 7 Pro. I looked at the files on them and could not find a "setup.exe" on either. But I have not yet tried booting to one of them to see...maybe setup is there and I can do a clean install of Win 8 or downgrade to Win 7. But given the gross amount of confusion from Dell employees (including a number of supervisors) speaking to me, and posting in the Dell forums, these USB sticks may only contain Recovery media.

So, it is self inflicted that I just happen to have the bad luck of needing a new machine at this particular time? (I would have purchased this summer when Dell would not have cancelled the order because of the video card as they were selling many of these machines with this card. However, I was not about to purchase a machine that had DEAD PCI e ports. It took Dell 5 MONTHS (and 250+ posts in the Dell forum thread) before they issued a BIOS upgrade to fix the hardware failure problem. After the new BIOS was posted, I still waited to make sure it actually fixed the problem. So, by the time I was feeling that it was safe to purchase this machine it was getting close to the date of Win 8 release).
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to vaxvms

said by vaxvms:

said by Blackbird:

experienced users can't find key things the way they're used to, or if they do find them, they can't find their way quickly and intuitively

You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Truer words . . .
--
After reading postings from the self so-called experts on the MS and Apple forums, I just have to shake my head sadly.


AnonGuru

@comcast.net
reply to SipSizzurp

You can paste into calculator in XP. Use your keyboard shortcuts...(ctrl-v)


Rakeesh

join:2011-10-30
Mesa, AZ
Reviews:
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·Cox HSI
reply to vaxvms

said by vaxvms:

Stop torturing yourself with the God awful Microsoft Operating Systems and switch to Ubuntu, a real OS. Lots of good tools available.

No thanks, I prefer not to have Amazon tracking.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA

1 recommendation

reply to Blackbird

said by Blackbird:

a lot of users may simply want to get their work done with a minimum of fuss and bother

And indeed, that's what the New UI is aiming to do. If you forget about how you USED to do things, and just do them, it's actually quite effective. It's only a "fuss and bother" if you are trying to use W8 like it was XP*

* or XP emulated in Win7...

Time to move on people. The future is now. Soylent Green is People.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Houston, TX
kudos:4
reply to AnonGuru

said by AnonGuru :

You can paste into calculator in XP. Use your keyboard shortcuts...(ctrl-v)

Yes, I knew that. I just tried ctrl-c to copy, and that works too !

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Mele20

FWIW, "downgrade rights" is a licensing issue - there's no requirement for anyone to provide you with the software. The assumption is that you already have the software: probably your organization has standardized on "the previous version" and you're buying a few new computers.

In fact, MS seems to explicitly state that you must already have the software:

The media should come from a prior legally licensed version from the OEM or Retail channels.
End users who are licensed separately through Microsoft Volume Licensing (VL) may provide their VL media and key to a system builder to facilitate the downgrade on their own systems.

»www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensi···5W1IvMgh

As far as I remember, it's always worked like this.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

2 edits

said by dave:

FWIW, "downgrade rights" is a licensing issue - there's no requirement for anyone to provide you with the software....

 
First, on the original topic, let me go on record as a firm believer in the old addage "Change Isn't Necessarily Progress".

It is not MY saying, but I assure y'all that I get PLENTY of mileage out of it.

Next, on the tangent, it looks to me as if M$ is doing what they always do - avoiding facing the issue head-on - that the silent majority are like me when I don my 'end-user hat' (I am otherwise known as a computer tech), and feel the same way as how I stated above.

We JUST want to get our work DONE, and do not want nor need to learn yet another new way to get to the screen where we do it !

As for the 'downgrade rights' wording, this is fine and fair if you are a member of an organization/corporation where a VL is in effect.

But what if you are (in the big scheme of things) only an individual like myself, and simply want/need a newer/faster PC, however wish to continue using the OS to which you have become accustomed ? (which, BTW, is still most frequently XP)

From what I can tell, M$ is in essence now condoning/blessing the method(s) by which many folks have gotten their installs of an earlier Windows when it WASN'T the earlier Windows.

IMNSHO, if I (as an individual, remember) contact Dell (or whoever) and order a PC where I pay extra for the Biz version of the new OS in order to have these so-called 'downgrade rights', then M$ should at very least issue me (thru the PC vendor) a COA with valid key on it, for the most recent previous Biz OS edition, at the time of purchase of the PC. - If they do not issue media, so be it, as I could always download it somewhere, to which I was alluding in an earlier paragraph.

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by Davesnothere:

... then M$ should at very least issue me (thru the PC vendor) a COA with valid key on it, for the most recent previous Biz OS edition, at the time of purchase of the PC.

I assume the key provided with the PC would work for Windows 7 from the same vendor - but since I've only does this with volume-licensed versions, I can't say for certain.

The time to verify this is before purchase, though.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
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START Today!
kudos:7

1 edit

said by dave:

I assume the key provided with the PC would work for Windows 7 from the same vendor - but since I've only does this with volume-licensed versions, I can't say for certain.

 
That has not been MY experience with keys from M$.

Using XP Pro as an example :

I personally have demonstrated that XPP VL keys are not accepted by an XPP OEM install, and vice versa (and the vice versa matters more, if you are only trying to make legit an illegally installed VL OS with an OEM key which is not currently in use elsewhere), and if they are not accepted WITHIN different flavours of a product version, then I quite doubt that they would be accepted in another version.


vaxvms
ferroequine fan
Premium
join:2005-03-01
Wormtown
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Reviews:
·Charter

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reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

do not want nor need to learn yet another new way to get to the screen where we do it !

Then don't upgrade to the newest version as soon as it's released and then piss n moan and cry its different and that old is better. If you must buy new hardware and feel compelled to use an old OS and/or an ancient version of some program go to eBay and buy the OLD software. Change does not equal evil. Unwillingness to learn and use change to one's advantage is lame.
--
CMKRNL


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
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START Today!
kudos:7

4 edits

said by vaxvms:

said by Davesnothere:

do not want nor need to learn yet another new way to get to the screen where we do it !

....Change does not [necessarily] equal evil.

Unwillingness to learn and use change to one's advantage is lame.

 
I wasn't specifically stating that change is evil, only that it can often be a sheer waste of time and/or money.

Believe you me, I am one of the LAST to adopt new things, unless I actually see a purpose in them.

On that basis, Win 8 does not qualify, unless you have/buy a tablet, IMNSHO.

So I should forgo the new PC then ? (they cost so little these days )

The process of living by 'small-c conservatism' should not need to be so convoluted.

I agree with you on your final points, but I do not feel that they apply to this particular argument.

--
We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
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START Today!
kudos:7
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

said by MrIcehouse:

How often do you use task manager? I see it as a non issue....

I keep Task Manager running in the systray all the time.

I have it in Startup. I use it a lot.


Prio is NOT a third party task manager. It ENHANCES Microsoft's Task Manager that is all. Prio's enhancements are far more sophisticated and useful than what Microsoft has done with the "new" Task Manager in Win 8.

 
As do I. - (I won't leave home without it )

Some apps are such extreme Memory/CPU resource hogs and need to be managed.

This is one effective way to do that.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

1 recommendation

reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

said by vaxvms:

said by Davesnothere:

do not want nor need to learn yet another new way to get to the screen where we do it !

....Change does not [necessarily] equal evil.

Unwillingness to learn and use change to one's advantage is lame.

 
I wasn't specifically stating that change is evil, only that it can often be a sheer waste of time and/or money.

Believe you me, I am one of the LAST to adopt new things, unless I actually see a purpose in them.

On that basis, Win 8 does not qualify, unless you have/buy a tablet, IMNSHO.

So I should forgo the new PC then ? (they cost so little these days )

The process of living by 'small-c conservatism' should not need to be so convoluted.

I agree with you on your final points, but I do not feel that they apply to this particular argument.

Did you not read vaxvms' response? He said if you want old and outdated, it's there for the purchasing. No one said to forego new hardware or computers. By the machine, wipe it and install whatever floats your boat. Whining about it is lame as well.
--
After reading postings from the self so-called experts on the MS and Apple forums, I just have to shake my head sadly.

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

2 recommendations

said by Badonkadonk:

By the machine, wipe it and install whatever floats your boat.

If he buys machine, he pays for the preinstalled Windows OS. Didn't you know that? Then, wiping it means simple - wasting his money. Is that what you suggest?
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Davesnothere

The way I recall it,

. if you have a VL key for version N, you can use it with the VL cd/dvd for version N-1

. if you have an OEM key for version N, you can use it with the OEM cd/dvd for version N-1

. you can't intermix VL and OEM discs and keys

But it's been quite a while since i last really needed to know this.



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to OZO

said by OZO:

If he buys a machine, he pays for the preinstalled Windows OS. Didn't you know that?

Then, wiping it means simple - wasting his money. Is that what you suggest?

 
Yes, your points were part of my logic.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to dave

said by dave:

The way I recall it,

. if you have a VL key for version N, you can use it with the VL cd/dvd for version N-1

. if you have an OEM key for version N, you can use it with the OEM cd/dvd for version N-1

. you can't intermix VL and OEM discs and keys

But it's been quite a while since i last really needed to know this.

 
I also have tested and proven that you cannot mix keys from (e.g.) XP Home and Pro, nor among Full versions and Upgrades of same edition.

I do not have enough versions & keys on hand to test everything, but I may have enough to see whether a key from Vista Home Basic OEM would let me install XP Home OEM.

Or is what you said only applicable among Biz/Pro releases ?

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8

Dunno - I've never tried with 'home' versions.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to OZO

said by OZO:

said by Badonkadonk:

By the machine, wipe it and install whatever floats your boat.

If he buys machine, he pays for the preinstalled Windows OS. Didn't you know that? Then, wiping it means simple - wasting his money. Is that what you suggest?

Yup. The question was whether the should forego new hardware (he even said they cost so little).
--
After reading postings from the self so-called experts on the MS and Apple forums, I just have to shake my head sadly.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to dave

What key? Windows 8 has no COA sticker on the side or bottom of the machine or even inside the case. Dell had to change their method of installation with Win 8 and there is an individual key in BIOS now on each Dell Win 8 computer. Will this key work if I try to install Win 7 Pro as a downgrade? No one seems to know for sure.

Dell said they honor downgrade rights and also said, of course, they will send Reinstallation disks (NOT restore to factory default) if requested AFTER you get the machine. You cannot request on the configurator. After I got the machine, filled out the request form on Dell support page, and entered my service tag number that is what started this mess of contradictory emails from Dell, contradictory statements in Dell forum by employees and long time "Rockstar" posters there, frustration from the person who publishes the Dell Wikis on how to do a clean install of various Dell OSes, Dell customer service reps with different answers, and more confusion, Dell hardware and software support techs, and supervisors with even more confusion....it's been quite a ride.

Dell Sm/Med Business Customer Care told me on the phone a few days ago that even if I bought from Member Purchase Program (which is a division of Dell Sm/Med business) that the configurator was required to offer me the Reinstallation disk for Win 8 (and the downgrade Win 7 Pro disk) but it didn't. In fact it said (as it has ALWAYS SAID FOR ABOUT A YEAR NOW) that disks have to ordered AFTER you receive the machine and input your Service tag on the order form. This rep (located in USA) said if they were not offered on the configurator when I purchased that he would have to get with the Dell website team and get them to add that. He also told me that it was not legal for Dell to refuse to offer me Pro Support on the configurator. I was only offered Basic (India ...special fast cue ...specially trained techs just for XPS and Alienware) but I wanted Pro Support as that is in the USA. I did get Pro Support on the first XPS I bought a few days before Win 8 was released. I told the Sm/Med business Customer Care guy this and I told him that Dell was changing their offerings of this computer and their configurator at least 10 times a day during the time I purchased both of them...some of the time, Dell would say the computer was not available for purchase at all...an hour later it would be there ...but only one config to choose...a bit later 7 configs...then back to one...and every choice on the configurator was changing rapidly too.

This happened to many others too who were purchasing, starting about 4 days before Win 8 was released, but before Black Friday which for MPP started on Nov 15. This Sm/Med business Customer Care tech told me that he could not initiate a return request because MPP Customer Care (which is a part of Sm/Med Business Division) is located in India (that was news to me) and they have to do it. I could not reach them and that is how I eventually got to this USA Sm/Med Business Customer Care person. He tried to reach them in India and got the same recording I did that they were closed and to call back during business hours. Like for me, the recording did not state what the business hours were and he had no idea and was appalled at the sloppiness of the recording.

I could go on and on as that is just a taste of what I am going through but you get the idea. Presently, Dell Social Outreach Customer Care person at Round Rock, Texas (who has been with Dell since 1998) has sent me two USB Keys that are supposed to have setup.exe on them for Win 8 Pro and Win 7 Pro. But I can't boot to either and when I examine the files I can't see "setup.exe" anywhere. Plus, the paper inserts with the keys (and the COA sticker on each key) states that they contain "Replacement Recovery Media for Support Purpose Only and not for distribution with a new computer". I had requested REINSTALLATION DVDs but was told Dell was going green and had moved to USB Keys instead and was sent these.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11
reply to Mele20

I thought this thread was about Windows 8 Task Manager?
What exactly is this thread about now? Seems very off topic.



Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2

1 recommendation

I agree. Are we done discussing the Windows 8 Task Manager? If not, then let me know and I will re-open the thread.