Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | reply to MrIcehouse
Re: [WIN8] Why such poor task manager? said by MrIcehouse:How often do you use task manager? I see it as a non issue. But hey, you're still using XP, how was that task manager? Not good I see because you're using a 3rd party one. I can think of more reasons to get rid of XP than I can to get rid of 8.
I keep Task Manager running in the systray all the time. I have it in Startup. I use it a lot. Prio is NOT a third party task manager. It ENHANCES Microsoft's Task Manager that is all. Prio's enhancements are far more sophisticated and useful than what Microsoft has done with the "new" Task Manager in Win 8.
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4
1 edit | reply to dave
said by dave:Perhaps, but upgrades are self-inflicted.
Bullshit. I didn't upgrade. I have a dying XP Pro machine that is almost 7 years old with a bulging capacitor on the mobo and at least one bad fan and inoperable optical disks. So, I had to buy a new machine. I tried to buy a Win 7 machine. Actually bought one from Dell. On the day it was to be shipped, I got an email from Dell saying they were cancelling the order because the video card I ordered (ATI 7870) was no longer available for ANY Windows 7 machines. They said I would have to get a Win 8 machine instead or get a much weaker video card for a Win 7 machine. They said I could not wait for them to get more 7870 cards either as they would never again offer that card on Windows 7.
You try and buy a Win 7 machine. You can't find any except maybe refurbs at Dell outlet. In my case, I purposely bought Win 8 Pro so I would have downgrade rights. That appears to be a paper promise...not real ...not something Microsoft will make the OEMs do. I've spent two weeks trying to get Dell to send me a Windows 8 Pro Reinstallation disk (so I can do a clean install) and send me a Win 7 Pro disk so if I decide to downgrade I can do so. It has been like pulling teeth to get either one. I have spent many HOURS on the phone with Dell, emails with Dell, posting in Dell forum, trying to get these two items. Just a day ago, I was sent two USB keys that say that they are RECOVERY sticks to Win 8 Pro and Win 7 Pro. I looked at the files on them and could not find a "setup.exe" on either. But I have not yet tried booting to one of them to see...maybe setup is there and I can do a clean install of Win 8 or downgrade to Win 7. But given the gross amount of confusion from Dell employees (including a number of supervisors) speaking to me, and posting in the Dell forums, these USB sticks may only contain Recovery media.
So, it is self inflicted that I just happen to have the bad luck of needing a new machine at this particular time? (I would have purchased this summer when Dell would not have cancelled the order because of the video card as they were selling many of these machines with this card. However, I was not about to purchase a machine that had DEAD PCI e ports. It took Dell 5 MONTHS (and 250+ posts in the Dell forum thread) before they issued a BIOS upgrade to fix the hardware failure problem. After the new BIOS was posted, I still waited to make sure it actually fixed the problem. So, by the time I was feeling that it was safe to purchase this machine it was getting close to the date of Win 8 release).
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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 GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
 ·Dish Network
| reply to vaxvms
said by vaxvms:said by Blackbird:experienced users can't find key things the way they're used to, or if they do find them, they can't find their way quickly and intuitively You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Truer words . . .
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After reading postings from the self so-called experts on the MS and Apple forums, I just have to shake my head sadly. |
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| reply to SipSizzurp
You can paste into calculator in XP. Use your keyboard shortcuts...(ctrl-v) |
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Reviews:
 ·Sprint Mobile Br..
 ·Cox HSI
| reply to vaxvms
said by vaxvms:Stop torturing yourself with the God awful Microsoft Operating Systems and switch to Ubuntu, a real OS. Lots of good tools available.
No thanks, I prefer not to have Amazon tracking. |
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 JohnInSJPremium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
 ·PHONE POWER
·Comcast
| reply to Blackbird
said by Blackbird: a lot of users may simply want to get their work done with a minimum of fuss and bother
And indeed, that's what the New UI is aiming to do. If you forget about how you USED to do things, and just do them, it's actually quite effective. It's only a "fuss and bother" if you are trying to use W8 like it was XP*
* or XP emulated in Win7...
Time to move on people. The future is now. Soylent Green is People.
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My place : »www.schettino.us |
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SipSizzurpFo' ShizzlePremium
join:2005-12-28
Houston, TX
kudos:4 | reply to AnonGuru
said by AnonGuru :You can paste into calculator in XP. Use your keyboard shortcuts...(ctrl-v)
Yes, I knew that. I just tried ctrl-c to copy, and that works too !  |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8 | reply to Mele20
FWIW, "downgrade rights" is a licensing issue - there's no requirement for anyone to provide you with the software. The assumption is that you already have the software: probably your organization has standardized on "the previous version" and you're buying a few new computers.
In fact, MS seems to explicitly state that you must already have the software:
◦The media should come from a prior legally licensed version from the OEM or Retail channels.
◦End users who are licensed separately through Microsoft Volume Licensing (VL) may provide their VL media and key to a system builder to facilitate the downgrade on their own systems.
As far as I remember, it's always worked like this. |
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DavesnothereNo-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
join:2009-06-15
START&Cogeco
kudos:6
2 edits | said by dave:FWIW, "downgrade rights" is a licensing issue - there's no requirement for anyone to provide you with the software....
First, on the original topic, let me go on record as a firm believer in the old addage "Change Isn't Necessarily Progress".
It is not MY saying, but I assure y'all that I get PLENTY of mileage out of it. 
Next, on the tangent, it looks to me as if M$ is doing what they always do - avoiding facing the issue head-on - that the silent majority are like me when I don my 'end-user hat' (I am otherwise known as a computer tech), and feel the same way as how I stated above.
We JUST want to get our work DONE, and do not want nor need to learn yet another new way to get to the screen where we do it !
As for the 'downgrade rights' wording, this is fine and fair if you are a member of an organization/corporation where a VL is in effect.
But what if you are (in the big scheme of things) only an individual like myself, and simply want/need a newer/faster PC, however wish to continue using the OS to which you have become accustomed ? (which, BTW, is still most frequently XP)
From what I can tell, M$ is in essence now condoning/blessing the method(s) by which many folks have gotten their installs of an earlier Windows when it WASN'T the earlier Windows.
IMNSHO, if I (as an individual, remember) contact Dell (or whoever) and order a PC where I pay extra for the Biz version of the new OS in order to have these so-called 'downgrade rights', then M$ should at very least issue me (thru the PC vendor) a COA with valid key on it, for the most recent previous Biz OS edition, at the time of purchase of the PC. - If they do not issue media, so be it, as I could always download it somewhere, to which I was alluding in an earlier paragraph. |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8 | said by Davesnothere:... then M$ should at very least issue me (thru the PC vendor) a COA with valid key on it, for the most recent previous Biz OS edition, at the time of purchase of the PC. I assume the key provided with the PC would work for Windows 7 from the same vendor - but since I've only does this with volume-licensed versions, I can't say for certain.
The time to verify this is before purchase, though. |
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DavesnothereNo-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
join:2009-06-15
START&Cogeco
kudos:6
1 edit | said by dave:I assume the key provided with the PC would work for Windows 7 from the same vendor - but since I've only does this with volume-licensed versions, I can't say for certain.
That has not been MY experience with keys from M$.
Using XP Pro as an example :
I personally have demonstrated that XPP VL keys are not accepted by an XPP OEM install, and vice versa (and the vice versa matters more, if you are only trying to make legit an illegally installed VL OS with an OEM key which is not currently in use elsewhere), and if they are not accepted WITHIN different flavours of a product version, then I quite doubt that they would be accepted in another version. |
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 vaxvmsferroequine fanPremium
join:2005-03-01
Wormtown
·Charter
| reply to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere: do not want nor need to learn yet another new way to get to the screen where we do it !
Then don't upgrade to the newest version as soon as it's released and then piss n moan and cry its different and that old is better. If you must buy new hardware and feel compelled to use an old OS and/or an ancient version of some program go to eBay and buy the OLD software. Change does not equal evil. Unwillingness to learn and use change to one's advantage is lame.
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CMKRNL |
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DavesnothereNo-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
join:2009-06-15
START&Cogeco
kudos:6
4 edits | said by vaxvms:said by Davesnothere: do not want nor need to learn yet another new way to get to the screen where we do it !
....Change does not [necessarily] equal evil. Unwillingness to learn and use change to one's advantage is lame.
I wasn't specifically stating that change is evil, only that it can often be a sheer waste of time and/or money.
Believe you me, I am one of the LAST to adopt new things, unless I actually see a purpose in them.
On that basis, Win 8 does not qualify, unless you have/buy a tablet, IMNSHO.
So I should forgo the new PC then ? (they cost so little these days  )
The process of living by 'small-c conservatism' should not need to be so convoluted.
I agree with you on your final points, but I do not feel that they apply to this particular argument.
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We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
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START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.
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DavesnothereNo-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
join:2009-06-15
START&Cogeco
kudos:6 | reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:said by MrIcehouse:How often do you use task manager? I see it as a non issue.... I keep Task Manager running in the systray all the time.
I have it in Startup. I use it a lot.Prio is NOT a third party task manager. It ENHANCES Microsoft's Task Manager that is all. Prio's enhancements are far more sophisticated and useful than what Microsoft has done with the "new" Task Manager in Win 8.
As do I. - (I won't leave home without it )
Some apps are such extreme Memory/CPU resource hogs and need to be managed.
This is one effective way to do that. |
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GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Dish Network
| reply to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:said by vaxvms:said by Davesnothere: do not want nor need to learn yet another new way to get to the screen where we do it !
....Change does not [necessarily] equal evil. Unwillingness to learn and use change to one's advantage is lame. I wasn't specifically stating that change is evil, only that it can often be a sheer waste of time and/or money. Believe you me, I am one of the LAST to adopt new things, unless I actually see a purpose in them. On that basis, Win 8 does not qualify, unless you have/buy a tablet, IMNSHO. So I should forgo the new PC then ? (they cost so little these days ) The process of living by 'small-c conservatism' should not need to be so convoluted. I agree with you on your final points, but I do not feel that they apply to this particular argument. Did you not read vaxvms' response? He said if you want old and outdated, it's there for the purchasing. No one said to forego new hardware or computers. By the machine, wipe it and install whatever floats your boat. Whining about it is lame as well.
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After reading postings from the self so-called experts on the MS and Apple forums, I just have to shake my head sadly. |
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OZOPremium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2 | said by Goober:By the machine, wipe it and install whatever floats your boat.
If he buys machine, he pays for the preinstalled Windows OS. Didn't you know that? Then, wiping it means simple - wasting his money. Is that what you suggest?
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Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8 | reply to Davesnothere
The way I recall it,
. if you have a VL key for version N, you can use it with the VL cd/dvd for version N-1
. if you have an OEM key for version N, you can use it with the OEM cd/dvd for version N-1
. you can't intermix VL and OEM discs and keys
But it's been quite a while since i last really needed to know this. |
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DavesnothereNo-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
join:2009-06-15
START&Cogeco
kudos:6 | reply to OZO
said by OZO:If he buys a machine, he pays for the preinstalled Windows OS. Didn't you know that?
Then, wiping it means simple - wasting his money. Is that what you suggest?
Yes, your points were part of my logic. |
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DavesnothereNo-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
join:2009-06-15
START&Cogeco
kudos:6 | reply to dave
said by dave:The way I recall it,
. if you have a VL key for version N, you can use it with the VL cd/dvd for version N-1
. if you have an OEM key for version N, you can use it with the OEM cd/dvd for version N-1
. you can't intermix VL and OEM discs and keys
But it's been quite a while since i last really needed to know this.
I also have tested and proven that you cannot mix keys from (e.g.) XP Home and Pro, nor among Full versions and Upgrades of same edition.
I do not have enough versions & keys on hand to test everything, but I may have enough to see whether a key from Vista Home Basic OEM would let me install XP Home OEM.
Or is what you said only applicable among Biz/Pro releases ? |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8 | Dunno - I've never tried with 'home' versions. |
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