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bigdaddy

join:2009-11-18
kudos:2
reply to rabeatz

Re: Using CableCard/HDhomerun Prime? Feedback Wanted

said by rabeatz:

I can't give an exact answer on that but I can tell you that with my HDHomerun it has 3 tuners built in, and it uses one cablecard and one tuning adapter, so the answer I have is at least 3 streams when there are three tuners.

I was referring to BHNs Official stream count for CC and Tuning Adapter.

rabeatz

join:2012-11-26
Winter Springs, FL

Ah, then BHNtechXpert See Profile is probably the one to answer that.


pronk

join:2011-06-21
Oviedo, FL
reply to rabeatz

OK, new healthcare kicking in next year running me an extra $550/month so I am looking at where I can cut back on costs.

Since BHNTech hooked me up last year with a new modem/router I figured coming here was better than going to the BHN chat.

Here is what I currently have:
3 Roku2's, 1 Roku
3 Set Top Boxes, 2 record (I've resisted the WHDVR setup)
Two Xboxes though one needs repaired

Since I've got a lot of movies I'd like to watch using the Roku's my plan was to build a new HTPC and install Plex so that the Rokus can view movies on the network. This is working fine on an older PC I tried it out on so I plan to invest in something a little newer and install Windows7. (might as well stick to Plex with the Roku investment).

Now having read up on this, I would like to verify if the following is true:
- Since I have three STBs from Brighthouse, if I wanted to ditch box rentals, my current setup (assuming I add HTPC per plan) is sufficient. Meaning each Xbox 360 becomes an extender, and my new PC is the third with Win7/DVR
- I could then opt for Cable Card, and HD Home Run Prime and have three devices available, the PC and two 360s
- Obviously unrelated but the Plex content can be accessed via Roku (Netflix, Amazon, MLB etc.)

The only question is how well it's working. I could save roughly $30/month, plus I am paying for the full movie suite offering of $36, I could drop to HBO only, and knock close to $50 off the bill. Remember that I am probably going to get the PC anyway, so the real investment is the HD Home Run Prime and repair of the one 360. If it's working well, seems like a no-brainer.


rabeatz

join:2012-11-26
Winter Springs, FL

If you don't mind using the Xbox 360s as extenders than it will work. With the main PC recording/as the DVR, the 360s would be able to access the recorded programs, so essentially a whole house DVR. And you can install an app like Remote Potato to schedule recordings from your browser on any computer anywhere.

You can find the HDHRPrime for 120-130 if you keep your eyes open for a deal . I had set up a deal alert on Slickdeals.net.

The only thing you'd lose would be interactive/on demand content - the HDHomerun is a one way device so you won't be able to do videos on demand at all.


pronk

join:2011-06-21
Oviedo, FL

Thanks I don't use that much since I would rent on Amazon if needed, I do get UFC fights, but apparently the Roku can handle that. Seems like a pretty good idea I'll have to keep researching it.


rabeatz

join:2012-11-26
Winter Springs, FL

I'm happy with mine and I also like that I'm able to turn on my laptop and watch TV on there when I'm home. I've had mine set up for about a month now.



Trimline
Premium
join:2004-10-24
Windermere, FL
Reviews:
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reply to rabeatz

Click for full size
My Channels Look
Click for full size
Media Browser
I've used the HDHomerun Prime and cable card setup for a little over a year now and really like it. I've got 3 HTPC's, all wireless throughout the house with no issues (WNDR3700). I use the WMC for the TV along with this little plugin - »www.mychannellogos.com/Pages/default.aspx If you have your movies stored on a network drive, by all means, augment the WMC with Media Browser - »www.mediabrowser.tv/

Not sure if I'd use anything else as this setup just screams.

Just waiting for BHN to update their cable cards so I can drop the SD box and go with just the card and on-demand access.

rabeatz

join:2012-11-26
Winter Springs, FL

1 edit

said by Trimline:

Just waiting for BHN to update their cable cards so I can drop the SD box and go with just the card and on-demand access.

Curious as to what kind of update you're referring to - do you mean update their card to allow on-demand with cablecards? I could be wrong but it's my understanding that the cablecards are completely capable of two communication (it's the same cards they use in the cable boxes), but it's the end devices (HDHRPrime, Tivo, etc) that do not support it.


Trimline
Premium
join:2004-10-24
Windermere, FL
Reviews:
·ObiVoice
·Bright House
·Callcentric
·voip.ms

said by rabeatz:

said by Trimline:

Just waiting for BHN to update their cable cards so I can drop the SD box and go with just the card and on-demand access.

Curious as to what you mean by update their card - do you mean update their card to allow on-demand with cablecards? I could be wrong but it's my understanding that the cablecards are completely capable of two communication (it's the same cards they use in the cable boxes), but it's the end devices (HDHRPrime, Tivo, etc) that do not support it.

Unless I've missed something, when using a cable card, you cannot order video-on-demand. As I understand, it is a limitation of the card itself. Maybe one of the techs can chime in.

I use Amazon Prime and a Roku to overcome those limitations.

rabeatz

join:2012-11-26
Winter Springs, FL

I wish that were true because it'd give me hope for getting some on-demand content in the future as well - but the cable boxes themselves use cable cards, per FCC requirements, so if it were a limitation of the card they would be affected too.

"Interactive features such as Video on Demand rely on the CableCARD Host device being an OpenCable Host Device and have nothing to do with the physical card. This makes the common use of the phrase "CableCARD 2.0" as a requirement for video on demand misleading, since two way services have been provided with the actual cards from the very beginning.[8]"

I believe our HDHomerunPrimes are considered to be "UDCPs" (Unidirectional Digital Cable Product), meaning the box itself only supports one way.

I think the problem is the on demand content uses lots of proprietary coding from the provider included only in their box's operating system itself, so retail two way cablecard devices are not available.

Not the best source, but the part I'm referring to is cited with a CableLabs paper. Bottom two paragraphs of the Physical CableCards section.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD#···bleCARDs


JL06

join:2012-12-28
Winter Springs, FL
reply to rabeatz

I was sent here by BHNtechXpert to dive deeper into my problem. Great thread so far, let's keep it going.

I have a similar setup as the HDHRP except I am using the PCI version of the Ceton InfiniTV:
»cetoncorp.com/products/infinitv-4-pcie/

The host to said device is a Linux machine and using XBMC+MythTV as a consumer/GUI.

I have gathered from the thread, forum and elsewhere online that copy protection plays a big role in the performance of these types of devices.

My questions:
1) Is it possible to view anything from a CableCard other than "copy free" media on my setup.

2) Is the recently expired Windows Media Center the only PC based front-end available that would work?

3) Why does BHN set the "copy once" flag on standard cable channels (e.g. Comedy Central, ESPN) instead of just protected or premium channels (e.g. HBO)? From what I can gather there is no standard and some providers reserve the copy protection for premium channels.

As an aside the links in this thread to the new SiliconDust UPnP device look promising, especially the XBMC youtube video. However UPnP totally circumvents the ability to schedule programs, view guide data and otherwise function as an actual cable tv system. Does anyone know anything new that would invalidate that statement?

Thanks, JL.



BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148
reply to rabeatz

Guys help John out please


rabeatz

join:2012-11-26
Winter Springs, FL
reply to JL06

said by JL06:

My questions:
1) Is it possible to view anything from a CableCard other than "copy free" media on my setup.

If you saw my original post in this topic, I'm in the same boat.. Was really hoping to use one of the great backends available on linux, (or ANY backend other than WMC). Unfortunately, there's no way around that with the copy protected channels.

said by JL06:

2) Is the recently expired Windows Media Center the only PC based front-end available that would work?

Yes, it's your only option for the copy protected content.. at the moment. Not sure what you mean by recently expired - it is still available on Windows 8 and Windows 7. I believe it's a free download for Windows 7, and Windows 8 you can request a free key (do it now or you'll pay $10 for it later).

said by JL06:

3) Why does BHN set the "copy once" flag on standard cable channels (e.g. Comedy Central, ESPN) instead of just protected or premium channels (e.g. HBO)? From what I can gather there is no standard and some providers reserve the copy protection for premium channels.

My understanding as to why Brighthouse does it is due to the content providers requiring it, partly as a part of their contract negotiations with Brighthouse/Time Warner. At least, BHNtechXpert explained to me that a major part of the reason was due to content providers.

said by JL06:

As an aside the links in this thread to the new SiliconDust UPnP device look promising, especially the XBMC youtube video. However UPnP totally circumvents the ability to schedule programs, view guide data and otherwise function as an actual cable tv system. Does anyone know anything new that would invalidate that statement?

From what I can see, it won't be a new device but a firmware upgrade for the existing HDHomerun Prime. There's talk in the SiliconDust forums on potential scheduling methods, but alot of it is up in the air and unknown.. They're supposed to unveil phase 2 at CES , which is Jan 8 - 11 , so stay tuned and we'll see what happens.

JL06

join:2012-12-28
Winter Springs, FL

Thanks for clearing it up for me, I had guessed most of those answers already but it's nice to have a confirmation. It's really disappointing that my setup won't work because of something as seemingly trivial as the copy protection bit.

XBMC and Linux work too well for me to compromise by installing Windows, especially if I would be required to switch out of XBMC and into Windows Media Center to watch TV. Not a really great HTPC experience to have to drop down into Windows before flipping on The Discovery Channel.

I will explore other avenues and providers for cable content and keep an eye out in early Jan. for anything new.

Thanks again.



bigdaddy

join:2009-11-18
kudos:2

There is an alternate way of getting premium cable content and not having to be worried about CCI Profile while using a Linux front. I'll go into it further in a later post tomorrow.



gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
reply to rabeatz

The hdhomerun quick tv works but the interface is very basic.
It's installed as part of the hdhr package.
--
Let them eat FIBER!


pronk

join:2011-06-21
Oviedo, FL
reply to Trimline

said by Trimline:

I've used the HDHomerun Prime and cable card setup for a little over a year now and really like it. I've got 3 HTPC's, all wireless throughout the house with no issues (WNDR3700). I use the WMC for the TV along with this little plugin - »www.mychannellogos.com/Pages/default.aspx If you have your movies stored on a network drive, by all means, augment the WMC with Media Browser - »www.mediabrowser.tv/

Not sure if I'd use anything else as this setup just screams.

Just waiting for BHN to update their cable cards so I can drop the SD box and go with just the card and on-demand access.

I do have a 4th and 5th TV that are Roku only sets in the kid's bedrooms. Just little 23-inch 1080p monitors I haven't run any STBs to these things in years, and don't expect either kid expects me to. So I might still need to install Plex to host movies for those two systems. However the master Bedroom and the kids' man-cave will have the two xboxes. I would assume on those two servers there is no sense even using Plex (hell I don't even know if Plex is on the 360)

Sounds like this is going to be a winner, glad I came to this thread.


BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148
reply to rabeatz

Guys lots of good information in this thread...please keep it going...I really like to see you folks helping each other out especially with this stuff...


rabeatz

join:2012-11-26
Winter Springs, FL
reply to gaforces

said by gaforces:

The hdhomerun quick tv works but the interface is very basic.
It's installed as part of the hdhr package.

Works for protected channels? I could never get it to tune protected channels, only free ones. At least not tune it very well, some would load and some wouldn't.

ecollin2

join:2012-12-15
Orlando, FL

QuickTV will only play copy freely content. The beta software says you can use http to tune and record but it is also limited to copy freely content.

»www.silicondust.com/forum/viewto···ght=http

or search the silicondust forums for "Recording using HTTP download"



bigdaddy

join:2009-11-18
kudos:2
reply to rabeatz

OK here it goes.

For those of you BHN TV subscribers this solution requires a Set top box DVR or HD Converter will do, next you'll need the Hauppauge HD PVR »www.hauppauge.com/site/products/···pvr.html »www.amazon.com/Hauppauge-1212-De···s=hd+pvr. Next download the latest Drivers form here »www.hauppauge.com/site/support/s···pvr.html. Now there's two way's of integrating the HD PVR with Windows Media Center 7 one is here »www.hauppauge.com/pdfs/hdpvr_col···uide.pdf and two is here »1geek1tool.com/hdpvr/download. I have tried both the solutions the one form hauppauge works but is not reliable the second will cost you an extra $39.99 but is kind of tricky to setup but once done properly it is rock solid stable has the cabability to integrate 4 hauppauge HD PVRs. For you Linux Folks there is MythTV for the HD PVR »www.mythtv.org/wiki/Index.php/Ha···e_HD-PVR.

With this Solution You don't need to be worried about CCI Flag's or Premium Channel's or Copy Freely etc. Yes there is quiet a bit of setup work and troubleshooting but once done there is No DRM No cable cards with tuning adapters the set-top has those built in. If anyone has any Questions please feel free to ask.

Happy New Year !


rabeatz

join:2012-11-26
Winter Springs, FL

Interesting workaround.. but then you've only got 1 tuner available, per hauppage PVR and set top box combination, correct? For me personally it wouldn't be worth the effort/money.

But I'm sure that others appreciate the info. I wasn't aware of the HD PVR.



bigdaddy

join:2009-11-18
kudos:2

said by rabeatz:

Interesting workaround.. but then you've only got 1 tuner available, per hauppage PVR and set top box combination, correct? For me personally it wouldn't be worth the effort/money.

But I'm sure that others appreciate the info. I wasn't aware of the HD PVR.

Yes that's Correct. Also you can Record free and Premium VOD. You can capture video content manually with the included arcsoft total media software or have windows 7 media center do it for you. Look at it this way if you want DRM Free Recording's Go with the hauppage HD PVR. Remember If you go with BHN's cable card and tuning adapter All your recording's will be Encrypted except Local's .


BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148

Of course we aren't going to discuss DRM circumvention methods here right BD? Makes my eye twitch a bit and I get that uneasy feeling in my stomach... Everything is fair game as long we don't cross that line



bigdaddy

join:2009-11-18
kudos:2

3 edits

Ah gotta love disclaimers. LOL



BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148
reply to rabeatz

LOL


bighorn1

join:2004-06-19
Bakersfield, CA
kudos:1
reply to BHNtechXpert

said by BHNtechXpert:

Of course we aren't going to discuss DRM circumvention methods here right BD? Makes my eye twitch a bit and I get that uneasy feeling in my stomach... Everything is fair game as long we don't cross that line

Technically, this is not DRM circumvention since analog outputs like component video have none and is perfectly legal.

Because it is legal, companies like Hauppauge can sell products which allow recordings over analog connections without being slammed by lawsuits.

Circumventing (breaking) HDPC encryption over digital connections (HDMI/DVI) is illegal though.


bigdaddy

join:2009-11-18
kudos:2

said by bighorn1:

said by BHNtechXpert:

Of course we aren't going to discuss DRM circumvention methods here right BD? Makes my eye twitch a bit and I get that uneasy feeling in my stomach... Everything is fair game as long we don't cross that line

Technically, this is not DRM circumvention since analog outputs like component video have none and is perfectly legal.

Because it is legal, companies like Hauppauge can sell products which allow recordings over analog connections without being slammed by lawsuits.

Circumventing (breaking) HDPC encryption over digital connections (HDMI/DVI) is illegal though.

The main reason I purchesed the HD PVR was to off load recordings from BHNs HD DVR. at that time the HD DVRs capacity was only 160GB so it filled up very quickly. Also the E-SATA port is now Disabled so the HD PVR really comes in handy now.