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NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to AngryDallas

Re: AT&T Switching me to UVerse without my permission!

said by AngryDallas:

I just spent 3 months talking to retention to get my internet service renewed for 6 more months at $24.95:

and now they want to switch me to UVerse without my permission.

Does your local retailer need your permission to replace an aging, manual POS device with the latest, state-of-the-art device? Does your local OTA TV station need your permission to replace aging, analog transmitters with the latest, state-of-the-art digital transmitters?

AT&T wants to replace aging ADSL equipment, which is getting harder to support because manufactures are producing fewer replacement parts; driving up the cost of maintenance. They are upgrading to newer ADSL2+/VDSL equipment. The decision is not customer based.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

public

join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
said by NormanS:

AT&T wants to replace aging ADSL equipment, which is getting harder to support because manufactures are producing fewer replacement parts; driving up the cost of maintenance. They are upgrading to newer ADSL2+/VDSL equipment. The decision is not customer based.

New dslams are multimode, and can easily operate in adsl mode.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by public:

New dslams are multimode, and can easily operate in adsl mode.

It seems that they also want to move people away from ATM and PPPoE.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

AngryDallas

join:2010-12-06
Dallas, TX
When I called them, the lady kept telling me it's fiber optics. it's fiber optics.

That's a croak of BS!

It MAY BE fiber optics but from the box on the side of my building to my modem is still a regular crappy copper phone line.

(she said no one needs to come inside my house to do anything)

If it's really fiber optics, they should replace the line from their box to the wall jack with fiber optics and also give me a fiber optics cord to connect from the wall jack to the modem.

public

join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
reply to NormanS
said by NormanS:

said by public:

New dslams are multimode, and can easily operate in adsl mode.

It seems that they also want to move people away from ATM and PPPoE.

Not really. IPDSLAM only replaces ATM with IP between the DSLAM and the upstream. Users still see ATM.

AngryDallas

join:2010-12-06
Dallas, TX
ATM? DSLAM? PPOE? IPDSLAM?

Someone explain it to me please?

Thanks!


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
Asynchronous Transfer Mode. Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexer. Point-to-Point Protocol over Ethernet (3xP, lower case 'o'). Internet Protocol Digital Subscriber Line Multiplexer.

ATM is a kind of circuit switching. Many DSL providers use it on the DSLAM to aggregation router circuit; where the aggregation router is the first IP hop (the first hop past your CPE with an IP address).

The DSLAM is similar to the DSL modem. Individual copper pairs from each premises are connected to one of several "ports". A DSLAM can be located in COs (Central Offices), or RTs (Remote Terminals). The IPDSLAM brings the IP circuit closer to the customer. Instead of the ATM circuit between the DSLAM and aggregation router, an IP circuit is used.

For AT&T U-verse TV packages, VRADs (Video Ready Access Devices) are specialized RTs housing the equipment for VDSL (Video Digital Subscriber Line) access modules.

PPPoE is a method of authentication. It is commonly used by DSL providers, but not necessary for DSL.

Why the lady kept saying, "It's fiber". In the early, "Dark Ages" of DSL, DSLAMS were often fed by T1 (copper) circuits to the carrier's network. Put too many customers on copper fed DSLAMS, and reliable delivery of the promised speeds will suffer. As SBC, the company upgraded much of its plant to bring fiber to the DSLAMs. While this did bring fiber closer to the customer, and went a long way to mitigate bandwidth exhaustion issues, it is not FTTH.

AT&T U-verse HSI is made available to customers too far from DSLAMs for IPTV (Internet Protocol Television). It can utilize either VDSL, or ADSL2+. Where AT&T used ATM back to the network for ADSL, they are replacing the older ATM circuits with newer all IP circuits called, "PTM"; I think it refers to, "Packet Transfer Mode". They are also replacing PPPoE authentication with 802.1x. This pretty much means the customer cannot connect with generic ADSL2+, or VDSL modems.

I believe they are doing this in an effort to squeeze out the CLECs, because there is no regulatory requirement on AT&T to provide wholesale access to their IPDSLAM network. IOW, it is an anti-competitive measure.

There are some, rare cases where customers have been put back on ADSL when AT&T couldn't get the IPDSLAM connection working reliably. But if the IPDSLAM connection is solid, ADSL is generally not an option for the AT&T customer.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to AngryDallas
said by AngryDallas:

If it's really fiber optics, they should replace the line from their box to the wall jack with fiber optics and also give me a fiber optics cord to connect from the wall jack to the modem.

Not even Verizon (FiOS) and Google are doing this. "FTTH" is fiber to a box on the outside wall of the premises, and Ethernet into the premises. The box, properly called an "Optical Network Terminal" (acronym: ONT), is the modem. The premises is wired with Ethernet (CAT 5e, or CAT 6) to the ONT, and the customer just plugs in a router (but I don't know if it is generic, or proprietary).

In any case, most U-verse is FTTN, with copper to the premises; despite what the AT&T Marketoons believe/say.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

AngryDallas

join:2010-12-06
Dallas, TX
Thank you NormanS.

They said if I switch, they will waive the activation fee and send me a new modem, free of charge, with no monthly modem rental fee and the modem is for me to keep.

Still, after what I went through for 3 months to get my DSL for another 6 months at the discount price, I am afraid to switch.

I fear they are going to double bill me again and then I will have to do the same song and dance over and,

I am also afraid there will be an interruption of service although the lady said there won't be any:

She claims the switch will be painless.


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·row44

1 edit
I was forced to get uverse.
I had no internet for 3 weeks.
The uverse modems have nothing but problems and connectivity issues.
adsl was rock solid

Unless you need extra speed or tv, just avoid uverse.
Also since switching to uverse youtube has been very slow and buffing slow even though I have twice the speed. Never had a problem on adsl.
There is some kind of packet shaping, qos, or bad routing on uverse that was not on adsl users.

You will get double billed. They use two different call centers/billing systems from uverse and adsl and neither talk to each other which means after they sign up for uverse you have to call another number to cancel the adsl.
Then you will have a uverse and adsl bill for the month.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to AngryDallas
Do you know if yours is a CO connection? A changeover within the CO should have minimum downtime. It shouldn't take over 15 minutes to disconnect from the ADSL equipment, and connect to the IPDSLAM equipment. I did not go from ADSL to IPDSLAM, but I did go from AT&T ADSL to Sonic.net, LLC ADSL2+. The change took place within the CO, and I did not even notice much. My modem DSL light went red, so I rebooted the modem. The DSL light started flashing green, then went solid when it locked sync. One moment I was on ADSL, the next on ADSL2+. I did have to change my router; AT&T ADSL uses PPPoE, Sonic.net ADSL2+ uses DHCP. I could use the same modem (in fact, I set up the Sonic.net ADSL2+ modem before the change; it was able to sync to ADSL).

For a U-verse change, I expect you will have to change the modem; but if the transition is as smooth as mine, when the ADSL modem loses sync, pull it out and put in the IPDSLAM modem.

Alas, the IPDSLAM modem is not a pure modem, but a "Residential Gateway". I don't know how to configure it to work with a router; but there are threads in the forum on that subject.

I can't be upbeat about the billing; remember, SBC bought AT&T. So SBC management philosophy permeates the corporation. Billing has always been a sore point for SBC; expect trouble.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

AngryDallas

join:2010-12-06
Dallas, TX
I don't know what a CO connection is.

I was told by that lady that there will be no downtime but knowing AT&T track history on Uverse, from what I read in the Uverse forum of this website, I hope I won't be unlucky like many others.

I am also worried now, again from reading the other people's posts in the Uverse forum, that I will get double billed and then I have to do the same 3 months long song and verse of multiple telephone calls to get it adjusted.

I wonder if I can still call them back and cancel the order but then, they may want to charge me a termination fee and still send me a bill for Uverse.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
CO is Central Office; basically a facility which houses switching equipment, among other stuff. My change was made on CO gear, so I just wanted it out there that my experience did not extend to remote terminals (might, but I don't have that experience).

Unless there is a problem in the plant, the change shouldn't be troublesome.

Billing will be the big headache. SBC could never seem to get it right if the customer added, or deleted services. I felt fairly lucky when the DSL speed upgrade went through without a billing hitch.

If the order has been placed, canceling will not guaranty a billing problem escape. If anything, you will get double billed, cancel or not.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

AngryDallas

join:2010-12-06
Dallas, TX
I called to cancel but they (Migration) are telling me DSL in my area is going away after January.

If I don't get UVerse now, when DSL goes away and I decide to get it, I will have to pay the activation fee, installation fee and the price of the modem.

Right now they are waiving all those fees.

Of course knowing my past experience with AT&T, they maybe just saying that to get me to stay with UVerse.

So I guess I am stuck with UVerse.

TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
What version of U-Verse are they trying to move you to? AT&T has 2 version, IPDSL and U-Verse with TV.

Also in some areas, yes it is Fiber Optic, direct to the home, but its limited areas.

If you don't want to take the U-Verse route and upgrade and are happy with the slower speeds, I would suggest you sign up with a reseller/wholesaller and convert over to them. By doing so, AT&T still has to provide you with the DSL until they can remove that reseller from the network.

AngryDallas

join:2010-12-06
Dallas, TX
I am just going from DSL with no home phone service, the Elite 6MB to UVerse Internet only, same 6MB download speed and the upload speed will increase to 1MB from 768kb/sec

TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
Sounds like you're on IPDSL then. And if you don't want to switch then you need to order a phone line from AT&T- a basic metered line would do it and call a reseller/local ISP to do business with and get your 6meg without switching. But you will be required to do a share-line account since ISPs are not allowed to sell dry line DSL any longer.

AngryDallas

join:2010-12-06
Dallas, TX

1 edit
The modem arrived today.

It's a 3600HGV and it's almost as high as my PC tower.

Are you sure this is the right thing?

Shouldn't (with the advances in new technologies) it be getting smaller instead of getting bigger?