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TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
reply to Thane_Bitter

Re: [Rant] New Laptop with Win8 - do not like!

So anyone using 8 with the Start8 is the OS really much faster then 7? someone give me a key to 8 so I don't mind spending 5 bucks on Start8.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by TOPDAWG:

So anyone using 8 with the Start8 is the OS really much faster then 7? someone give me a key to 8 so I don't mind spending 5 bucks on Start8.

Yes it is faster, albeit I've run into some weird quirks with stuttering audio and video. Not sure if it's driver related, but I've also read about some input latency issues that people were bitching about during the previews.

alexpb1

join:2005-06-23
Barrie, ON
reply to Thane_Bitter

If you get a program to disable that metro start menu, I find Windows 8 to be excellent. To make a good OS and then go and ruin it by forcing everyone to use that stupid metro UI is mind boggling.

I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft includes the start menu option in the future in a service pack update or something. Too many people dislike the change.



Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium
join:2005-01-20
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico

said by alexpb1:

If you get a program to disable that metro start menu, I find Windows 8 to be excellent. To make a good OS and then go and ruin it by forcing everyone to use that stupid metro UI is mind boggling.

I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft includes the start menu option in the future in a service pack update or something. Too many people dislike the change.

Not sure it disabling it is a good idea; it seems that some of the functions (configuration, settings, etc) are split between the old system and the new one. It is like they just gave up when they started to code it and left bits here and there - neither is completely whole or functional. Overall I found Sever 2012 to be much more user friendly and logical to operate.

It would be nice if they did, however MS seems to be avoiding issuing service packs, there is more money in "refreshing it" as a new product.


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
reply to Thane_Bitter

I missed the window of opportunity to order a new system with Win 7 but fortunately I have several spare Win 7 Pro licenses and the only concern is appropriate driver support for the new hardware. If there is a problem installing 7 on a new system, it's going right back.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Thane_Bitter

said by Thane_Bitter:

Not sure it disabling it is a good idea; it seems that some of the functions (configuration, settings, etc) are split between the old system and the new one. It is like they just gave up when they started to code it and left bits here and there - neither is completely whole or functional. Overall I found Sever 2012 to be much more user friendly and logical to operate.

It would be nice if they did, however MS seems to be avoiding issuing service packs, there is more money in "refreshing it" as a new product.

Start8 allows you to leave your right Windows key bound to the "Metro" start screen, or CTRL-Start. Either one lets you still get into Metro in a pinch.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to alexpb1

The Start Menu will not be included in a future service pack because the desktop is eventually going away altogether, making a Start Menu unnecessary.

There may however, be a version of the Start Menu in the modern UI where all apps will eventually be launched from.

While desktops will continue have a place in the market, its heydey is over. The future is convergence and mobile/convertible.

»www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2412734,00.asp
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Thane_Bitter

It's possible, but the market has not yet indicated that convergence of desktops and tablets is what it actually wants. There has been a lot of resistance to Win8, leading to slow sales, and even then some of those sales are people who use primarily desktop apps (or even use something like Start8).

Surface Pro seems to be suffering, because most people aren't sure why they would want it instead of a similarly priced ultrabook. Surface RT is a decent product, but sales have sucked, and it doesn't really compete with desktops/laptops so much as it competes with the iPad.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to digitalfutur

said by digitalfutur:

The Start Menu will not be included in a future service pack because the desktop is eventually going away altogether, making a Start Menu unnecessary.

Microsoft's bread and butter is the corporate world, and for that reason the desktop isn't going anywhere until Microsoft can figure out a way to window Modern UI applications so that multiple programs/windows can be used simultaneously without having to switch between multiple full-screen sessions or fart around with limited workspace in the second.

Keep in mind, it was and still is called Windows for a reason.

zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

It's possible, but the market has not yet indicated that convergence of desktops and tablets is what it actually wants. There has been a lot of resistance to Win8, leading to slow sales, and even then some of those sales are people who use primarily desktop apps (or even use something like Start8).

That's kind of it. I like having my smartphone for portable internet, my 13" laptop for travel, and my desktop for home. I really don't like small screens except for the portability factor.

The only reason I'd use a smartphone/tablet for internet, is because I didn't have immediate access to something else. My over all preference is still to use a pc with mouse/keyboard/full sized screen for most things.

I guess what's changed is the gaps between pc upgrades. I used to buy a new one every 3 years and the gap between my last two were nearly 5 years. I imagine I'm not the only once. People are still using PC's/laptops but technology is getting to the point where upgrades aren't need as often. Since Microsoft pushes their new OS on the newest hardware it affects their bottom line.

I'm in no rush to upgrade to an OS that needs me to pay $5 to make it operate more like the OS I already have. MS seems to have put all their eggs in the tablet basket, but I'm not sure that will pay off. If I were them I would of hedge the bet and made the metro/desktop interfaces a choice so they could win on both accounts.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

1 edit
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

Microsoft's bread and butter is the corporate world, and for that reason the desktop isn't going anywhere

Yea, I shake my head every time I see one of these articles or some of the posts in various areas of this forum, clearly written by teenagers who haven't participated professionally in 'the real world'. This whole mobile convergence idea, get back to me in 5 years and tell me how well it allowed people to work with large spreadsheets and type up documents.

The only 'cutting edge' attempt I've seen at using a mobile device is a company trying to migrate their MSDS and SOP documentation to iPads... but then they found document conversation software was shit so they gave up and they're re-evaluating it this month, to see if they can use Windows RT w/Excel. It's still not a desktop replacement, it's an enhancement to the way things are done now.

I've also seen a backlash against BYOD at two large multinationals, to the point where mobile phones are banned, so I'm not entirely sure this convergence will happen to the point some young folks would like. From what I've seen, BYOD = Facebook at work to navigate corporate firewalls.


FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
reply to Thane_Bitter

Sure glad I grabbed a copy of Win7 when I bought the parts for my Black Friday box.

FaxCap



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Wolfie00

said by Wolfie00:

I missed the window of opportunity to order a new system with Win 7 but fortunately I have several spare Win 7 Pro licenses and the only concern is appropriate driver support for the new hardware. If there is a problem installing 7 on a new system, it's going right back.

I don't think there will be driver issues for Win7 for many years to come...
--



Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8

Not for retail components, but there well might be for OEM hardware. Like if Dell comes up with a new video chipset that only Windows 8 supports, because neither Microsoft, Dell, or the chipset provider had any incentive to develop a Win 7 driver.

I had the reverse problem on an old laptop -- older hardware, newer OS -- which you would think would be a no-brainer since the hardware was very recent. It dates back to the Vista days but I got it with XP, and later upgraded to 7. Win 7 did not have native support for the video chipset which had only been discontinued less than a year before, and couldn't run advanced video features like Aero. Luckily, after doing a bunch of research I was able to find a particular version of a Vista driver that worked perfectly with Win 7 (none of the others did) but AMD had no interest whatsoever in providing a proper supported driver for it.
--
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts."
Daniel Patrick Moynihan



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

Yeah laptops, especially cheapie ones are sometimes like this... I've encountered similar issues with Vista laptops that I had a helluva time finding XP drivers for obscure audio drivers or some other crap that didnt have backward XP drivers...

This was especially a pisser when Vista came out, and everyone hated it so much they were changing back to XP...

But with self built pc's this isnt a problem.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Wolfie00

OEM hardware almost always had a retail counterpart. Even if there is no "official" driver listed on a manufacturers website there is almost always an OEM driver available that either works outright, or you can make work with little effort. You're not going to run into any real issues.

The only real difference between Visa and Windows 7 video drivers are WDDM 1.0 support in Vista and 1.1 support in Windows 7. To the end user, that means nothing. You can still use Ethernet, Sound and other non-video peripheral drivers from as far back as Windows 2000 on 32-bit versions of Windows 7.



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

I had a real issue with a Dell Studio laptop that came with Vista a few years ago...

Going back to XP all the audio drivers that would work, would screw up the onboard microphone, so it was useless for video conferencing...

It took some people getting together in a forum to hack a working driver for it...

Problem is that it wasn't the common realtek audio, it was some weird "IDT Audio" that is not commonly used....
--



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by HiVolt:

Problem is that it wasn't the common realtek audio, it was some weird "IDT Audio" that is not commonly used....

... that's because IDT Audio is IDT Audio, not Realtek audio. HD Audio was a pain in the ass back in the XP days. You typically needed to install an HD Audio driver for Windows XP, and then the actual codec driver for the manufacturer of the codec. Still, I've gotten that exact setup working with IDT Audio drivers more times than I can count. Not only that, but Dell had a shitload of Vostro and Latitudes that used the same audio codec with XP downgrade rights, you could have just downloaded the audio driver for them and it would have worked on your Studio.


Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON
reply to urbanriot

said by urbanriot:

I've also need a backlash against BYOD

English pls


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

Bring Your Own Device



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

Not only that, but Dell had a shitload of Vostro and Latitudes that used the same audio codec with XP downgrade rights, you could have just downloaded the audio driver for them and it would have worked on your Studio.

Trust me, this was a very specific case... Yes audio in general worked, but the microphone didn't... there was an entire blog dedicated to this, but it is now defunct...
--



Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

Bring Your Own Device

not that part


Dones

join:2008-02-14
Toronto, ON
reply to Thane_Bitter

I upgraded to windows 8 because I could get it for 15 bucks. First legitimate copy of windows I bought. Windows 8 isn't that bad either so win for me.



Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
reply to Thane_Bitter

As a side note, I might add that I was (needlessly) worried that some Windows update or other might wipe out my unofficial Vista driver in Win 7, but that never happened. I only run Windows update when I have to, but it's been run a few times, and recently I even ran the full SP1 update, and Win 7 was somehow smart enough not to replace the Vista driver with a "newer, better" one that would have broken my system!



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to Dones

said by Dones:

Windows 8 isn't that bad either so win for me.

I have Win 8 Pro upgrade on my laptop. It is easy to learn; faster than Win 7; and after a couple days I felt right at home using Win 8.

Here are some tips & tricks:
»gizmodo.com/5955139/windows-8-su···karounds
--
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Last Parade

said by Last Parade:

said by Gone:

Bring Your Own Device

not that part

Standard documents used in larger corporations for things like emergency procedures, storage procedures, 'what to do when this button lights up' procedures, production reports, injury reports, 'things are okay' reports, etc. The copious amounts of paperwork to either read or write when you find yourself in a large manufacturing plant.


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to Thane_Bitter

Whats the Window of opportunity (no pun intended) on buying a Windows 7 OEM license? I see still available on Directcanada.com but Windows 8 is cheaper so its like they're wanting you to go to 8 instead of 7 (has 8 at about 85 bucks and Win7 at about 120 or so)?



urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3

I'd expect to see stock for another 5 months.



Black Box

join:2002-12-21
reply to nitzguy

The difference is from Microsoft. They've dropped the prices fro Windows 8 to give users an incentive to move to it. Not really working from what I read here and elsewhere.
--
Keep It Safe, Stupid!
Yes, I CanChat. Can You?



urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

There's also speculation that the recent widespread piracy of Windows 8 using the MCE activation trick was based on information 'leaked' by Microsoft to push the 'warez community' onto their new OS since they felt it would influence the legal market.