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nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
reply to buzz_4_20

Re: Wow, I can't see this being abused...

Don't understand why we everyone isn't required to wear little audio recording devices and GPS trackers that track and record everything.

You know, because not having this "can hinder law enforcement investigations."


XANAVirus
Premium
join:2012-03-03
Lavalette, WV
Reviews:
·Callcentric
So who cares if there is a possibility that this maybe could hinder a law enforcement investigation?

Let them work for their cases, don't hand them data on a platter and expect them to return results.

What ever happened to
A) doing stressful work on the job (i.e. having to stress out over the fact that you're having a hard time gaining results)?

and

B) having to actually do things in order to gather data (for the investigation)?

Telco

join:2008-12-19
reply to nothing00
Bit of a stretch there. The United States has one of the worst organized crime and homicide rates of any developed country. In addition, more and more of the country now resembles a lawless 3rd world country, yet we continue to be paranoid about law enforcement.

As with anything nowadays, I prefer to look to advanced nations that are beating us and examine (learn) how they are doing things. Evidently, 3rd world nations and ourselves are left with a paranoia against law enforcement; with folks in both failing to connect the dots as to why both are crime-ridden.


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

1 recommendation

Paranoia? Why? Because just because they make up evidence, lie to protect one another, tase and beat people for no reason, go on fishing expeditions (Petraeus is a good example), have (with enthusiastic cooperation of the DA's office) put countless innocent people behind bars, act as revenue offices instead of protecting the public good, review people's phone records and email with no oversight or justification, and...?

Left to their own judgement they'll do terrible things out of expediency and simply because some of them are terrible people. They need laws governing their behavior just as much as the rest of us. In fact, more so because they have much greater authority.

Something about great power and great responsibility should come to mind.

Telco

join:2008-12-19
Versus the alternative, where the private sector (individuals), Wall street ,and criminals run amok, without any accountability whatsoever.

Like I pointed out, we have to models in action here. One model, is used by advanced first world nations, where there is rational and logical law enforcement.

Then you have the 3rd world / American model, where there is little government and no proactive law enforcement. The end result of the two approaches, in 2012, speaks for itself.

Our approach has failed miserably at dealing with crime and it's little surprise that more and more of America now coincidentally resembles a crime-ridden 3rd world country - this is reality.


whiteshp

join:2002-03-05
Xenia, OH
reply to nothing00
It's called a cell phone (gps inside). Your wireless provider already tracks your movement patterns to sell the data to advertisers.


NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Telco
said by Telco:

Evidently, 3rd world nations and ourselves are left with a paranoia against law enforcement;

Yeah, paranoia... tell that to the folks at »www.innocenceproject.org/

music4praise

join:2006-02-22
Big Rapids, MI
reply to Telco
What advanced nations are you talking about? And what, specifically not generally, makes them advanced in this case?


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
reply to Telco
I don't like your alternative. I'm happy to live in a world where I'm afraid of the evil deeds of criminals rather than the evil deeds of authorities.

Telco

join:2008-12-19
reply to music4praise
said by music4praise:

What advanced nations are you talking about? And what, specifically not generally, makes them advanced in this case?

Western Europe, Scandinavian countries, Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand etc etc etc.

Their quality of life, modern infrastructure, low crime rates, robust economies, low rates of poverty and so forth make them advanced.


Telco

join:2008-12-19
reply to NOCTech75
said by NOCTech75:

Yeah, paranoia... tell that to the folks at »www.innocenceproject.org/

For starters, 96% of those cases on the site occurred prior to the 00's. Forensics have improved rapidly since then, but of course is still not perfect. Really life isn't CSI after all.

Not to mention, if you weigh up the number of cases that go unsolved versus those committed wrongly, it's probably in the 0.000X%.

Look at all of the homicides that go unsolved every single year. Now compare them to advanced cities like London, where Cameras line the streets. London has more people living in a higher density (more chance of crime), than almost every single American city combined. Yet, their homicide rate per capita is a fraction of Chicago.

I remember seeing a guy beaten and robbed during the protests in London. The cameras recorded the incident and the dirt-bag was caught and he was charged.

No chance in hell would he have been caught in most of our dilapidated cities, as there isn't the means there to find and convict them. It's why gangs and organized crime are so rampant, in every single one of our cities.

clone

join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US

1 recommendation

reply to Telco
So, let me get this straight, these countries are more "advanced" than the United States because they have allowed the police state in?

*chuckles at your naivete*

I'd rather have liberty in a hellhole than a utopian police state, thank you very much.

clone

join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
reply to Telco
People are paranoid about law enforcement in 3rd world countries because law enforcement in 3rd world countries are the employees of despotic tyrants. The same thing is happening here, which is why you are seeing the same results. Despotic tyrants breed crime.

Correlation does not indicate causation. I think, however, that you probably know that full well.
Expand your moderator at work


NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Telco

Re: Wow, I can't see this being abused...

said by Telco:

said by NOCTech75:

Yeah, paranoia... tell that to the folks at »www.innocenceproject.org/

For starters, 96% of those cases on the site occurred prior to the 00's. Forensics have improved rapidly since then, but of course is still not perfect. Really life isn't CSI after all.

Not to mention, if you weigh up the number of cases that go unsolved versus those committed wrongly, it's probably in the 0.000X%.

Oh well, that makes it acceptable.. killing the wrong guy, woohoo! Put em in jail for life, while the actual criminal walks just because law enforcement wanted somebody.. that is a-ok!
Expand your moderator at work


Smokey
I'd rather be skiing
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Wild West
reply to XANAVirus

Re: Wow, I can't see this being abused...

With a warrant, I can get access to your land line records and record your conversations.

With that same warrant, I can get the same results from your cellphone calls and emails.

That same warrant however can not get text messages that you sent*, unless the provider stores them * on an active surveillance warrant real time texts can be intercepted and stored but this does little to show past criminal activity on that phone

The purpose of this is to keep the playing field even across telecos. Just like the above story says, some keep records, some don't. This is not a secret to those who use these services for criminal activity.
--
Para Bellum!!
Expand your moderator at work

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

reply to Telco

Re: Wow, I can't see this being abused...

said by Telco:

said by music4praise:

What advanced nations are you talking about? And what, specifically not generally, makes them advanced in this case?

Western Europe, Scandinavian countries, Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand etc etc etc.

Their quality of life, modern infrastructure, low crime rates, robust economies, low rates of poverty and so forth make them advanced.

Yes, because the decades running recession, cultural tendency to be conformist, and strict laws on owning anything more deadly than a steak knife have nothing to do with that (at least in the case of Japan).

As far as poverty goes, you must be joking, Western Europe has more people on welfare per capita than the United States. In addition Western Europe is facing the biggest economic crisis since the Great Depression, and many of the Western European nations are facing stagnant economies and the risk of defaulting on their loans.

Spain: Population 47,190,493
Unemployed Over 5,000,000 (9.5%)
Population living below the poverty line: 19.8%

United States: Population 311,591,917
Unemployed Around 24,600,000 (7.9%)
Population living below the poverty line: 15%

Japan: Population living below the poverty line: 16%
Unemployed: 4.2%
Germany: Population living below the poverty line: 15.5%
Unemployed 5.4%

Those countries aren't the utopias the media and you believe them to be.


tc1uscg

join:2005-03-09
Clinton Township, MI
reply to nothing00
said by nothing00:

Don't understand why we everyone isn't required to wear little audio recording devices and GPS trackers that track and record everything.

You know, because not having this "can hinder law enforcement investigations."

They have yet to figure out how to make the battery last more then 90 days. Once they do, look out.


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
reply to Smokey
said by Smokey:

With a warrant, I can get access to your land line records and record your conversations.

With that same warrant, I can get the same results from your cellphone calls and emails.

That same warrant however can not get text messages that you sent*, unless the provider stores them * on an active surveillance warrant real time texts can be intercepted and stored but this does little to show past criminal activity on that phone

The purpose of this is to keep the playing field even across telecos. Just like the above story says, some keep records, some don't. This is not a secret to those who use these services for criminal activity.

I totally agree. If you want to keep the playing field among telcos then let's do it. We'll have the same sort of retention system we have now with voice. No records are kept unless there's a warrant.

Why place everyone under surveillance who's not under a warrant?

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit
said by nothing00:

Why place everyone under surveillance who's not under a warrant?

Simple comrade, it is easy to track political dissidents this way.

The Antihero

join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
reply to Smokey
said by Smokey:

With a warrant, I can get access to your land line records and record your conversations.

But you can't get a recording of a conversation that's already happened. Although I'm sure that's on the wish list of these sleazy politicians as well.


TimesRev

@optonline.net
reply to Telco
I've lived in the UK, Japan, and spent significant time in over 20 other countrys.

"Telco" is simply blinded by anti-American bias. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

First of all, most of Western Europe is suffering from terrible economic performance, with enormous unemploymnet rates. The UK, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, and most other countrys on his list are economic basket cases. Japan has been in trouble for over a decade. Scandanvian countries are always cited by liberals as model countries, yet they ignore the fact that these populations are miniscule. The population of all the Scandanavian countrys combined do not equal that of a single large US city. They are also culturally homogenous, which makes establishing and agreeing on societal norms of behaviour much easier. Scandanavian countrys also benefit from the enormous revenues generated by selling off natural resources, especially oil, but also fish, timber, and minerals.

Most American's would be appalled at some of the conditions average Europeans have to contend with. There's plenty to like in Europe, but it's not the fantasyland some like to portray.


lolomg

@comcast.net
reply to nothing00
said by nothing00:

said by Smokey:

With a warrant, I can get access to your land line records and record your conversations.

With that same warrant, I can get the same results from your cellphone calls and emails.

That same warrant however can not get text messages that you sent*, unless the provider stores them * on an active surveillance warrant real time texts can be intercepted and stored but this does little to show past criminal activity on that phone

The purpose of this is to keep the playing field even across telecos. Just like the above story says, some keep records, some don't. This is not a secret to those who use these services for criminal activity.

I totally agree. If you want to keep the playing field among telcos then let's do it. We'll have the same sort of retention system we have now with voice. No records are kept unless there's a warrant.

Why place everyone under surveillance who's not under a warrant?

how do you know you are under investigation or have a warrant? other than a bench warrant that is served in person to you. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm oh snap you dont! comrade!