 John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5 | reply to pandora
Re: The renovation continues ... today new 400 amp service! $0.0690 per kW here in Oregon for the first 12,000 kWh, then it drops to $0.0460 for all kWh past that. |
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 nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8
 ·Charter
 ·surpasshosting
| reply to pandora
That just confirms what I said. A single phase 75 KW transformer can supply *roughly* 320A @ 100% load.
The utility knows that you'll never draw close to that. The chances of everybody turning everything on at the same time and blowing the transformer or the fuse are slim. If it does happen, they deal with it then.
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 leiboldPremium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:6
 ·SONIC.NET
| reply to cdru
said by cdru:Even 400 amps doesn't fit a 75 kVA transformer. 240 volts * 400 amps = 96 kVA. It would be 125% overloaded at 400 amps alone, not to mention the other 5 homes. Technically correct, but not relevant. The 75 kVA rating is the load limit in order to maintain the manufacturer specified service life of the transformer.
Utility companies are well aware that they can far exceed that rating at the expense of a shorter lifespan for the transformer. Given how many pole mounted transformers around here show clear signs of overheating (and how often some of them pop) it appears that our utility company prefers the more frequent replacement to proper sizing of the transformers.
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 tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:8
·G4 Communications
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| said by leibold:Utility companies are well aware that they can far exceed that rating at the expense of a shorter lifespan for the transformer. Yup - I can attest to that from first hand experience.
When we built our house installed a 200A service plus 30A separately metered service for hot water. Except for kitchen stove appliances are electric. Even space heating is electric to backup wood stove.
We are 600 feet off the road so have our own pole pig. Power company installed a 10 KW transformer. Being the good engineer that I am felt obligated to point out that 200A x 240V is 48 KW. The supervisor smiled knowingly and said that was true but transformer has tremendous overload capacity. If we were able to overload it they would be happy to replace it.
Well that was 30+ years, a direct lightning strike, and two kids ago and the transformer is still going strong. It will probably still be there after I'm in the ground.
/tom |
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pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
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| reply to Draiman
said by Draiman:It breaks down to about 8.5 cents a Kwh for delivery and another 8.5 cents per Kwh for supplier for a total cost of 17 cents per Kwh fixed no matter what here. Then they have a surcharge they add if you exceed 1,000 Kwh a month. That raises the rate to about 20 cents per Kwh for all Kwh's over 1,000.
I'd be in trouble with a 1,000 Kwh limit. Fortunately that doesn't exist in Connecticut (yet).
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"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman" |
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pandoraPremium
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| reply to pandora
Tomorrow the first of 2 new 4 ton 18 SEER Goodman heat pumps is going to go live.
Would anyone mind if I snapped some shots and started a new thread about that?
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"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman" |
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 DraimanLet me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to pandora
said by pandora:said by Draiman:It breaks down to about 8.5 cents a Kwh for delivery and another 8.5 cents per Kwh for supplier for a total cost of 17 cents per Kwh fixed no matter what here. Then they have a surcharge they add if you exceed 1,000 Kwh a month. That raises the rate to about 20 cents per Kwh for all Kwh's over 1,000.
I'd be in trouble with a 1,000 Kwh limit. Fortunately that doesn't exist in Connecticut (yet). It's not a limit just an escalator to make people pay more for what they deem 'excessive' usage. I'm sure if Massachusetts can get away with it the other states won't be far behind. 
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 hitachi369Embrace Your RightsPremium
join:2001-10-03
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:4 | MI, or at least my energy provider, has a bump at 600 Kwh. |
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pandoraPremium
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Outland
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| reply to Draiman
said by Draiman:It's not a limit just an escalator to make people pay more for what they deem 'excessive' usage. I'm sure if Massachusetts can get away with it the other states won't be far behind.
My electric bill runs anywhere from 2,500 to 3,000 Kwh per month, depending on season and activity in the home. That's before we increase the size of our home.
Shouldn't the limit vary by home size and number of people residing in it?
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"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman" |
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DraimanLet me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| said by pandora:said by Draiman:It's not a limit just an escalator to make people pay more for what they deem 'excessive' usage. I'm sure if Massachusetts can get away with it the other states won't be far behind.
My electric bill runs anywhere from 2,500 to 3,000 Kwh per month, depending on season and activity in the home. That's before we increase the size of our home. Shouldn't the limit vary by home size and number of people residing in it? I think it should be as well. Why should a 2 bedroom condo and a 4 bedroom house be held to the same standard after all. I guess they figure if you can use more then 1,000 Kwh then you can afford the extra 3 cents a Kwh too.
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leiboldPremium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:6 Reviews:
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| reply to pandora
said by pandora:Shouldn't the limit vary by home size and number of people residing in it? It kind of does here. The utility sets a baseline amount that is based in part on the type of home, whether gas or electricity is used for hot water and heating as well as the climate zone it is located in (determining the number of heating or cooling days). That calculated baseline amount is less (50-60% in summer, 60-70% in winter) then what a typical home would consume as "an incentive to conserve energy" meaning that nearly everybody pays more then tier 1 rates (up to 100% of baseline). In total there are 5 tiers with pricing going up significantly after tier 2 (101% to 130% of baseline).
From personal experience it is no problem at all to get into tier 5 (over 300% of baseline).
Shouldn't it get cheaper if you buy in bulk ? 
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pandoraPremium
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Outland
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| said by leibold:Shouldn't it get cheaper if you buy in bulk ?
I defer to my current signature. 
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"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman" |
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 Anonymous_AnonymousPremium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2 | reply to pandora
growing pot? That would be only reason to need 400 amp service |
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pandoraPremium
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Outland
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1 edit | reply to nunya
Here are some generator and propane tank pictures (with associated propane plumbing). The generator is not yet wired, but the propane is connected to it. It will be live within 2 weeks if all goes well. Without a battery it can't start (battery won't be installed until we are ready to go live with the unit).
My propane tank description seems redacted (after the post went up) the tank is 41" in circumference, 16' long and sits on a concrete pad 5' wide by 18' long.
The generator pad is oversized, and has underground cable to fit up to a 35 KW generator. We asked the propane folks to size the pipe to the generator to handle up to a 35 KW generator. The electric cable will also be sized for up to 35 KW when installed.
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"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman" |
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pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
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| reply to Anonymous_
said by Anonymous_:growing pot? That would be only reason to need 400 amp service
No, sorry, no cannabis here. Though it does demonstrate a certain mindset. The only reason you can imagine for 400 amp service is to grow pot??
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"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman" |
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TheMGPremium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:2 | reply to pandora
Strange as it may seem, it's cheaper for the utility to deal with the occasional overloaded transformer (and replace the failed transformers with a larger one), than to preemptively upgrade transformers "just in case" the load might be too much.
The average power consumption of most homes is well below their service capacity.
Also it is unlikely that all the homes will have peak consumption occurring at the same exact moment. Heating, A/C, and HWH will cycle at different times and people will be running their electric ranges and clothes dryers at slightly different times than other people. |
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| reply to pandora
400A service, 320A continuous.
The service entrance conductors can be sized according to 320A. |
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 Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt:said by leibold:Utility companies are well aware that they can far exceed that rating at the expense of a shorter lifespan for the transformer. Yup - I can attest to that from first hand experience. When we built our house installed a 200A service plus 30A separately metered service for hot water. Except for kitchen stove appliances are electric. Even space heating is electric to backup wood stove. We are 600 feet off the road so have our own pole pig. Power company installed a 10 KW transformer. Being the good engineer that I am felt obligated to point out that 200A x 240V is 48 KW. The supervisor smiled knowingly and said that was true but transformer has tremendous overload capacity. If we were able to overload it they would be happy to replace it. Well that was 30+ years, a direct lightning strike, and two kids ago and the transformer is still going strong. It will probably still be there after I'm in the ground. /tom That's interesting since my transformer that feeds 4 homes started out at 15 kva, changed to 25 kva, then 50 kva and now 75 kva all without any problems I'm aware of. I'm sure my 300 amp upgrade didn't trigger it since the original drop wire from when the house was 60 amp was installed. |
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Anonymous_AnonymousPremium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2 Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to pandora
said by pandora:said by Anonymous_:growing pot? That would be only reason to need 400 amp service
No, sorry, no cannabis here. Though it does demonstrate a certain mindset. The only reason you can imagine for 400 amp service is to grow pot?? Unless your running some industrial lighting equipment 400amp service is not need.
Most houses here that are 3k sq ft only use 150amp or 200amp service |
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 mattmagPremium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3 | reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt:Being the good engineer that I am felt obligated to point out that 200A x 240V is 48 KW. The supervisor smiled knowingly and said that was true but transformer has tremendous overload capacity.
I'm trying to recall exactly what the POCO guy said about the installation here. We're on a 15kW transformer by ourselves. Service for house is 200A. Seems he told me they figure it a bit differently than you did as 15kW / 120V = 125A, and that is *per leg*, so we would essentially have excess capacity with the current configuration. This of course assumes perfect load balancing.
Now, I may be wrong on that, its been awhile since that conversation came up. Just throwing it out for those who know more than me to cuss and discuss... |
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