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citizensin
The Deacon of the Bipartisan Party
Premium
join:2001-06-19
Fayette City, PA

California Lumber Products Assessment

Beginning January 1, 2013, a one percent (1%) assessment on purchases of lumber products and engineered wood products for use in California.

»www.mymotherlode.com/news/local/···ber.html

»www.boe.ca.gov/industry/lumber_products.html


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
Typical California...

HarryH3
Premium
join:2005-02-21
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

1 recommendation

reply to citizensin
The gov't needs more money, so more people can get "free" stuff. Wrap the tax proposal in "it's for the children" and/or "it will save the planet" and a few more pennies come out of everyones pockets...

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
Can we force California to secede? I really think we'd be better off without them. There is nothing they make that can't be duplicated in other states.


brian
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Lake Forest, CA
said by itguy05:

Can we force California to secede? I really think we'd be better off without them. There is nothing they make that can't be duplicated in other states.

No. This video is about Texas but it applies to CA too.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=S92fTz_-kQE


Also, you need our tax dollars. We pay more in to the federal government than what we get back. CA would probably do just fine on our own.

About the law... This is just what we need to get the construction industry going again. I'm glad we've completed all of our big home improvement projects.
--
flickr gallery | photo blog (rarely updated) | play mafia!

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

1 edit
said by brian:

you need our tax dollars. We pay more in to the federal government than what we get back. CA would probably do just fine on our own.

Naah, They film tons of shows in NYC and I'm sure that would increase. Ports would move to WA and OR. We can get produce from FL and other states. I seriously doubt we'd see a war if a state were to want to secede. The political falluout would be insane. Even Russia didn't do that back in the 80's and 90s when Eastern Europe split up.

Things would redistribute just fine.


Pacrat
Old and Cranky
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-10
Cortland, OH
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to citizensin
California could never secede from the Union. They couldn't survive without federal assistance. Of course... they could rejoin Mexico.


leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

1 recommendation

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Taken by itself, California would be the seventheighth largest economy in the world (apparently we dropped a spot in 2011). 1985 was the last year when California received more in Federal Services then it contributed in Federal Taxes. This means that the state would be better off financially if it seceded.

However even if secession was a theoretical possibility, good luck on getting northern and southern California to agree on anything
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
said by leibold:

1985 was the last year when California received more in Federal Services then it contributed in Federal Taxes. This means that the state would be better off financially if it seceded.

If you factor in though the cost of the federal doing it's job, there's a much larger deficit. Consider cost of maintaining military, borders, customs, post office, etc.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to leibold
said by leibold:

However even if secession was a theoretical possibility, good luck on getting northern and southern California to agree on anything

So we'll just send Southern California packing!


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
said by itguy05:

said by leibold:

However even if secession was a theoretical possibility, good luck on getting northern and southern California to agree on anything

So we'll just send Southern California packing!

I like that idea...


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to itguy05
"I seriously doubt we'd see a war if a state were to want to secede. "

Wouldn't be much of a war because they would outlaw guns and only allow citizens to carry rocks and sticks.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


brian
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Lake Forest, CA
said by battleop:

... they would outlaw guns ...

related: »www.ocregister.com/news/gun-3797···uns.html


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to leibold
said by leibold:

However even if secession was a theoretical possibility, good luck on getting northern and southern California to agree on anything

Already been considered:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_···c_state)


Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY
reply to citizensin
I love the fact that the tax is to encourage sustainable lumber usage practices. If it's truly the case then they shouldn't be taxing engineered lumber which makes the best use of every available part of a tree! Otherwise they should just call it what it is, a tax to put more money into the hands of the state!

Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Pacrat
said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
said by Oedipus:

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.

We would survive just fine... Your products would just become an import like we do from other countries. You aren't as high up on that pedestal as you think you are.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
+1

California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas are going to revert to Mexico in a few years anyhow. There is no way once the ethnic balance tips a little more that Washington will be able to stop it.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to brian
It's not a matter of if but when and to what extent. Obama has already said that he will go after certain types of guns.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.

Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1
reply to ropeguru
said by ropeguru:

said by Oedipus:

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.

We would survive just fine... Your products would just become an import like we do from other countries. You aren't as high up on that pedestal as you think you are.

Yeah, and we'd nail you for them. Wouldn't need your alleged surplus of federal assistance at that point, now would we? It's a moot point anyway because even though we're a backwards, liberal nanny state that puts the rights of illegals, gays, and the perpetually jobless ahead of everyone else (except for the hollywood types), we're not going anywhere.

Unlike California itself, though, I am going somewhere. Once I get my schooling done, I will be moving elsewhere.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 recommendation

said by Oedipus:

even though we're a backwards, liberal nanny state that puts the rights of illegals, gays, and the perpetually jobless ahead of everyone else (except for the Hollywood types), we're not going anywhere.

Unlike California itself, though, I am going somewhere. Once I get my schooling done, I will be moving elsewhere.

Good luck with your schooling and your escape from la-la land.

Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1
Thanks. I'm already counting the days...

hoyleysox
Premium
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA
reply to citizensin
According to this article the timber industry supported this tax because they become partially indemnified.

My tin foil hat says this 1% tax will be more than offset by revenue from reselling AB32 carbon credits. A perverse incentive of AB32 may be the encouragement of aggressive timber harvesting.

California consumers will pay a new tax to fund government oversight of the state's vast timber industry under a bill signed by Gov. Jerry Brown on Tuesday, relieving logging companies of the cost.

The measure also benefits the industry by restricting how much money government agencies can seek when suing for damages in wildfires caused by negligent practices. Federal prosecutors and members of President Obama's cabinet had fought the bill, which tightens the rules for tallying damages.

Timber company officials said the new arrangement would prevent the industry from being squeezed by government fees, onerous regulations and overzealous prosecutors.

They hope the new 1% tax on lumber sales, which takes effect Jan. 1 and is expected to raise $30 million a year, will lower their costs and make it easier to compete with out-of-state firms.

»articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/12···20120912

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to Oedipus
said by Oedipus:

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.

Like what? Citrus we can get from Florida and Brazil like always. Grapes are grown all over the US, lettuce and such can be grown just about anywhere. Again we'd do fine. Instead of paying farmers to grow corn or nothing at all they could grow those crops we get from CA.

Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1
said by itguy05:

said by Oedipus:

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.

Like what? Citrus we can get from Florida and Brazil like always. Grapes are grown all over the US, lettuce and such can be grown just about anywhere. Again we'd do fine. Instead of paying farmers to grow corn or nothing at all they could grow those crops we get from CA.

My point (veiled though it was) is that it's just as preposterous to say that California would wilt under the removal of "federal funding" as it is to say that the rest of the country could handle not having easy access to California's ag output. It's not really about what can be grown here that can't be elsewhere, it's about the volume that we can and do put out and the infrastructure that is in place to make that happen. Could the rest of the US survive without CA? Of course it could, given a bit of time to adjust. Could we in CA survive without this purported "federal assistance?" Absolutely. Maybe that would mean fewer unionized six-figure earning prison guards and shovel-leaning Caltrans workers.


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
reply to battleop
But those rocks and sticks would have to have foam padding on all their sharp edges or hard surfaces...


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
reply to ropeguru
Or we wouldn't export to the other C47... Lower food prices here if we've got more of it. Hawaii and Alaska probably wouldn't mind us sending more their way, either.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to BronsCon
And they would be taxed...


Pacrat
Old and Cranky
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-10
Cortland, OH
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to leibold
But... would California's agriculture be able to flourish without draining water from the Colorado River? As a "stand-alone" entity, the agriculture is pretty-much screwed without water.
--
Keep your eye on the ball, your shoulder to the wheel, your nose to the grindstone, and your ear to the ground. Now, try to work in that position!!!


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Given that the California border runs down the center of the river, where the two meet, we'd still be entitled to the water flowing on our side. What's your point?