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alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to ropeguru

Re: Reenforcing floor joists vs. thicker subfloor

Don't go Dricore. They're convenient and easy, but for the same money you can get a better result.

Here's my basement's floor's layers (From bottom to top)

- Landscape fabric (To avoid clicky noise of the material over it)

- DeltaMS (bumpy membrane wrap like Platon, but higher PSI capacity). That can make clicky noises over the concrete without the landscape fabric.


- 1.5" XPS boards

- 3/4" plywood boards

- Vinyl fake wood

So you'll have air movement underneath due to the deltams (Same idea with Dricore), but you'll also have added insulation from the 1.5" XPS (unlike dricore) and 3/4 real plywood instead of 1/2" OSB from dricore.

Cost comparison:

DeltaMS is 150$ for a roll of 6.6 x 65.6, so that's 433 sqft.
You'll need 13 to 14 panels of 8x4 to cover that area, let's be pessimist and go 14 panels.

14 x 35$ of 1.5" XPS
14 x 25$ of 3/4 plywood
1 x 150$ DeltaMS
-----------------------
990$ for 433 sqft

Dircore is about 7$ for 4 sqft, so 759$ for the same space.

So you pay 231$ more, but you have that 1.5" of XPS in there.

If you remove the 1.5" of XPS, you get 500$ for the project vs 759$ for dricore (and then you'd have identical results, if not even better).

However it requires tapcons, while Dricore can just "lay" there. For me, anchoring the subfloor is a bonus.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
Part of my issue is financing. I cannot afford the lump sum up front. Since I can buy the DriCore from Home Depot, I can stretch out the payment for up to 24 months.

I do have one question though. If you are anchoring the plywood to the concrete with tapcons, that should pull things down tight. Why would you get clicking from the DeltaMS?


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to alkizmo
I looked at doing platon and plywood/OSB... With my local material costs, it was only about a 5-10% premium to go with Dricore; and the ease of install was worth it...


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

2 edits
said by ropeguru:

Part of my issue is financing. I cannot afford the lump sum up front. Since I can buy the DriCore from Home Depot, I can stretch out the payment for up to 24 months.

The materials I listed are available at Home Depot as well. Well, DeltaMS might be trickier, but Platon should be available as a substitute (but less PSI capacity).

said by ropeguru:

I do have one question though. If you are anchoring the plywood to the concrete with tapcons, that should pull things down tight. Why would you get clicking from the DeltaMS?

You never know where the concrete slab might be uneven and still leave a gap. Also over the years, the plywood and XPS might compress a bit, making things a little bit loose.

The landscape fabric was only 15$, so I figured it's a no brainer.

said by LazMan:

I looked at doing platon and plywood/OSB... With my local material costs, it was only about a 5-10% premium to go with Dricore; and the ease of install was worth it...

I'm surprised, you either pay dirt cheap for Dricore, or too much for platon+plywood. My calculation above shows that it's 259$ cheaper to go Platon/Delta + plywood (if you don't add XPS).
If you included XPS in your calculation, then the premium is all about the added insulation of the XPS. Warm floor = yay.

It might be harder to install, but only slightly. Don't forget that each 4x8 is equal to 8 dricore panels. It's 8 tapcons per 4x8, which is a lot, ya but the solidness of the installation is uncomparable.

I have more faith on the floor's stability when it's a single piece 4x8 section with 8 tapcons, compared to 8 pieces of 2x2 that's just dropped there.
I can actually use my subfloor before the final floor is installed.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
That might be the case in Canada, but here in the States, I do not show platon nor the Delta products available from Home Depot. The Delta-FL is available via special order from Lowes though. But I do not have the same deal nor a credit card from Lowes.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
That's a shame.
Don't forget you can still buy as much as possible from HD and just pay up front on the Delta at Lowes.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to alkizmo
I am not seeing the prices you are showing. I would use the Delta-FL as that is what it was designed for and Delta-MS was not designed for interior floor space.

I am getting the following breakdown:

Dricore:

130 x 6.48 = $842.40

Delta-FL:

2 rolls 4' 9" by 68' 6" x 193.52 = 387.04
2 rolls tape x 13.95 = 27.90
20 23/32 T&G sub floor x 29.47 = 589.40
20 sheets XPS = 319.68
Tapcons = 50

Total $1374

That is over a $500 difference. I cannot get the cost down as you provided. I think a good carpet padding then carpet ofr most areas will help a lot with the warmth factor too.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
You can use DeltaMS. There is a huge thread on redflagforums (canadian forum) regarding using DeltaFL vs. MS, some people even called the manufacturer, to be told that the only difference between the two is that the FL uses new plastic while the MS uses recycled plastic. So there's a chance of a plastic smell on the MS. Personally I didn't smell anything on the MS i bought.

So that's 80$ difference right there. Also with the MS, you can just buy one roll and buy a small roll of FL to fill the last 100 sqft needed for about 70$. So instead of 2x 193.52$, you have 1 x 150$ + 70$ = 220$ vs your 387$, so 167$ reduction.

The tape is a bonus. You're sealing seams, seams that also exist with dricore (and that's a lot more seams).

The T&G, you seem to be taking the price of plywood and not OSB. Dricore is OSB. If you're on a budget, 8x4s 23/32 OSB is 20.39$. That's a 181.60$ reduction

XPS is an optional bonus that costs a lot and isn't comparable to the cost of the dricore. But already, with the reductions I mentionned, you're only at 151$ more WITH the XPS. Without XPS, you'd be at 168$ CHEAPER than Dricore.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:

You never know where the concrete slab might be uneven and still leave a gap. Also over the years, the plywood and XPS might compress a bit, making things a little bit loose.

The landscape fabric was only 15$, so I figured it's a no brainer.

How exactly does the landscape fabric help with this?


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
said by robbin:

How exactly does the landscape fabric help with this?

As you can see in the picture of the DeltaMS, it's dimpled plastic. Once/if it gets a little bit loose and starts moving up and down when you walk over the floor, it would hit the concrete slab and do click-clack noises. The landscape fabric acts as padding so there isn't that noise.

This thread is what inspired me to do this sort of subflooring (with landscape fabric).
»forums.redflagdeals.com/subfloor···-610572/
It's also where they discuss using DeltaMS instead of DeltaFL.
It's long but interesting.