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Pacrat
Old and Cranky
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-10
Cortland, OH
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to citizensin

Re: California Lumber Products Assessment

California could never secede from the Union. They couldn't survive without federal assistance. Of course... they could rejoin Mexico.


leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

1 recommendation

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Taken by itself, California would be the seventheighth largest economy in the world (apparently we dropped a spot in 2011). 1985 was the last year when California received more in Federal Services then it contributed in Federal Taxes. This means that the state would be better off financially if it seceded.

However even if secession was a theoretical possibility, good luck on getting northern and southern California to agree on anything
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
said by leibold:

1985 was the last year when California received more in Federal Services then it contributed in Federal Taxes. This means that the state would be better off financially if it seceded.

If you factor in though the cost of the federal doing it's job, there's a much larger deficit. Consider cost of maintaining military, borders, customs, post office, etc.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to leibold
said by leibold:

However even if secession was a theoretical possibility, good luck on getting northern and southern California to agree on anything

So we'll just send Southern California packing!


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
said by itguy05:

said by leibold:

However even if secession was a theoretical possibility, good luck on getting northern and southern California to agree on anything

So we'll just send Southern California packing!

I like that idea...


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to leibold
said by leibold:

However even if secession was a theoretical possibility, good luck on getting northern and southern California to agree on anything

Already been considered:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_ ··· c_state)

Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Pacrat
said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
said by Oedipus:

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.

We would survive just fine... Your products would just become an import like we do from other countries. You aren't as high up on that pedestal as you think you are.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
+1

California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas are going to revert to Mexico in a few years anyhow. There is no way once the ethnic balance tips a little more that Washington will be able to stop it.

Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1
reply to ropeguru
said by ropeguru:

said by Oedipus:

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.

We would survive just fine... Your products would just become an import like we do from other countries. You aren't as high up on that pedestal as you think you are.

Yeah, and we'd nail you for them. Wouldn't need your alleged surplus of federal assistance at that point, now would we? It's a moot point anyway because even though we're a backwards, liberal nanny state that puts the rights of illegals, gays, and the perpetually jobless ahead of everyone else (except for the hollywood types), we're not going anywhere.

Unlike California itself, though, I am going somewhere. Once I get my schooling done, I will be moving elsewhere.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 recommendation

said by Oedipus:

even though we're a backwards, liberal nanny state that puts the rights of illegals, gays, and the perpetually jobless ahead of everyone else (except for the Hollywood types), we're not going anywhere.

Unlike California itself, though, I am going somewhere. Once I get my schooling done, I will be moving elsewhere.

Good luck with your schooling and your escape from la-la land.

Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1
Thanks. I'm already counting the days...

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to Oedipus
said by Oedipus:

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.

Like what? Citrus we can get from Florida and Brazil like always. Grapes are grown all over the US, lettuce and such can be grown just about anywhere. Again we'd do fine. Instead of paying farmers to grow corn or nothing at all they could grow those crops we get from CA.

Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1
said by itguy05:

said by Oedipus:

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.

Like what? Citrus we can get from Florida and Brazil like always. Grapes are grown all over the US, lettuce and such can be grown just about anywhere. Again we'd do fine. Instead of paying farmers to grow corn or nothing at all they could grow those crops we get from CA.

My point (veiled though it was) is that it's just as preposterous to say that California would wilt under the removal of "federal funding" as it is to say that the rest of the country could handle not having easy access to California's ag output. It's not really about what can be grown here that can't be elsewhere, it's about the volume that we can and do put out and the infrastructure that is in place to make that happen. Could the rest of the US survive without CA? Of course it could, given a bit of time to adjust. Could we in CA survive without this purported "federal assistance?" Absolutely. Maybe that would mean fewer unionized six-figure earning prison guards and shovel-leaning Caltrans workers.


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
reply to ropeguru
Or we wouldn't export to the other C47... Lower food prices here if we've got more of it. Hawaii and Alaska probably wouldn't mind us sending more their way, either.


Pacrat
Old and Cranky
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-10
Cortland, OH
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to leibold
But... would California's agriculture be able to flourish without draining water from the Colorado River? As a "stand-alone" entity, the agriculture is pretty-much screwed without water.
--
Keep your eye on the ball, your shoulder to the wheel, your nose to the grindstone, and your ear to the ground. Now, try to work in that position!!!


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Given that the California border runs down the center of the river, where the two meet, we'd still be entitled to the water flowing on our side. What's your point?


Pacrat
Old and Cranky
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-10
Cortland, OH
kudos:2
Reviews:
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But that's not where you draw your water from. Lake Mead is where Cal draws the greatest percentage of water from. And Lake Mead shares no borders with California. There was a special on one of the Discovery Channels some time ago about Hoover Dam. One of the main purposes of the dam was to create Lake Mead to supply southern California with water for its agriculture. No lake, no farming!!!
--
Keep your eye on the ball, your shoulder to the wheel, your nose to the grindstone, and your ear to the ground. Now, try to work in that position!!!


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
You asked a specific question, which I answered withing the confines of what you specified. Moving goalposts is not how you win an argument (that I didn't even know we were having) with me, sorry.