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Pacrat
Old and Cranky
MVM
join:2001-03-10
Cortland, OH

1 recommendation

Pacrat to citizensin

MVM

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Re: California Lumber Products Assessment

California could never secede from the Union. They couldn't survive without federal assistance. Of course... they could rejoin Mexico.

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

1 recommendation

leibold

MVM

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Taken by itself, California would be the seventheighth largest economy in the world (apparently we dropped a spot in 2011). 1985 was the last year when California received more in Federal Services then it contributed in Federal Taxes. This means that the state would be better off financially if it seceded.

However even if secession was a theoretical possibility, good luck on getting northern and southern California to agree on anything

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru

MVM

said by leibold:

1985 was the last year when California received more in Federal Services then it contributed in Federal Taxes. This means that the state would be better off financially if it seceded.

If you factor in though the cost of the federal doing it's job, there's a much larger deficit. Consider cost of maintaining military, borders, customs, post office, etc.
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

itguy05 to leibold

Member

to leibold
said by leibold:

However even if secession was a theoretical possibility, good luck on getting northern and southern California to agree on anything

So we'll just send Southern California packing!

ropeguru
Premium Member
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

ropeguru

Premium Member

said by itguy05:

said by leibold:

However even if secession was a theoretical possibility, good luck on getting northern and southern California to agree on anything

So we'll just send Southern California packing!

I like that idea...

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

John Galt6 to leibold

Premium Member

to leibold
said by leibold:

However even if secession was a theoretical possibility, good luck on getting northern and southern California to agree on anything

Already been considered:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je ··· c_state)
Moffetts
join:2005-05-09
San Mateo, CA

1 recommendation

Moffetts to Pacrat

Member

to Pacrat
said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.

ropeguru
Premium Member
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

ropeguru

Premium Member

said by Moffetts:

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.

We would survive just fine... Your products would just become an import like we do from other countries. You aren't as high up on that pedestal as you think you are.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

+1

California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas are going to revert to Mexico in a few years anyhow. There is no way once the ethnic balance tips a little more that Washington will be able to stop it.
Moffetts
join:2005-05-09
San Mateo, CA

Moffetts to ropeguru

Member

to ropeguru
said by ropeguru:

said by Moffetts:

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.

We would survive just fine... Your products would just become an import like we do from other countries. You aren't as high up on that pedestal as you think you are.

Yeah, and we'd nail you for them. Wouldn't need your alleged surplus of federal assistance at that point, now would we? It's a moot point anyway because even though we're a backwards, liberal nanny state that puts the rights of illegals, gays, and the perpetually jobless ahead of everyone else (except for the hollywood types), we're not going anywhere.

Unlike California itself, though, I am going somewhere. Once I get my schooling done, I will be moving elsewhere.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

1 recommendation

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by Moffetts:

even though we're a backwards, liberal nanny state that puts the rights of illegals, gays, and the perpetually jobless ahead of everyone else (except for the Hollywood types), we're not going anywhere.

Unlike California itself, though, I am going somewhere. Once I get my schooling done, I will be moving elsewhere.

Good luck with your schooling and your escape from la-la land.
Moffetts
join:2005-05-09
San Mateo, CA

Moffetts

Member

Thanks. I'm already counting the days...
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

itguy05 to Moffetts

Member

to Moffetts
said by Moffetts:

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.

Like what? Citrus we can get from Florida and Brazil like always. Grapes are grown all over the US, lettuce and such can be grown just about anywhere. Again we'd do fine. Instead of paying farmers to grow corn or nothing at all they could grow those crops we get from CA.
Moffetts
join:2005-05-09
San Mateo, CA

Moffetts

Member

said by itguy05:

said by Moffetts:

said by Pacrat:

They couldn't survive without federal assistance.

Just like the rest of the US couldn't survive without all of our agricultural output.

Like what? Citrus we can get from Florida and Brazil like always. Grapes are grown all over the US, lettuce and such can be grown just about anywhere. Again we'd do fine. Instead of paying farmers to grow corn or nothing at all they could grow those crops we get from CA.

My point (veiled though it was) is that it's just as preposterous to say that California would wilt under the removal of "federal funding" as it is to say that the rest of the country could handle not having easy access to California's ag output. It's not really about what can be grown here that can't be elsewhere, it's about the volume that we can and do put out and the infrastructure that is in place to make that happen. Could the rest of the US survive without CA? Of course it could, given a bit of time to adjust. Could we in CA survive without this purported "federal assistance?" Absolutely. Maybe that would mean fewer unionized six-figure earning prison guards and shovel-leaning Caltrans workers.

BronsCon
join:2003-10-24
Fairfield, CA

BronsCon to ropeguru

Member

to ropeguru
Or we wouldn't export to the other C47... Lower food prices here if we've got more of it. Hawaii and Alaska probably wouldn't mind us sending more their way, either.

Pacrat
Old and Cranky
MVM
join:2001-03-10
Cortland, OH

Pacrat to leibold

MVM

to leibold
But... would California's agriculture be able to flourish without draining water from the Colorado River? As a "stand-alone" entity, the agriculture is pretty-much screwed without water.

BronsCon
join:2003-10-24
Fairfield, CA

BronsCon

Member

Given that the California border runs down the center of the river, where the two meet, we'd still be entitled to the water flowing on our side. What's your point?

Pacrat
Old and Cranky
MVM
join:2001-03-10
Cortland, OH

Pacrat

MVM

But that's not where you draw your water from. Lake Mead is where Cal draws the greatest percentage of water from. And Lake Mead shares no borders with California. There was a special on one of the Discovery Channels some time ago about Hoover Dam. One of the main purposes of the dam was to create Lake Mead to supply southern California with water for its agriculture. No lake, no farming!!!

BronsCon
join:2003-10-24
Fairfield, CA

BronsCon

Member

You asked a specific question, which I answered withing the confines of what you specified. Moving goalposts is not how you win an argument (that I didn't even know we were having) with me, sorry.