 Anonymous_AnonymousPremium join:2004-06-21 127.0.0.1 kudos:2 Reviews:
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| reply to floydb1982
Re: What happend to 2.88MB Floppy Disk's said by floydb1982:For a while there it seemed that they made 2.88MB Floppy Drives yet stopped and went back to 1.44MB Floppy Disks. 2.88MB Floppy's hold twice as much data as a 1.44MB Floppy. Why didn't the 2.88MB Floppy's replace the 1.44MB Floppy's??? My dad had a 2.88MB Floppy Drive and yet he could never find any 2.88MB Floppy Disks but 1.44MB Floppy Disks only. Did they even make any 2.88MB Floppy Disks at all to go along with the 2.88MB Floppy Drive??? I had a 64MB floppy disk it used sony MS sold that sucker for 80$ Sony Memory Stick Floppy Disk Adaptor MSAC-FD2M |
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 pandoraPremium join:2001-06-01 Outland kudos:1 Reviews:
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| reply to DC DSL said by DC DSL:Unfortunately, flash is NOT acceptable as backup for applications requiring permanently unmodifiable "true" copies of data. Nothing is permanent. Media storage devices change over time. Eventually the current DVD readers will be obsolete, and it'll be difficult or nearly impossible to find one. DVD's can be easily shattered, and their life expectancy for data storage is not infinite. A burned DVD is going to have a much shorter life expectancy than a pressed DVD if the pressed DVD was made properly.
On modern PC's virtually all the first generation PC interfaces are gone. Hard drives have evolved over several interfaces and generations.
IIRC there was at one point a choice that users could make by controller type for RLL or MFM encoded storage on a hard drive. RLL gave more storage. My very first PC hard drive with RLL could supply 110 megabytes and cost several hundred dollars. I was told by the salesman it would never be full, that there would never be 110 megabytes of data to store on it.
Today I take pictures that are larger in MB than that drive on an under $300 camera.
As to the OP, 2.88 MB floppy drives never caught on, as traditional 1.44 MB floppy drives were dying when 2.88 was released. It was released too late and cost too much. Microsoft made a push to release software on CD's about the time 2.88 was trying to come out. I had a Microsoft developer account, and recall getting a 1x CD reader (no burner) for the amazingly low price of just over $200. The drive could hold 640 MB of data.
Instead of needing many floppy drives, one CD drive would work.
Today World of Warcraft requires 20 GB to install. We just download it as needed on new systems. Even the traditional DVD dual sided standard is insufficient to hold a game of this size. Blu-ray drives hold up to 50 GB, my guess is within a decade 50 GB will be too small.
Today I couldn't read an MFM or RLL drive from an old PC. Somewhere I have a USB floppy disk reader, it may be 2.88 MB, but it was never used.
Today's SATA will eventually be a dead storage technology and readers will be hard to find. -- "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman" |
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 CheesePremium join:2003-10-26 Naples, FL kudos:1 | reply to Aranarth They aren't out anywhere, anytime soon  |
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 jadinolfI love you FredPremium join:2005-07-09 Ojai, CA kudos:9 Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to Dustyn
Re: What happened to 2.88MB Floppy Disks said by Dustyn:I still have my ZIP drives... and disks. I remember they also suffered from a thing called "The Click Of Death". Thankfully neither of my units were affected. I had the external parallel port version which still works to this day... along with an internal drive. The last operating system that supported these pieces of hardware natively, was Windows XP 64-bit Edition. I retired them after Vista and onwards. I could not get the external version to work in any later OS. I still have two zip drives installed. They are for my Quicken backup. -- Printed on 100% recycled bytes |
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| reply to floydb1982
Re: What happend to 2.88MB Floppy Disk's I believe ZIP at some point contributed to the 2.88 demise. I still have about 2GB worth of 100mm zip disks. And that's the reason why I haven't got rid of my ZIP drive which happened to be in the once awesome Gateway 2000 Pentium II 300mhz, circa 2007.  |
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·Cogeco Cable
| said by AlphaOne:I believe ZIP at some point contributed to the 2.88 demise. No, Bournoulli came before Zip drives and there was another product I used to come across quite often that was external SCSI and I cant recall its name. It was popular on workstations (before Jaz came along).
I have 2.88 MB floppy drive around here and a Toshiba Superdisk / LS-120 drive which was intended as a 120 MB storage drive which read floppies too. They never took off due to Zip's existing popularity. |
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 | said by urbanriot:No, Bournoulli came before Zip drives and there was another product I used to come across quite often that was external SCSI and I cant recall its name. It was popular on workstations (before Jaz came along).
SyQuest? -- Wacky Races 2012! |
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·Cogeco Cable
| Right! And they released the notorious Sparq! If you owned a Sparq and had a few cartridges that worked, you should never, ever buy another cartridge or use someone else's as there were many bad disks that would break drives and the company was terrible for replacing them under warranty. Basically you buy the drive, buy 5 cartridges, cross your fingers and if they all work and the drive continues to work, that's it, use that combination forever. |
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 | I did have (and probably still have) a 44 Mb SyQuest drive and a few cartridges -- they were OK, but optical media and HDs got cheaper, and I never bought any more SyQuest drive. I think their products were reasonably good until they tried to cost reduce them. -- Wacky Races 2012! |
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 DC DSLThere's a reason I'm Command.Premium join:2000-07-30 Washington, DC kudos:2 Reviews:
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| reply to pandora said by pandora:said by DC DSL:Unfortunately, flash is NOT acceptable as backup for applications requiring permanently unmodifiable "true" copies of data. Nothing is permanent. Media storage devices change over time. Eventually the current DVD readers will be obsolete, You clearly did not understand what I was talking about. *Permanently unmodifiable* does not have anything do with longevity of the medium. -- "Dance like the photo isn't being tagged; love like you've never been unfriended; and tweet like nobody is following." |
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 CheesePremium join:2003-10-26 Naples, FL kudos:1 | reply to aurgathor Wasn't that the Orb? |
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 OctaveanPremium,MVM join:2001-03-31 New York, NY kudos:1 | reply to urbanriot said by urbanriot:Right! And they released the notorious Sparq! If you owned a Sparq and had a few cartridges that worked, you should never, ever buy another cartridge or use someone else's as there were many bad disks that would break drives and the company was terrible for replacing them under warranty. Basically you buy the drive, buy 5 cartridges, cross your fingers and if they all work and the drive continues to work, that's it, use that combination forever. I had my internal SyQuest SparQ drive replaced once under warranty which I recall being fairly easy. I only bought about 3 cartridges.
Were you referring to warranty replacements of the SparQ drive or the cartridges?
The cartridges were OK for the most part. I did have one that had some bad sectors but was able to work around it,
Its funny how such things like Floppy drives, Zip drives, Jazz drives and SparQ drives just sort of fall into disuse without note. |
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 Gordo74Premium join:2003-10-28 Monroeville, PA | reply to AlphaOne said by AlphaOne:And that's the reason why I haven't got rid of my ZIP drive which happened to be in the once awesome Gateway 2000 Pentium II 300mhz, circa 2007.  2007? In 2007, I had a 3.2Ghz Athlon XP3200+ with 1GB of RAM and an 80GB HDD... I think you mean more 2002-2004 timeframe. |
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 pandoraPremium join:2001-06-01 Outland kudos:1 Reviews:
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| reply to DC DSL said by DC DSL:You clearly did not understand what I was talking about. *Permanently unmodifiable* does not have anything do with longevity of the medium. I assume if previously readable data becomes unreadable, it has been modified. -- "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman" |
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 DC DSLThere's a reason I'm Command.Premium join:2000-07-30 Washington, DC kudos:2 Reviews:
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| said by pandora:said by DC DSL:You clearly did not understand what I was talking about. *Permanently unmodifiable* does not have anything do with longevity of the medium. I assume if previously readable data becomes unreadable, it has been modified. You're treading dangerously close to troll territory there. -- "Dance like the photo isn't being tagged; love like you've never been unfriended; and tweet like nobody is following." |
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 pandoraPremium join:2001-06-01 Outland kudos:1 Reviews:
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2 edits | said by DC DSL:said by pandora:said by DC DSL:You clearly did not understand what I was talking about. *Permanently unmodifiable* does not have anything do with longevity of the medium. I assume if previously readable data becomes unreadable, it has been modified. You're treading dangerously close to troll territory there. Media degradation modifies content. I don't think there is a dispute about this. When I searched, burned DVD's may have a readable life of between 2-5 years depending on the products used and storage.
I would not assume burned DVD's are secure to hold data for 7 to 10 years, mostly due to degradation of the media. It is true a USB device is easy to modify, but my belief is degradation also modifies data. The intent is to point out at a consumer level, we don't have very good choices.
There is no trolling here. Just pointing out that we can't assume long term viability of just about any PC storage media.
I would point you here »www.pcworld.com/article/124312/article.html - "Unlike pressed original CDs, burned CDs have a relatively short life span of between two to five years, depending on the quality of the CD," Gerecke says. "There are a few things you can do to extend the life of a burned CD, like keeping the disc in a cool, dark space, but not a whole lot more."
The problem is material degradation. Optical discs commonly used for burning, such as CD-R and CD-RW, have a recording surface consisting of a layer of dye that can be modified by heat to store data. The degradation process can result in the data "shifting" on the surface and thus becoming unreadable to the laser beam.
"Many of the cheap burnable CDs available at discount stores have a life span of around two years," Gerecke says. "Some of the better-quality discs offer a longer life span, of a maximum of five years."
Distinguishing high-quality burnable CDs from low-quality discs is difficult, he says, because few vendors use life span as a selling point. As to editing a read only drive ... I assume somewhere someone is able to modify firmware / software to try and modify data on a burnable (writeable via laser on a CD / DVD burner) closed disk marked as read only. Assuming the existing media is write only, I wonder if data destruction of supposed read only DVD's isn't possible. It's never been anything of a concern to me, but to assume someone couldn't write all one's to existing disk would seem to be a bit optimistic. Not that the data itself would be modified, just new data added to the existing could render the media unreadable.
Doing a quick search, I came across this - »www.ehow.com/how_7442372_erase-c···d_r.html DVD-R or DVD-RAM discs work well for storing large files such as movies and backup files. Unlike rewritable DVD discs, DVD-R discs typically are suitable for burning information a single time. However, you may be able to delete items from a DVD-R disc, if necessary. Check the product specifications supplied with the disc before performing these steps to determine if erasing files will render the disc unusable.
Read more: How to Erase a DVD-R Disc | eHow.com »www.ehow.com/how_7271603_erase-d···FKB0RFi4 We may just have different perspectives about the long term viability of any storage media. I started with IT when punched cards and very large tapes were used to store data. A punched card reader would be hard to find, as would the old 360 era tape drive readers. Connecting an old tape drive using the IBM channel bus, could be problematic as well. Each tape drive required a controller. My experience with computers runs over 40 years. I've seen a lot of change.
Edit: Thinking about it, my first experience with data storage was on something called a Friden Flexowriter which used long strips of paper that was punched then later read. This was prior to my use of punch cards in college. Imagine trying to find a reader for that data today? -- "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman" |
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 DC DSLThere's a reason I'm Command.Premium join:2000-07-30 Washington, DC kudos:2 Reviews:
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| Just give up. You went off on a tangent that had NOTHING to do with the point I made. Media degradation is not the point. If you knew anything of the subject I referred to, you would know that there are requirements for ensuring perpetuity of certain types of historical data. Instead, you want to ignore the fact that you contributed nothing relevant and hope that you can bamboozle everyone else into believing it as well. No. You do not get to do that. -- "Dance like the photo isn't being tagged; love like you've never been unfriended; and tweet like nobody is following." |
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·Cogeco Cable
| reply to Octavean said by Octavean:I had my internal SyQuest SparQ drive replaced once under warranty which I recall being fairly easy. I only bought about 3 cartridges.
Were you referring to warranty replacements of the SparQ drive or the cartridges? Both, but mainly the drives. You probably lucked out and had yours replaced before they had so many issues. I had plenty of clients at the time who loved their SparQ drives but were SOL when they broke despite the drives still having warranty. |
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·Comcast
| reply to pandora said by pandora:When I searched, burned DVD's may have a readable life of between 2-5 years depending on the products used and storage. Maybe something new:
said by berserken, here :I've never trusted optical media for long-term storage.
There's something new (to me, at least) that promises long life in an optical disk.
M-DISK Overview The M-DISC utilizes chemically stable and heat-resistant materials that are not used in any other DVD or optical disc! These materials cannot be overwritten, erased, or corrupted by natural processes. Data is stored on the M-DISC by physically altering the data layer and creating permanent voids or holes. This new method of burning data is specifically designed to make your data endure the next 1000 years. |
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 pandoraPremium join:2001-06-01 Outland kudos:1 Reviews:
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| reply to DC DSL No tangent. Just a different point of view. No need to insult anyone. We have no viable long term data storage technology imo for PC's at this time as the hardware the media requires tends to not live longer than 20 years, and the a lot of the media used (particularly burned DVD / CD's ) may not have a shelf life as long as the hardware used to burn it.
Please stop insulting me personally. Thanks.
As to 2.88 mb floppy drives, the expression a day late and a dollar short comes to mind. »idioms.thefreedictionary.com/day···ar+short -- "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman" |
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