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Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to mettachain

Re: Gift ideas for guildies

said by mettachain:

Yes, they're guildies. Yes, you want to grow your guild. But your guild doesn't have to be like the democratic party and try to hand everything to the players because they'll just expect it and what's worse, expect more.

the degree to which this might be an issue varies greatly on many factors including population of the server, number of equally-progressed or like-minded guilds on the server, and the level of scrutiny employed in the recruitment process.
--
Guild leader of Pride and Ego (US:Nathrezim)
Good times with Great people in the Best way to spend $15/mo.

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


mettachain
Goblineer

join:2011-09-27
Azeroth
kudos:1
Not at all. No matter what the population of the server, players are players, and if they can get something for free for doing nothing to earn it then that process opens the gates to a certain kind of player who will keep expecting more.

The gateway drug, if you will, is the gold and bag. Then it will be mount money at level 20. Then something grander. Giving away gold to new players is like handing them crystal meth. Eventually the players you thought you were helping, end up sucking dick behind the Stockades in Storwind so they can get that DK flyer mount for 950g.
--
Reading your post made me want to punch a kitten in the jawbone.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
the degree to which this might be an issue varies...


mettachain
Goblineer

join:2011-09-27
Azeroth
kudos:1
saying it with bold letters doesn't make it more right. essentially you're saying what you usually try to say....anything can happen. those open ended statements might work for you but i'd like to think i, like many, many others, stand to give advice, not items to players. "give a man fish and he'll eat for a day. teach a man to fish and he'll no longer hunger"

of course, America is full of TAKERS not MAKERs nowadays.
--
Reading your post made me want to punch a kitten in the jawbone.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
Is this your thinking metta?


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to mettachain
I was highlighting the fact that my statement wasn't refuting yours... but allowing for multiple factors and a range of experience.

The addage of the fish works, but I find that the man who has tasted great fish is more interested in learning to fish for himself. So, if my fish is wasted and he walks out on his fishing lesson, no biggie... I have plenty of fish.

If your server is highly competitive... handouts are handouts and turnover is rampant... so best to just drive on and have everyone earn everything... by sticking around and contributing. But if turnover isn't an issue, but burnout is... then gifts can serve as incentive to keep at it... that you are not forgotten, even if you couldn't log on in the past week due to RL.

Also in low-pop/casual situations, if I know my raiders don't get a lot of play time, I'll still gear them up, so that when they do get the chance to play, they can make the most of it, rather than grind out some profession on their own... further burning them out.

So you see, James T Kirk... at no time have I said you weren't right... but the degree to which gifting becomes a problem varies. There are risks that need to be planned for and mitigated as much as possible. There is a huge difference between entitlement and charity.

edit: but we tend to shower folks that reach 85 on their mains with stuff to help them through that leveling grind... and again at 90 to get them over the 450 hump.

--
Guild leader of Pride and Ego (US:Nathrezim)
Good times with Great people in the Best way to spend $15/mo.

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


mettachain
Goblineer

join:2011-09-27
Azeroth
kudos:1
reply to DarkLogix
No, DarkLogix. That is NOT my thinking. If you'd like to re-read my initial post in this thread, you might begin to understand my thoughts on this. Big ass comic strips which graffiti up a thread for pointless, although a slightly amusing ruse, don't prove any more than you don't really have an input in the discussion. You lose! Good day Sir!
--
Reading your post made me want to punch a kitten in the jawbone.


mettachain
Goblineer

join:2011-09-27
Azeroth
kudos:1
reply to Immer
said by Immer:

I was highlighting the fact that my statement wasn't refuting yours... but allowing for multiple factors and a range of experience.

Of course. Here's what I think our disconnect is. I'm reading the OP and what I take away from it is, he would like to know some gifts ideas for lower level players, not raiders. That's what I ran with. Both you and DarkLogix obviously are running with players who are level capped, as you pointedly mention "your raiders" in the below quote. "Gifts," in my mind, aren't really something you get when you're level capped and contributing to the guild as a raider. At that level, it is expected that being in a raiding guild, casual or not, is a give and take relationship. You can't raid and expect to have all food/flasks/pots provided to you 100% of the time with no contribution by the individual player. Contributions can then range in tiers as well, from providing mats and enchants/craftables to researching fights thoroughly and then explaining a strategy to the rest of the raid.

said by Immer:

If your server is highly competitive... handouts are handouts and turnover is rampant... so best to just drive on and have everyone earn everything... by sticking around and contributing. But if turnover isn't an issue, but burnout is... then gifts can serve as incentive to keep at it... that you are not forgotten, even if you couldn't log on in the past week due to RL.

What type of "gifts" in your opinion would drive a player to keep at a grind for rep/gear if they don't like what they're doing? Honestly, I might do daily quests if I was the only enchanter in a raid group and the group needed those high level enchants from Shado-pan if the GM paid me 1,000 gold per week. Maybe.

said by Immer:

Also in low-pop/casual situations, if I know my raiders don't get a lot of play time, I'll still gear them up, so that when they do get the chance to play, they can make the most of it, rather than grind out some profession on their own... further burning them out.

Okay, I think I addressed this in my first rebuttal paragraph. I still think level capped toons is NOT what the OP was thinking about.
--
Reading your post made me want to punch a kitten in the jawbone.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast

2 edits
right, and I do get where you are coming from. But offering a bag at lvl 10, some profession mats at lvl 40, a tmog run at 60, a mount run at 80, gear at 85 and gear at 90 isn't really a recipe for Welfare Fraud disaster across the board, either. It might be the one thing that sets his guild apart from other leveling guilds. Will some people take their gifts and run? sure... but you also might develop a long-time guildie through it also.

said by mettachain:

What type of "gifts" in your opinion would drive a player to keep at a grind for rep/gear if they don't like what they're doing? Honestly, I might do daily quests if I was the only enchanter in a raid group and the group needed those high level enchants from Shado-pan if the GM paid me 1,000 gold per week. Maybe.

gifts don't "drive" players to respond... those are not gifts. Those are employment contracts, lol. Just like having a smoking area with nice benches and shade, or providing a stocked breakroom... some employees really respond to those types of "benefits" while others think they are a waste of money that should be coming to them in bonus checks.

edit: by the way, I'm just in this for the discussion of management styles.
--
Guild leader of Pride and Ego (US:Nathrezim)
Good times with Great people in the Best way to spend $15/mo.

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


mettachain
Goblineer

join:2011-09-27
Azeroth
kudos:1
From OP:
said by Carpie:

So I'm trying to keep the guild experience fun for them and have decided that for each 10 levels they achieve, they will get a gift mailed to them from their friendly GM. So far they only "Ding" has been level 10 and I sent them each 10 gold and a 12 slot bag.

I'd like to sit down and create a list of what gifts I'll give at which level achievements (especially since I just recruited someone who will be hitting level 50 here shortly) and am looking for ideas. What types of gifts do you think would be valued and appropriate for each of the tier of 10 levels?

said by Immer:

right, and I do get where you are coming from. But offering a bag at lvl 10, some profession mats at lvl 40, a tmog run at 60, a mount run at 80, gear at 85 and gear at 90 isn't really a recipe for Welfare Fraud disaster across the board, either.

I believe the gold "gift" is what might the beginnings of a "Welfare Fraud disaster." Your suggestions at the different levels you listed seem legit enough and I agree with this. The monetary reward is NOT something either of us would recommend though. I think through thorough discussion here we have come to an agreement. Useful items/achievements are what would garner future involvement from players in the guild. Monetary rewards will have a negative impact, almost always.
--
Reading your post made me want to punch a kitten in the jawbone.

cigtyme
Coonass and Proud of it

join:2010-08-17
Houma, LA
kudos:1
reply to Immer
Locks are made for honest people is the saying right? Gifts can be a good or bad thing. Some will abuse it, and some will be a positive guildy. It is just the way things are. Whats the difference between gifting to a guildy who leaves, or a guildy who gets a piece of gear in a raid and leaves. From level 1 to level 90 it can happen.

If i were joining a guild and recieved gifts from certain task, part of me would expect more.

It is kind of like giving money to one of the bell shakers at Xmas time. You can put in a few bucks. Sometimes the dollars may help someone in need, and sometimes they end up in the bell-ringers pocket.
--
Cigtyme - Alliance - Galakrond - Draneri Arcane Mage
GM and RL of Exalted with Chuck Norris (Before damn Commercial)
"What the hell man, wipe it, we fricken can't heal this damn thing to death"

JoelC707
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL
kudos:5
reply to mettachain
On one hand I agree with you and would have to think long and hard about whether I would do "gifts" on a progression guild. But this guild is supposedly a "family" guild with just him/her and the kids/relatives that play whenever they can. Giving gifts to relatives (especially our own flesh and blood) can be beneficial if not even expected. On the other hand it can teach them to be self-supporting and not always looking for handouts.

Additionally, there are apparently friends of the relatives in the guild but I suspect the invite list would stop there (no friends of friends of friends). Keeping them interested in the game is good and helping them over hurdles is good. It sucks not having a mount but truth be told, if you don't blow your gold on the AH, you should have enough for mount money at 20/40/60/70/etc. Though I have noticed that the "trend" at lower levels from quest givers seems to be the "i'm poor and giving you all I can" thought.

The way you combat the low gold issue would be teaching them about selling the items they don't need. Have them pick gathering professions while leveling. Crafting professions are nice but you'll almost always replace the item in short order anyway (and if you have a friendly guildie that can make it with your mats why not do that instead). This makes it so that they gather their own mats for things they want made or can turn around and sell those mats on the AH for gold. Mtch the gathering profession to the type of armor worn (mining on a plate wearer, mining or skinning on leather/mail, whatever you want on clothies).

For a progression type guild I can see giving sets of gear at major milestones (58/68/80/85/90). Stepping into a new expansion zone with old gear is rough. That's one reason my hunter is still 85. She dinged 85 just before MoP hit and has NO gear at all and it sucks trying to level her even with the 372 pieces. For max level, especially if that toon is going to be with you on guild runs you have to look at the benefit of the guild. Does it benefit the guild more to give this person a starter set of gear to get them into heroics or even LFR or do you let them get the gear entirely on their own? I'd say if you need them to fill a role right away, you might as well help them all you can as it will benefit the guild.

jofos

join:2008-02-14
Irvington, AL
reply to mettachain
I agree with each side of this discussion and I thought the cartoon was funny. But the OP was talking about friends of his kids which is differnt than giving gold for an epic flyer to a guy that joined the guild five minutes ago.
Over the years I have enjoyed helping players with dungeon runs, gold, items, help with quest etc... There have been times when later favors would be returned and there were times when as soon as I logged in I would get a whisper "hey can you run me through..."
I think that players are players some are good and some are bad. If its a guildie that has been there a while I'll help, if its random joe it depends on my mood and how they act.
Last night a guy got some new shoulders and ask what would be the best enchant. After a few answers I offered to switch to my shaman and make him the enchant, someone else replied that they would make it then they logged. A little while later I whispered the guy and ask if he had got the enchant, he said no so I switched toons. I whispered him a couple times and got no reply. So I sold the enchant for 480g.
Guy was in my guild so I was willing to help. I was in a good mood so I was going to help. He never responded so I didn't like the way he acted so I didn't help.
Do what you feel is best in the situation.
As for what gift, if you have a low (or simular) level toon go with them on a dungeon run (don't run them) and help them learn how to play the game. Thats a gift that will give back to your guild.

JoelC707
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL
kudos:5
reply to mettachain
said by mettachain:

Useful items/achievements are what would garner future involvement from players in the guild. Monetary rewards will have a negative impact, almost always.

This is very true. Fresh 80 joined my guild a year or so ago. He leveled from 80 to 85 quickly and became a valuable member of the guild. One of the things he told me kept him around was the atmosphere and how he felt "welcome" and the fact we took him on fun runs with us. We took him with us to UBRS (don't even remember why we went there) and figured "hey, let's get him the jenkins title while we're here". At that point, any of us, even he could have done it on his own but it was the fact we took him with us and got him that title. He still uses it to this day lol.