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PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
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Reviews:
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1 recommendation

reply to shaner

Re: [Serious] Nurse who transferred prank call commits suicide

said by shaner:

Why? For making a prank call? Which is pretty much an industry staple in the morning DJ world?

This is more of a comment than a full disagreement. But this station had been in trouble several times before. And while I agree that the DJ's had no idea what this would lead to, they could not have thought that it would lead to anything good.

Further, DJ's can and should amuse their audiences with intelligent discussions, not prank calls.

Here in metro NYC/NJ we have several prominent talk radio stations. I listen to a few of them. And I can't recall a prank call. No sane person wants the FCC or CRTC to come down on them.

said by shaner:

And there wouldn't be calls for their heads if this woman had not killed herself.

Well, actually there [were] even before she killed herself. Impersonating the Queen would be badly viewed even in the US, it's that much worse in a country where she [is] the Queen. And this was a call to a HOSPITAL about a pregnant woman who was ill !!

said by shaner:

Hey, even the venerable Peter Funt of Candid Camera fame sides with the DJ's.

Well, he and his dad made a fortune by being jerks. I'm not surprised.

You wouldn't expect the mob to criticize gambling, bootlegging, or loansharking, would you?

said by shaner:

If these DJ's are responsible for this poor woman's death, then the sanctimonious crowd needs to step back and think about the times in their lives they may have even snickered at another person's misfortune. Like watching America's Funniest Home Videos for example.

I absolutely hate that show. It is a symbol of our cultural decadence.

My wife watches it, which is the only reason I see it sometimes. And one of the recent videos was a guy making a crank call---while driving his car, no less---to a butcher store. Yes, they GLORIFIED an adult making a crank call, which used to be considered anti-social behavior.

said by shaner:

Frankly, the more I think about it, the very hospital this woman worked for is more culpable in her death than the DJ's are. They had direct involvement with her immediately following the incident and chose to leave her alone instead of supervising her for possible suicidal tendencies.

That's a bit of blaming the victim: the hospital's administration and staff were victimized too. And this woman apparently gave no evidence of a problem. Should they have forced her onto antidepressants?

-----------------------------

I'm not a prude. I like comedy from the Marx Brothers to George Carlin to SNL, from Benny Hill to Monty Python.

But this wasn't funny, just downright malicious. And stupid, considering the other violations done by this station....

But while I don't think those Australians could envision what would come, and while they may be responsible only for a violation of broadcast law (not for a death), the two of them need to STFU and disappear for a couple of years.


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
reply to shaner
said by shaner:

This was not a prank gone wrong. This was the management of a mental health issue gone wrong. Frankly, the more I think about it, the very hospital this woman worked for is more culpable in her death than the DJ's are. They had direct involvement with her immediately following the incident and chose to leave her alone instead of supervising her for possible suicidal tendencies. Clearly, they felt the prank was harmless as well, and they are the health professionals.

You're making a lot of assumptions about this woman's mental health, and even more assumptions about what the hospital did or didn't do.

I stand by my earlier statement, which is that this was a transgression of ethics by the two dipshits that made this call. It's not like other such pranks, like the amusing one where a Quebec DJ called Sarah Palin and pretended to be Nicolas Sarkozy. Why? Because whether or not Palin would have liked to go hunting with him from a helicopter does not infringe on legalities like medical confidentiality and basic personal privacy. There were some major ethical issues involved here and if we're going to make assumptions, it would seem more realistic to assume that the gravity of these issues was the major contributor to the nurse's distress over this.

said by PX Eliezer70:

But this wasn't funny, just downright malicious. And stupid, considering the other violations done by this station....

But while I don't think those Australians could envision what would come, and while they may be responsible only for a violation of broadcast law (not for a death), the two of them need to STFU and disappear for a couple of years.

Agreed.

--
"The promoters of the global economy see nothing odd or difficult about unlimited economic growth or unlimited consumption in a limited world."
Wendell Berry


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to PX Eliezer70
said by PX Eliezer70:

Further, DJ's can and should amuse their audiences with intelligent discussions, not prank calls.

I agree, but most people apparently are much more amused by low life's like Howard Stern & Don Imus. If DJs stuck to intelligent discussion they would lose 2/3rds of their audience.
--
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver
reply to shaner
said by shaner:

said by Warez_Zealot:

I hope they have their asses fired and get black listed from ever working in the industry again.

Why? For making a prank call? Which is pretty much an industry staple in the morning DJ world?

Look, there is absolutely no way these two morons could have predicted this particular outcome. No possible way. Now, I call them morons because, frankly, the original joke simply wasn't funny. But, the joke really had no malicious intent whatsoever, and once again, they never, ever could have envisioned this outcome. And there wouldn't be calls for their heads if this woman had not killed herself.

Hey, even the venerable Peter Funt of Candid Camera fame sides with the DJ's.
»www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/opini···ml?_r=1&

This is a good viewpoint as well. Even Prince Charles initially laughed off the prank and kind of validated it as somewhat amusing.

»www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-a···29q.html

Look, I think her suicide is the tragedy, not the prank call. I want there to be an honest discussion about mental health issues, and the underlying reasons for suicide and what can be done to prevent these kind of tragedies before they even happen. That is the discussion we should be having, not one about whether these DJ's are criminally responsible for the choice someone else made. Period.

If these DJ's are responsible for this poor woman's death, then the sanctimonious crowd needs to step back and think about the times in their lives they may have even snickered at another person's misfortune. Like watching America's Funniest Home Videos for example.

This was not a prank gone wrong. This was the management of a mental health issue gone wrong. Frankly, the more I think about it, the very hospital this woman worked for is more culpable in her death than the DJ's are. They had direct involvement with her immediately following the incident and chose to leave her alone instead of supervising her for possible suicidal tendencies. Clearly, they felt the prank was harmless as well, and they are the health professionals.

They should definitely be made an example of. Might make other "DJ's" think twice before they do something so stupid. Making the radio station civilly responsible would also be a good option for the family. Sue them and get a bit chunk of change. They should even go after the DJ's directly as well. Obviously these people don't think they did anything wrong because this line of work is their bread and butter.
--
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it."-Malcolm X



DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to donoreo
quote:
The Australian DJs who posed as the Queen in a prank call to the hospital where Kate, the Duchess of Cambridge, was being treated have said they are "gutted and heartbroken" after the nurse who took the call was found dead.
»www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/12···f=canada

"Gutted and heartbroken"? She's dead.

quote:
"It was meant to be a silly little prank that so many people have done before. The accents were terrible, it was designed to be stupid. There were corgis barking in the background, it was meant to be a joke.

"We couldn't foresee what would happen."

"It wasn't about trying to get a scoop. We assumed we would be hung up on and that would be that. We were meant to be told off and that was the gag, the joke was on us."
And what happens when you make assumptions?

But a clue as to what may have caused this. Cultural factors may have been strongly in play.

quote:
Ms Saldanha's family believe she died because of overwhelming "shame", it was reported.

She was a "proper and righteous person" who would have been "devastated" about what happened, her brother Naveen told the Daily Mail.

He said: "She would have felt much shame about the incident."

--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

1 recommendation

I saw them and their crocodile tears on TV this morning.


shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

But a clue as to what may have caused this. Cultural factors may have been strongly in play.

quote:
Ms Saldanha's family believe she died because of overwhelming "shame", it was reported.

She was a "proper and righteous person" who would have been "devastated" about what happened, her brother Naveen told the Daily Mail.

He said: "She would have felt much shame about the incident."

Shame is so toxic to a person's well being. In fact, it may be the most destructive emotion out there. A culture of shame doesn't do anybody any good ever.
--
I'm a man, but I can change. If I have to. I guess.

»shaner38.blogspot.com/


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
i think shaner has a good point though...i agree the suicide is a tragedy, but i don't think the DJs should be crucified for it...it was a nothing prank call.

good thing you guys haven't seen these pranks yet:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N5OhNplEd4


»youtube.com/watch?v=MxbZgB5UNO8

--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
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join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
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reply to DKS
So do you blame the DJs for her death? The Star thinks not.
quote:
Blame, however, is a proportional thing, and it’s important to get the proportions right. Two morning DJs were doing their job in a way that has become not only accepted but expected; has anyone listened to morning radio in Toronto? It’s not long since Howard Stern was the boor-du-jour in this city. Greig and Christian crowded the line of good taste, and they crossed the line of confidentiality with respect to the Duchess of Cambridge’s condition. For those infractions, guilty as charged.

But did they cause the death of Jacintha Saldanha? Absolutely not.

We have no idea of all the factors — familial, cultural, social, personal, professional — that led to Saldanha’s death. Suicides are complicated, and there’s usually more than enough blame to go around. Greig and Christian will wear their share of guilt, but pinning the death solely, or even primarily, on two people who couldn’t possibly have foreseen this outcome is not just simplistic — it’s vindictive.

If either of them were next to commit suicide, who would we blame then?
»www.thestar.com/living/article/1···ndictive
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver

3 edits
I disagree. These guys should be thrown to the wolves. Just watched the dj interviews and it was full of crocodile tears saying they feel bad that they played a "part"(!?) They can't even bring themselves to admit what they did.

Now they are lying and saying that they tried to call the hospital ahead of time to let them in on the prank call. Anyhow looks like there will be an investigation and these guys are likely done ever working in the industry again.. Luckily Australia has some lax civil suit laws, so hopefully they can hit these guys in the pockets too. This is just like online bullying but more shameful because it's at someone's expense for people's entertainment.

Imo any articles giving the dj's a pass is just trying to help the industry sweep this under the rug.
--
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it."-Malcolm X



DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur:

So do you blame the DJs for her death? The Star thinks not.

Sorry, that's not "The Star". That's the opinion of ONE writer, a columnist, a former colleague of mine. And his position is much more finely parsed than you say. He points out that the DJ's are not solely to blame for the nurses death. I agree. He does agree that they have some culpability. How much is a matter of discussion.

I happen to believe they share more responsibility than the columnist suggests. They and their bosses made a serious error in judgement. The moment they received confidential medical information they should have shut the whole thing down. That it was not, shows the complete ethical depravity of the broadcaster.

More appropriate was, I feel, another Star columnist, Rosie DiManno's comment last week:

quote:
In truth, it was never remotely funny, that moronic prank pulled by a couple of jester Australian radio disc jockeys on a London hospital where the Duchess of Cambridge was being treated for acute morning sickness.

The real sickness here is what passes for humour these days: The snark, the mean poke, the gotcha gouge, the juvenile punking. We are, it seems, endlessly captivated by the embarrassment inflicted on others, the shamier the better.

--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to donoreo
Now, what would have happened sans the suicide?

The two nurses would have been eviscerated by hospital administration for complicity in a privacy breach.



FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to donoreo
Aussie radio station giving $524,000(US) to nurses family. Sounds like a little bit of guilt and a lot of PR to me.
»www.cnn.com/2012/12/11/world/asi···pt=hp_c2


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by FFH5:

Aussie radio station giving $524,000(US) to nurses family. Sounds like a little bit of guilt and a lot of PR to me.
»www.cnn.com/2012/12/11/world/asi···pt=hp_c2

Conditional on the family not launching a lawsuit?
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by DKS:

Conditional on the family not launching a lawsuit?

In other words, an insurance settlement? So much for guilt and PR.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1

1 edit
said by Gone:

said by DKS:

Conditional on the family not launching a lawsuit?

In other words, an insurance settlement? So much for guilt and PR.

That's an assumption (or a question) from DKS.

Edit: While it's certainly possible that is actually the case, there's nothing to confirm such a suspicion right now.


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
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N of 49th
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reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by DKS:

Conditional on the family not launching a lawsuit?

In other words, an insurance settlement? So much for guilt and PR.

Or "hush money".
--
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All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
Join Team Helix

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver
reply to bt
said by bt:

said by Gone:

said by DKS:

Conditional on the family not launching a lawsuit?

In other words, an insurance settlement? So much for guilt and PR.

That's an assumption (or a question) from DKS.

Edit: While it's certainly possible that is actually the case, there's nothing to confirm such a suspicion right now.

Of course that's the case. Hopefully the family gets some good legal counsel and sues for at least 10x that amount.
--
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it."-Malcolm X



Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
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reply to DKS
said by DKS:

said by FFH5:

Aussie radio station giving $524,000(US) to nurses family. Sounds like a little bit of guilt and a lot of PR to me.
»www.cnn.com/2012/12/11/world/asi···pt=hp_c2

Conditional on the family not launching a lawsuit?

Maybe, but there's a lot more to suggest that it's self-serving. They've had a moratorium on commercials for a few days, and are now saying, come on back, advertisers, and the proceeds will go to the family. Attract advertisers back and rehabilitate their image all at the same time!

The radio station is doing what a business does -- they are being a business.

My only problem with your surprisingly intemperate assessment of the DJ's guilt on this -- and I've agreed throughout this discussion that they're a couple of jerks -- is that justice must be tempered and reasonable and consider the circumstances. The court of public opinion here is to throw them under the bus. The evidence suggests that they never intended for the prank to actually work (would you really have someone pretending to bark like a dog in the background and the Queen saying something about feeding her Corgis if they seriously wanted to get through and get information from the hospital?). And IMHO, the evidence also suggests that the DJ's are genuinely shocked and remorseful, which is not necessarily inconsistent with the fact that they probably are also a couple of jerks, and their employer apparently even worse. Life is rarely simple, and simple retribution is not always the best remedy.
--
"The promoters of the global economy see nothing odd or difficult about unlimited economic growth or unlimited consumption in a limited world."
Wendell Berry

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to Warez_Zealot
said by Warez_Zealot:

Of course that's the case. Hopefully the family gets some good legal counsel and sues for at least 10x that amount.

Again, there's absolutely nothing to confirm that. It is, at the moment, pure conjecture. Not fact.

And what signs we do have point to it being a PR move (rather than a legal CYA), like Dark Lobe and Wolfie have mentioned.


shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB
reply to Wolfie00
I have no doubt they feel remorseful and sad for the tragic turn of events that they started. I'm sure they genuinely feel awful about it. They may be jerks, but they are still human.


urbanriot
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Canada
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said by shaner:

I have no doubt they feel remorseful and sad for the tragic turn of events that they started. I'm sure they genuinely feel awful about it. They may be jerks, but they are still human.

I'll reserve judgement until I see how much this experience has taken the wind out of their sales.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Wolfie00
said by Wolfie00:

The evidence suggests that they never intended for the prank to actually work (would you really have someone pretending to bark like a dog in the background and the Queen saying something about feeding her Corgis if they seriously wanted to get through and get information from the hospital?).

And they never thought about alternate scenarios? More importantly, the tape was reviewed by the lawyers prior to airing. Surely if anyone had doubts of the appropriateness of the tape they would have killed it. The station also attempted (they say) to contact the hospital on five occasions. They were unsuccessful. Yet the tape aired. A move in bad taste compounded by extremely poor, and possibly criminal bad judgement.

And IMHO, the evidence also suggests that the DJ's are genuinely shocked and remorseful, which is not necessarily inconsistent with the fact that they probably are also a couple of jerks, and their employer apparently even worse. Life is rarely simple, and simple retribution is not always the best remedy.

Did I suggest any penalty? Not I.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to urbanriot
there seems to be mixed reactions (sides) from various people:

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201···-dj.html

PX Eliezer70
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Hutt River
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1 edit
reply to donoreo
We can honestly debate about the degree of culpability of the radio DJ's.

But I was absolutely shocked to see this asshole who is blaming Kate Middleton.

As an American, I am probably not familiar enough with the mindset of Commonwealth countries in general and the UK in particular. But exactly what species of asshole is this guy Morrissey?

I hope some female in his family kicks him in the balls.


News story excerpts:

British rocker Morrissey did not mince words....

He explicitly blamed Kate Middleton and the royal family for last week's suspected suicide....

Morrissey says the DJs aren't to blame; Middleton and the rest of the royals are....

"There's (been) no blame placed on Kate Middleton, who was in that hospital, as far as I can see, for absolutely no reason. She feels no shame about the death of this woman," the singer told 3News....

He even goes so far as to question Middleton's "health condition."

Full story:
»www.usatoday.com/story/life/peop···1764055/

Geez, even people who may not like the monarchy and/or want it abolished, would not wish ill on a young pregnant woman who was just doing what her doctors told her to do.

----------------------------------------

Morrissey, feh!

Reminds me of George Orwell's musing that he wished there was some kind of Moral Sanitary Authority that could rid the world of Stalin.


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
British "rocker", eh? Sounds like one of those rockers who's done a few too many drugs.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
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Reviews:
·callwithus
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Earlier this year Morrissey, who lives in Los Angeles, slammed the ‘blustering jingoism’ of London (Olympics) 2012 and even compared the support of athletes to Nazi Germany in the late 1930s.

Daily Mail.

I am embarrassed that this asshole now lives in Los Angeles.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
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reply to PX Eliezer70
said by PX Eliezer70:

Morrissey, feh!

Reminds me of George Orwell's musing that he wished there was some kind of Moral Sanitary Authority that could rid the world of Stalin.

He reminds me of the scum gang leader Alex DeLarge in the Clockwork Orange movie:

»www.imdb.com/title/tt0066921/
--
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.

Merry Christmas »goo.gl/Y2AEF

peterboro
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Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to donoreo
I knew it. The nurse left details of her criticisms of staff at the hospital at which she worked. When she was sent home I'm sure there were implicit threats to her by the administration at the hospital and she knew her job was on the line. Of course the hospital is falling all over itself to say they were supportive all the while jamming a knife in her back. It seems the more you pay and empower upper management at large institutions such as hospitals the bigger scum bags they become to front line health care workers.

»news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/14···-report/

capdjq
Premium
join:2000-11-01
Vancouver
I really am a loss to know why she was the "persecuted" person. She, from what I have read, "merely" took the call, acting as a receptionist, and passed it on to the floor nurse who then proceeded to be "duped".
While, I am sorry she committed suicide, from my experience with depression with a friend, if she had already a problem this could have driven her "over the edge".
The British and Royal watchers take the Queen and her family very seriously and that is their prerogative, but I, whilst I don't wish them any harm, regard them as an accident of birth.
--
one cigarette costs 2 minutes of your life.
one bottle of beer costs 4 minutes of your life.
one working day costs 8 hours of your life.