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Korpers

join:2012-12-07

[WIN7] Computer Always Freezing - Sometimes crashes.

Hi,

I was just wondering if somebody could have a quick look at my minidump file and shed some light on why my computer is constantly freezing for 10 seconds at a time on everything I do, and occasionally bluescreening when i just nip into the kitchen to get a coffee. Its my main work computer and its really affecting my ability to get on with stuff.

Thanks very much for any advice.


La Luna
RIP Lisa
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
kudos:3

I can't analyze the mini dump (someone will do it), but is there anything in event viewer around the time of the freezes/crashes that might give you a clue?


aguen
Premium
join:2003-07-16
Grants Pass, OR
kudos:2
reply to Korpers

It appears that your disk controller or the driver is having issues. This could explain the "freezing" and certainly caused the BSOD.

crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\113012-20092-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ataport.sys (ataport+0x1E93C) 
Bugcheck code: 0x7A (0xFFFFF6FC40006DF8, 0xFFFFFFFFC0000185, 0xA21B8860, 0xFFFFF88000DBF93C)
Error: KERNEL_DATA_INPAGE_ERROR
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\ataport.sys
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: ATAPI Driver Extension
Bug check description: This bug check indicates that the requested page of kernel data from the paging file could not be read into memory. 
The crash took place in a standard Microsoft module. Your system configuration may be incorrect. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver on your system that cannot be identified at this time. 
 


Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2

I would guess that would more likely point to a bad hard disk since controller failures are rare as are bad drivers for them.


aguen
Premium
join:2003-07-16
Grants Pass, OR
kudos:2
reply to Korpers

I just noticed that VDRVROOT.SYS is also mentioned. Are you running MS virtual disk at the time of these issues?


aguen
Premium
join:2003-07-16
Grants Pass, OR
kudos:2
reply to Kramer

said by Kramer:

I would guess that would more likely point to a bad hard disk since controller failures are rare as are bad drivers for them.

While I would agree with this, at this point we don't know whether or not he is using a 3rd. party controller in some manner.

Korpers

join:2012-12-07
reply to Korpers

Thanks for all of your comments and help here. I'm very grateful.

aguen: Forgive my ignorance, but what is a disk controller? And can I simply change the driver without risking anything? And I don't know what a MS virtual disk is, so I doubt I'm running one. Also, what is a 3rd party controller.

kramer: Do you mean that the HDD might be bad? It IS quite old - can I somehow run a check on it? I actually have two HDD's in my box, one for the OS and all my applications, then another one for all my docs and stuff.

Thanks again for looking into this.


Korpers

join:2012-12-07
reply to Korpers

I have three other minidumps that all happened quite close to each other, shall I upload these too? Maybe they are all the same / different?


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3
reply to Korpers

Two basic tests.

Memory test like memtest, let it run at least twice.

A full diagnostic off the hdd looking for, and repairing errors.

Things can get corrupted on the disk including it's drivers, and in the memory which the pagefile is used as memory.

In one case a hdd cable had become damaged, and that was the entire problem.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent out necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.


aguen
Premium
join:2003-07-16
Grants Pass, OR
kudos:2
reply to Korpers

At the time of the freezes or crashes, were you accessing any of the files on on the 2nd. HDD?

The hard disk controller is the hardware interface that your HDD's are physically plugged into. It can be embedded on the mother board or a separate card that is plugged into one of the slots on the mother board and in this case your HDD's are plugged into it. Regardless of the type, the controller manages the requests into and out of the HDD's along with any actual data to be provided based on the type of request, such as during the initial startup of a PC, starting an application and any read/write commands for a given data file.



Cartel
Premium
join:2006-09-13
Chilliwack, BC
kudos:2
reply to Korpers

please run this and post the info

»crystalmark.info/download/index-···DiskInfo

use the Portable Edition (zip)



Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
reply to Korpers

said by Korpers:

kramer: Do you mean that the HDD might be bad? It IS quite old - can I somehow run a check on it? I actually have two HDD's in my box, one for the OS and all my applications, then another one for all my docs and stuff.

Thanks again for looking into this.

Hard disks on average have about a 10% failure rate in any given year. After 5 years, the odds are working against you. Everything you have said here would give me enough information if I were a a gambler, to say your oldest drive is the problem. Obviously I could be wrong and there is certainly not anywhere enough information to be even close to sure, but the odds favor my guess. To answer your question, for testing. Generally the easiest way is to use the manufacturer's software to scan the disk and test it. If it is a WD disk, then use the WD software. If it is a Seagate disk, use the Seagate software, etc. Here's a list of most the major packages. »pcsupport.about.com/od/toolsofth···diag.htm You might get more help with this in the hardware forum. There are some pretty sharp people over there who might help you look at the hard disks history that is maintained within the drives themselves.

To be more on-topic for this forum, there are some Microsoft utilities like CHKDSK that can give you a decent idea of a disk's health, but CHKDSK can also damage data when there is a problem, so given your issues I would go with something else.

This is important. You are experiencing problems which may be related to the proper functioning of your hard drive(s). It would be foolish to do anything other then backup your data before you do anything else.


norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback

said by Kramer:

This is important. You are experiencing problems which may be related to the proper functioning of your hard drive(s). It would be foolish to do anything other then backup your data before you do anything else.

Second that point.

Too many people think your computer will store everything. You mention 3 x HDD's so I gather you understand the basics of storing documents and personal info elsewhere.

Back up all personal data, even if buying a new external hard drive.
If you have important data to you, errors such as this can be catastrophic for your personal data to the point you can loose it all.

--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
reply to Cartel

said by Cartel:

please run this and post the info

»crystalmark.info/download/index-···DiskInfo

use the Portable Edition (zip)

Please use CrystalDiskInfo if you use this tool.

The CrystalDiskMark there does bench testing, and if a failing hard drive is the cause for your problems it could be dangerous for your needs right now.

Others here prefer HD Tune Pro (trial version) off this link -
»www.hdtune.com/
Please use the tool and attach the full info off the +health tab for each and every hard drive.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke


Korpers

join:2012-12-07
reply to Korpers

Click for full size
Click for full size
First off, a big thanks to all helping me out here. I didnt expect such a good response - restores a bit of faith in humanity.

Right, I've backed all my stuff up, and any fatalities now will just mean a loss of time rather than my precious precious data.

My 2 hard drives are a 120GB (WIN7 OS) and a 2TB (My Documents and back-ups etc).

The 120GB drive is about 4 or 5 years old now, whereas the 2TB was bought just a few months ago.

I have attached two screenshots for the reports from HD Tune Pro 5.00. The health status on the older drive is 'warning' and there are two yellow lines there too. I'm no clever scientist, but it looks like there might be problem with the drive.

I think my best solution here is to clear all the stuff of my 2TB onto my external HDD - Reformat it and put my OS on it and then chuck the 120GB in the bin?


norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback


From what I understand from the good people here that do explain what these figures mean, you have this concern.

There is sectors of the hard drive to be decided on whether they are good or bad and that is yet to happen.
The data may or may not be recoverable. There has been sectors that has been reallocated that were bad.
I believe that count of 232 in the second line that's yellow is a big concern and the data there is possibly lost altogether suggesting you will get more errors than you have now.

Possibly koitsu See Profile may drop past and give you the defined answers on exactly what is going on for piece of mind but you seem to understand enough to be on the path of sorting it out to move on.

I can see nothing initially wrong with the 2TB drive either, so it will keep you running.

--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke


Korpers

join:2012-12-07

Hi Norwegian, thanks for that, yea I just saw yellow and that was it for me. I'm not concerned about any type of data recovery as its just my OS and programmes on that drive.

I think I'm just going to take it out, hit it with a big hammer, place it in pieces in the metal recycling bin.



Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
reply to Korpers

said by Korpers:

I think my best solution here is to clear all the stuff of my 2TB onto my external HDD - Reformat it and put my OS on it and then chuck the 120GB in the bin?

That seems like a lot of work for nothing. If your 120GB is dying, simply move your data to the 2TB, remove the 120 and call it a day. It should take all of 30-60 minutes to copy the data while you eat popcorn and boringly watch. If the problems disappear, you can buy another data drive or leave well enough alone and not spend a dime. How much of that 2TB could you possibly be using? Keep up the backups! I highly recommend cloud backup solutions like Carbonite, Mozy, etc. Carbonite is 60 bucks a year for unlimited storage. I have well over 200GB on their servers. Cloud backups are great but they should be accompanied with a local backup to additional devices as well.

Korpers

join:2012-12-07
reply to Korpers

That would be perfect Kramer. But how can i do that? Can i just copy the OS and all programs over easily?

I always thought you had to re-install windows from a disk on onto a fresh partition?



Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2

I might have misunderstood you. I thought the OS was on the 2TB drive? If not, then it does get complicated and the easiest thing is to replace the 120 and image the old one (if possible) and then restore the image.

If you don't want to replace it, you would have to backup the 2TB, image the 120, restore the image to the 2TB (which would erase it) and then copy back the data. The question is whether or not you have anything that is going to freak out when you lose what I presume to be your D: drive? If programs and Os are only on the C: drive or the 120GB, then this should be pretty easy. If you installed programs to the D: drive, then you are screwed for a one drive setup unless you partition and put everything back where it was. The big disadvantage of multiple drive setups is exactly this. Of course if you are willing to reload everything from your OS to your programs, you can do anything you want. I just don't know how complex your setup is. Typically reloading Windows and your programs is the last thing anyone wants to do because it takes such a long time.

What version of WIN7 is this, Pro or Home? Where are your programs installed? Are they all on the 120, mixed, or on the 2TB? The 120 is C: and the 2TB is D: right?


Korpers

join:2012-12-07
reply to Korpers

It's Windows 7 Ultimate and everything is installed on the C: drive. D: drive (I actually use Z: for work purposes) is just storage really.

I'm a bit dubious about imaging the 120Gb, as if there are any bad sectors, wont it image the errors? Or doesnt it work like that?

I still have 5 hours left on the back up (220gb to go) so I have time to think about it.



Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2

I don't think it will image the bad sectors, but it will image bad data lying under them. Absent any other guidance to the contrary, if it were me

For a 2 drive setup:

1)Remove the 2TB for safe keeping 2) I would run CHKDSK /F /R on the C: drive. That may take a while to complete. If all goes well that will re-locate any data it finds on marginal sectors and mark the sectors as bad, so I assume the image would then ignore that. You should be notified of any areas it can't recover the files from and what files are involved. Then use Windows Backup to do an image. Create a recovery CD from the backup menu. Then just replace the drive, boot off the recovery CD and restore the image. It is my recollection that Windows backup will restore the data so that the partition that existed is restored in its original size. So if for instance you put in a 1TB HD, you are going to only use 120GB of it. No problem, because disk management should allow you to expand that drive to full capacity when you are done.

For a 1 drive setup:
Backup your data drive (2TB) two times in two different places. I would simply copy the files, not use a backup program for at least one of the backups.

Do the CHKDSK above and then image the 120. Make the recovery CD. Remove the 120. Boot off the recovery CD and restore the backup to the 2TB. This will erase everything on the 2TB. Then expand the 2TB or create a 2nd partition for the data. My advice is 120GB is too small. I would allow at least 250GB for the program/OS partition. Copy your data back.

In either case, if the image will not complete, your machine locks or all hell breaks lose on the CHKDSK, you are going to have to reinstall. If you reinstall, I don't think you will have to erase the 2TB just to install the OS on it. Back it up just in case though. We have a FAQ here on how to do a clean install with upgrade media.



norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback

It would not hurt to look at keeping an image after running chkdsk on it for back up sake. Then run the Sea tools utility on the hard drive to see what it says, and if it comes back good, zero the the drive as well to allow the sectors to be correctly allocated good/bad. The concern on the image for reloading though would be wanting to load the image on top of bad sectors which have been designated not usable anymore. However if the OP is happy to just start again then it might be the safest long term goal.

I prefer to start again myself, but I can understand where a lot of years work and a system you are used to might be worth spending the extra time to try and keep rather than starting fresh. I guess it's a personal thing.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2

Once a drive causes me any difficulty I get rid of it. It just isn't worth the risk to me. My theory is good hard drives don't go bad on you Not sure what you are saying about loading on top of bad sectors as I wasn't expecting the OP to re-use the drive. I'm just concerned about file corruption/loss that gets copied to a new drive. Fact is, the system is booting up without error (I presume) and that is a great sign. Not sure he will be able to get a successful image, but it couldn't hurt to try. Reloading is a personal thing, I agree. Some people use 4 applications and others use 400. The degree of difficulty is hard to gauge without seeing the system. I couldn't agree more about re-loading being the safest course.



norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback

said by Kramer:

Once a drive causes me any difficulty I get rid of it. It just isn't worth the risk to me. My theory is good hard drives don't go bad on you Not sure what you are saying about loading on top of bad sectors as I wasn't expecting the OP to re-use the drive.

Ah, neither was I - I mis-read you - it was early due to a cat running full circles of the house when it should have been sleeping. The hard drive is a paper weight basically.

said by Kramer:

I'm just concerned about file corruption/loss that gets copied to a new drive..../
/.....Some people use 4 applications and others use 400. The degree of difficulty is hard to gauge without seeing the system. I couldn't agree more about re-loading being the safest course.

I forget because I prefer to start fresh, many others use images, and this present system if imaged will more than likely carry across errors. 232 sectors is a lot to be reallocating, and the data contained in those sectors......but the back up image is worth keeping just in case if the user has 400 applications and there is a lost key to software that is important - it can be loaded onto a small drive and only plugged in when required for that job. I can imagine the emails to software vendors if a few hundred applications needed keys sourced for a new installation.

Incremental image back ups come in handy.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2

CHKDSK will possibly de-allocate the bad sectors. As long as they are cleared out, his odds aren't magnificent, but they are pretty fair no important system or program files are effected. That drive is going to have a lot of useless (for the next drive) garbage on it. The page file could be darned close to 10 percent of the drive or even more. There could be a ton of temporary files, cookies, restore points, hibernation file, etc. Probably close to half that drive is nothing but crap. Odds are good those bad sectors are relatively close to one another too. It's probably a 50/50 crap shoot by the time you get done. Maybe one piece of software malfunctions. No big deal. The big question is whether or not an image is even possible at this point. I think that's the longest odds he faces.


Korpers

join:2012-12-07
reply to Korpers

Hi Guys - Ok, I've sorted it.

I backed up my 2TB drive (took 7 hours) and then set about running a check disk on my OS 120GB drive, to then do a disk image and put it on the 2TB drive after formatting it.

Problem was the CHKDSK stopped on stage 4. It simply froze, and that was the last straw for me. I removed the drive, wrote in big black sharpie 'BAD DRIVE' and popped it in a draw to never be used again. I'll probably take it apart at some point and get hold of the juicy magnets inside (thanks Kramer) but now I am running my OS on the 2TB drive.....and everything is peachy again.

I will also probably invest in some cloud storage for the future too - it seems like a good idea to me.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for all your help and advice - it was invaluable.

I guess this thread can now be closed.

Fzzzzzzt.....*pop*



Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2

Sorry to hear the CHKDSK was not successful. I've seen it take days in some cases. I've learned to not assume it has frozen unless it sticks at the same point for a number of hours. At least your new OS install will give you the confidence that everything is right.

Enjoy the magnets, but don't get your finger between one of them and a piece of metal. It can really hurt! One of the magnets by the way is usually on a bracket that makes it bad for refrigerators. I just bend the bracket back with a vise grip while the whole thing is in a vise. The other magnet is ready to go usually.

Expand your moderator at work