 Link LoggerPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3 | reply to FF4m3
Re: 'Black Box' Data Recorders Required In All New Cars When I see phrases like 'there's a snitch along for the ride' or 'have this technology tattle on you', sounds like this technology is justified as some people are simply trying to 'get away with something they know is wrong'.
'Data collected by the recorders is increasingly showing up in lawsuits, criminal cases and high-profile accidents', well if it explains what happened then why shouldn't it? This data is based on physics, so in terms of what happened its pretty clear, now as to why it happened, well enter the lawyers.
I find statements like this to border on hypocritical 'Right now we're in an environment where there are no rules, there are no limits, there are no consequences and there is no transparency', in that if there was something questionable about your driving and the black box could reveal that, then shouldn't there be a consequence or is that what people are trying to avoid?
Heck I'd like to see monitoring on the driver, tell me what level of attention they were paying to driving so when they do cause a crash, it becomes real clear who's fault it is so they can receive the full consequences due to them.
Blake
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Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool |
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 SparkChaserPremium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to Blackbird
said by Blackbird:The auto companies are giddy with anticipation as they can add their price markup to yet another required, costly, automotive "safety" appliance - Around 90 percent of all automakers are already ahead of the curve though and include a black box already. Some of these manufacturers include General Motors, Ford, Toyota, and Mazda.
»blogs.automotive.com/report-blac···133.html
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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley
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 sivranOpera convertPremium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
kudos:1 | reply to Link Logger
Wouldn't mind: a way to infallibly prove that the idiot driver was texting when he caused the crash.
Do mind: "Oh hey your blackbox says you were doing 70 and the speed limit's 60. Have a ticket!" Meanwhile everybody else is doing 70 as well, and it was the dipshit that didn't look before merging that actually caused the crash.
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Think Outside the Fox. |
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Link LoggerPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3 | said by sivran:Wouldn't mind: a way to infallibly prove that the idiot driver was texting when he caused the crash.
Do mind: "Oh hey your blackbox says you were doing 70 and the speed limit's 60. Have a ticket!" Meanwhile everybody else is doing 70 as well, and it was the dipshit that didn't look before merging that actually caused the crash.
Posted speed limit was 60 and just because everyone else is speeding doesn't change the fact that you were speeding. Likely the speed is 60 for a reason of safety and the fact that someone caused an accident by not paying attention while merging is mostly to blame, but the increased damage/injuries/etc are the fault of the speeding driver, so shouldn't they bear some of the consequences? Simple physics.
Blake
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Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool |
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sivranOpera convertPremium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
kudos:1 | Everyone was speeding so there's no increased blame for anyone except the dipshit who didn't look. In that situation 70 is the safest speed.
I always drive with the flow of traffic as my first consideration. Speed limit is dead last on my list of priorities. That means going 80 when everyone else is (or get the hell over to the right, though if average speed is 80 the slow lane's probably still doing 70). And that's why I don't want a little electronic snitch raising my insurance rates just because some insurance bean counter's definition of safety doesn't match reality.
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Think Outside the Fox. |
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 not
@comcast.net | reply to Link Logger
OBDII+ cars already have snapshot windows of data collection it keeps track of before crashes that can be pulled off the ECU history. Other things like that pretty new OnStar mirror you've got in your car is already tracking your driving habits and can be used against you as well. Heck, if someone was really super inclined to find you guilty of constantly speeding or doing anything else illegal in a car, all they'd have to do is get the GPS data heuristics from your smartphone and you'd be screwed.
Point is, while a ton of people don't like this, it's happening no matter what. Sitting in traffic next to that Google Maps car that's shooting video and pics is breaking your privacy, but you don't see anyone getting out and beating that thing to a pulp, do you? Your WIFI access point has already been mapped out and sitting on Google Maps because you didn't have (NO_MAP) or whatever the opt out SSID append is supposed to be put on it. Wherever you go that there's a camera, you're already logged as being there via that surveillance (even if it's local and not networked). What are you going to do about it? Not buy stuff? Not leave your house? The only think that'll get rid of all this is to put the world back into the dark ages, so unless that's going to happen, learn to deal with it as much as possible until you die. |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
1 edit | reply to Dude111
Re: said by Dude111: THEY ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH FACEBOOK AND THIER STUPID SMARTPHONE!
Yay - it doesn't take long for you to type the word 'Facebook' into any discussion om any topic in here, does it?
Staying on topic was better in the 1980s. People nowadays are more concerned with their stupid conspiracy-theory web sites. |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8 | reply to FF4m3
Re: 'Black Box' Data Recorders Required In All New Cars Hypothesis:
1. Any sufficiently complex software system that does not log runtime diagnostic information is unsupportable in practice. ("Why did it do that?" "We have no way to know").
2. A modern car is essentially software-controlled.
Conclusion:
Building a car without a logging system would be a very poor design choice. Causes of malfunction could not be determined and therefore could not be rectified.
That's probably why most cars (the '90%' figure) already have a data-logging system, irrespective of being compelled by law to do so.
So, it seems to me the practical effect of the law might be quite limited. The "lawyer" argument surely already applies, since it would be a defective lawyer who did not know the opposing car had a data recorder. |
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| reply to not
said by not :Point is, while a ton of people don't like this, it's happening no matter what. ... What are you going to do about it? Not buy stuff? Not leave your house? The only think that'll get rid of all this is to put the world back into the dark ages, so unless that's going to happen, learn to deal with it as much as possible until you die.
I've already said I won't buy.
Resistance is not futile, and it doesn't have to be spectacular. Some people have always resisted when ideas like this get started - they resisted the Nazis, they resisted the Communists. They didn't all blow up bridges like in the movies, either. Eventually these regimes fail.
As for your "dark ages" comment, ponder the idea that some of those dark ages serfs had more actual freedom and led better lives. Shiny isn't automagically good. |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8 | What are you driving today? Doesn't it already have a data recorder? |
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peterboroAvatars are for posersPremium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON | reply to NetFixer
said by NetFixer: How old is the vehicle you currently drive? It's 46 years old and I'm going to be driving after an EMP burst in the coming apocalypse unless you got a bigger gun that me.
The black box will be intricately integrated into the ECU and be next to impossible for the average person to negate. |
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OZOPremium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2 | reply to carpetshark3
said by carpetshark3:It's because most of the people are intent on FB and other distracting activities WHILE DRIVING!
Texting is more important than paying attention to traffic lights. You pass a school bus by using a sidewalk. "Hurray for me and to hell with the rest of the world"
If someone had figure out a good way to police these idiots, the more responsible people would be left alone.
So, ask for it and next generation of EDR will log usage of text messaging, eating and drinking in the cars, singing songs in the cars, talking loud with others in the car, etc. And, of course.all of that will make our cars much safer. Right?
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Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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 BlackbirdBuilt for SpeedPremium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
 ·Frontier Communi..
| reply to NetFixer
said by NetFixer:... "some vehicle models have had recorders since the early 1990s"
How old is the vehicle you currently drive? You may not need to buy a new car to have this technology tattle on you.
21 years old, runs and looks great... and no "black box". I have no problem with black boxes being offered as an option... but I object to having to pay for it if I don't want or feel I need it.
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“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville |
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sivranOpera convertPremium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
kudos:1 | reply to OZO
I'd rather ask for a car that blocked cell phone signals inside.  |
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| reply to Link Logger
That 'black box ' belongs to me . i purchased the vehicle and i'm not giving you permission to remove it or access any data it may contain ...... |
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BlackbirdBuilt for SpeedPremium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
| said by Crowbar1:That 'black box ' belongs to me . i purchased the vehicle and i'm not giving you permission to remove it or access any data it may contain ......
Well, the way things are going in the privacy realm, you may be unpleasantly surprised at what the authorities (via a warrant) or another person's tort lawyer (via discovery) just might be able to do with "your" black box.
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“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville |
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sk1939Premium
join:2010-10-23
Washington, DC
kudos:9 Reviews:
 ·T-Mobile US
| reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:As of 2012 almost all auto manufacturers had these in anticipation of NHTSA requirements. Honda signed an agreement in Sept 12 with Bosch for a publicly available read out tool (to fulfill NHTSA requirements). The tool is probably expensive but you can buy one. Honda's EDR only records if the airbag deploys...so has to be a bad accident. It doesn't record much either. Nothing like OnStar in all GM cars for many years now. My previous car (Ford 1998) did not have an EDR but by 2001 model my Ford started having them. I can't imagine anyone not using the seatbelt (that is recorded on my Honda's EDR if there is an accident that causes airbag deployment) as the beeping is extremely loud, extremely obnoxious, and very distracting. But the car is satisfied if only the lapbelt is on...it is the shoulder belt that is so awfully uncomfortable and causes accidents because you cannot see to back up so I always remove it then) but you can wear it under your arm, tie it to lap belt so it is not on you at all and the car is ok with that and the EDR would record you were wearing a seat belt).
Here's the list of what cars now have EDR's and if they don't when they will:
www.rimkus.com/uploads/pdfs/Event_Data_Recorder.pdf
Interseting, since neither of my Nissan's beep at all when the passenger doesn't wear a seat belt (I always wear a seatbelt). My Civic on the other hand was somewhat obnoxious about it. |
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Link LoggerPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3 | reply to Blackbird
Really guys? Investigation of an accident where criminal charges might be involved you think you should be able to hide evidence, so you can lie about what happened, and duck the consequences, ya right. If you think this is acceptable, your idea of rights are completely screwed.
Blake
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Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8 | reply to sk1939
That list at rimkus.com looks more like a list of "what cars are supported by Event Data Recorder software version 8" than "a list of cars that have Event Data Recorders".
I assume EDR 8.0 is something that rimkus sell. |
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 chip89
join:2012-07-05
Independence, OH | reply to SparkChaser
I know my 2010 Ford escape has one Ford it is even part of sync vehicle health report. |
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