 BlackbirdBuilt for SpeedPremium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
 ·Frontier Communi..
| reply to Link Logger
Re: 'Black Box' Data Recorders Required In All New Cars said by Link Logger:Really guys? Investigation of an accident where criminal charges might be involved you think you should be able to hide evidence, so you can lie about what happened, and duck the consequences, ya right. If you think this is acceptable, your idea of rights are completely screwed. ... I have watched all manner of lawsuits arising worldwide from blackbox data from commercial airliner crashes in which commission-driven lawyers have turned the interpretation of the data upon its head in attempts to get large awards (or by threatening such suits, get large settlements). I have no illusions but that that's what we'll get with mandated automotive blackboxes as well.
As far as the authorities investigating an accident, the presence of blackbox data may or may not improve the quality of the investigation... the data's still subject to interpretation, though it's not an exact science. How many accident investigation teams on your local LE agency will have genuine experts in this - or be willing to pay to retain high-priced experts? One of my concerns is that this will not be the panacea some advocates assert it will be. Our modern belief in the sufficiency and supremacy of technology borders on the idolatrous.
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“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville |
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4
3 edits | reply to sivran
Whoopeedo. Better never visit Hawaii. The speed limit in this state is 55 mph and you MIGHT (usually not though) get away with 60 mph but above that you will be ticketed and that means a mandatory 50% surcharge on your insurance policy for three years (5 years in California and talk of that here in the state legislature). That means a $1200 policy will cost you almost $2000 a year for three years...fine if you are well-to-do but the average person here finds it a struggle so, consequently, most drivers obey the law. Link Logger  thinks it is amusing that folks here feel that the other side of the Big Island is a long drive...it IS at 55 mph on a curvy two lane highway with deep gulches, hairpin curves, boulder landslides, flooding, fog in several areas, steep curvy downhill/uphill 20 mile section scenic, yes, but geared for tourists not locals who don't have 4+ hours in one day to devote to driving over and back nor have $30-50 to spend on gas for 5-6 hours on the other side.
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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 NetFixerFrom my cold dead handsPremium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
 ·Comcast Business..
 ·Vonage
 ·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast
| said by Mele20: Link Logger thinks it is amusing that folks here feel that the other side of the Big Island is a long drive...it IS at 55 mph on a curvy two lane highway with deep gulches, hairpin curves, boulder landslides, flooding, fog in several areas, steep curvy downhill/uphill 20 mile section scenic, yes, but geared for tourists not locals who don't have 4+ hours in one day to devote to driving over and back.
Gee, that sounds a lot like the drives I frequently had to make to rural areas in East Tennessee before I retired. Except there were more than 20 miles of steep curvy downhill/uphill sections, and add sinkholes that spontaneously would appear and wipe out sections of the road, and ice and snow in the winter months. I guess Paradise is pretty much the same everywhere. 
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We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander. |
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 JuggernautIrreverent or irrelevant?Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2 | reply to Mele20
It is a short drive... If I went from one end of BC to the other, it would be 20+ hours North to South. East-West is around 7-8.
I drive the mountains a lot, and there a reasons for speed limits. I usually just enjoy the scenery. Every time I travel, I see something new and different, even in the same places.
You live in paradise. I'm not feeling your pain.
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I'm not anti-social, I just don't like stupid people. |
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 NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:9
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to Blackbird
said by Blackbird:Our modern belief in the sufficiency and supremacy of technology borders on the idolatrous.
Borders on? It is nothing less than!
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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 EGeezerGo CatsPremium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8 | reply to Mele20
Having driven Maui's Hana road Form Kahului to Twin falls and back, I'd say anyone going 55 on that road would have to be nuts.
That being said, the amount of data stored in GPS devices also boggles the mind.
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Buckle Up. It makes it harder for the aliens to suck you out of your car.
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NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:9 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
1 edit | reply to Mele20
said by Mele20: Link Logger thinks it is amusing that folks here feel that the other side of the Big Island is a long drive ...
When I was stationed at Davison Army Airfield, folks seemed surprised at my amusement for being able to cross three state lines in the course of a five hour drive. They could not comprehend driving for 12 hours without crossing a single state line.
... it IS at 55 mph on a curvy two lane highway with deep gulches, hairpin curves, boulder landslides, flooding, fog in several areas, steep curvy downhill/uphill 20 mile section scenic, yes, ...
Edit: Omission.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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 sivranOpera convertPremium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
kudos:1 | reply to Mele20
Your post is highly relevant. |
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| reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:Whoopeedo. Better never visit Hawaii. The speed limit in this state is 55 mph and you MIGHT (usually not though) get away with 60 mph but above that you will be ticketed and that means a mandatory 50% surcharge on your insurance policy for three years (5 years in California and talk of that here in the state legislature). That means a $1200 policy will cost you almost $2000 a year for three years...fine if you are well-to-do but the average person here finds it a struggle so, consequently, most drivers obey the law. Link Logger thinks it is amusing that folks here feel that the other side of the Big Island is a long drive...it IS at 55 mph on a curvy two lane highway with deep gulches, hairpin curves, boulder landslides, flooding, fog in several areas, steep curvy downhill/uphill 20 mile section scenic, yes, but geared for tourists not locals who don't have 4+ hours in one day to devote to driving over and back nor have $30-50 to spend on gas for 5-6 hours on the other side.
If I could, I drove over the speed limit every time I visited. Never caught once on Oahu, Kuaui or Hawaii. Of course most drove so slowly it wouldn't make a difference.
Generally states don't share speeding ticket information and insurance companies only look at DMV information from the state of issue. I know because I had zero change in premium in California after getting a ticket in Idaho.
As to the 4 hours between sides on the Big Island, yup all the plodding drivers make me pull my hair out trying to drive it so I gave up. |
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1 edit | reply to Link Logger
said by Link Logger:Really guys? Investigation of an accident where criminal charges might be involved you think you should be able to hide evidence, so you can lie about what happened, and duck the consequences, ya right. If you think this is acceptable, your idea of rights are completely screwed.
Blake
No, yours are. You act like the police haven't been able to determine fault all this time. However did we survive?
The concern isn't so much about hiding evidence, as giving insurance companies excuses not to pay based on arbitrary metrics and not knowing the situation. Speeding is generally bad, and yet as an example, the Maine state police informally raise the speed limit on their interstates when the summer people are leaving just to get them gone. A police officer would be aware of this, a software program belonging to an insurance carrier would not. So you as a driver could be punished for doing something perfectly legal.
This is not a step forward. However, it would facilitate legislators' ability to tax based on miles driven instead of gas purchased, for example. A whole other can of worms ... |
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gtoken
join:2003-12-28
Fort Smith, AR | said by goalieskates:This is not a step forward. However, it would facilitate legislators' ability to tax based on miles driven instead of gas purchased, for example. A whole other can of worms ...
That's what I'm thinking too. I have heard this idea floated. Since cars are getting better fuel economy than ever the taxes from gas usage is going down. So they (our federal government) will impose a mileage tax and it will come from these new black boxes. I'm pretty much sick of big brother. But, we (and I exclude myself) keep putting them in office. |
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 dandelionPremium,MVM
join:2003-04-29
Germantown, TN
kudos:4 | reply to FF4m3
The saddest part of this "big brother" technological "improvement" is some/a lot of people are either complacent about it.. or actually encourage it as something helpful and innovative. |
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| reply to sivran
said by sivran: And that's why I don't want a little electronic snitch raising my insurance rates just because some insurance bean counter's definition of safety doesn't match reality.
Did you ever stop to think that the speed limit was set because of some inherent safety issue with that stretch of highway?
Insurance bean-counters don't set highway speeds. Traffic engineers in consultation with local law enforcement do.
At the end of it all, if you never have an accident or are never cited for an offense, your insurance company's bean-counters will never know.
And, by definition, if either of those occur, then you weren't as skillful with your vehicle as you thought you were... |
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sivranOpera convertPremium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
kudos:1 | I don't care about a number on a sign. I care about what is actually happening in reality. |
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 HankSearching for a new FrontierPremium
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV
kudos:1 | reply to Secyurityet
said by Secyurityet:said by sivran: And that's why I don't want a little electronic snitch raising my insurance rates just because some insurance bean counter's definition of safety doesn't match reality.
Did you ever stop to think that the speed limit was set because of some inherent safety issue with that stretch of highway? Insurance bean-counters don't set highway speeds. Traffic engineers in consultation with local law enforcement do. At the end of it all, if you never have an accident or are never cited for an offense, your insurance company's bean-counters will never know. And, by definition, if either of those occur, then you weren't as skillful with your vehicle as you thought you were... That is not necessarily true. In some instances people set the speed limit based on the amount of money in the area and their attitude about how that nasty road interrupts the pristine atmosphere of the surrounding area. There are several areas in Loudoun and Faquier Counties in Virginia that this has occurred. |
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NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:9 | Probably the best explanation for the low speed limit on Winchester Boulevard just north of the town of Los Gatos, California.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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sk1939Premium
join:2010-10-23
Washington, DC
kudos:9 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
| reply to Hank
said by Hank:said by Secyurityet:said by sivran: And that's why I don't want a little electronic snitch raising my insurance rates just because some insurance bean counter's definition of safety doesn't match reality.
Did you ever stop to think that the speed limit was set because of some inherent safety issue with that stretch of highway? Insurance bean-counters don't set highway speeds. Traffic engineers in consultation with local law enforcement do. At the end of it all, if you never have an accident or are never cited for an offense, your insurance company's bean-counters will never know. And, by definition, if either of those occur, then you weren't as skillful with your vehicle as you thought you were... That is not necessarily true. In some instances people set the speed limit based on the amount of money in the area and their attitude about how that nasty road interrupts the pristine atmosphere of the surrounding area. There are several areas in Loudoun and Faquier Counties in Virginia that this has occurred. Fairfax is infamous for this imo, it's the reason a 4 lane divided road has a speed limit of 35 mph. |
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Reviews:
·Charter
| They should declare all laws of the road unconstitutional.
It my right to drive and my right to drive how I want to drive.
Every law I don't agree with is a bad law that limits my freedom.
Sorry... I just thought I would join in with the stupid comments. |
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 not
@comcast.net | reply to goalieskates
Re: 'Black Box' Data Recorders Required In All New Cars said by goalieskates:I've already said I won't buy.
Resistance is not futile, and it doesn't have to be spectacular. Some people have always resisted when ideas like this get started - they resisted the Nazis, they resisted the Communists. They didn't all blow up bridges like in the movies, either. Eventually these regimes fail.
As for your "dark ages" comment, ponder the idea that some of those dark ages serfs had more actual freedom and led better lives. Shiny isn't automagically good.
It won't work. The number of non-buyers won't outweigh the numbers of buyers and the companies won't fall. So, your "fight the corporate world" won't work. A good example of this is RIM (the Blackberry maker). Look how many people were trying to not buy they products and make a dent in their future. It didn't happen. It wasn't until a couple of years ago that more and more people moved onto Android and most importantly, their larger corporate contracts moved onto iPhones (due to more carriers having the iPhone now) that their company is finally in trouble. Even so, they're still surviving. It takes a really long time to resist and an amazing number of people and most importantly other corporations to fight just one company with deep pockets. Good and luck if you think your 1 man fight will do anything. lol |
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