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ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to PX Eliezer7

the balance!

said by PX Eliezer7:

… Your complaints against CC are legendary. I'm not talking just about recent stuff. It began over a year ago over esoteric matters like having a [+] sign in CID. …

LOL. I'm flattered you remember my every complaint, especially those against CallCentric!

I'm trying so hard in order to bring the slightest balance to the table. Google-Voice-and-IPKall-are-bad-'cause-free-no-support, noone-needs-SMS, which-rate-center-do-you-require, don't-forget-to-dial-011, why-would-anyone-need-TCP and Apple-is-bad is basically the never-ending theme of the regulars in this forum! :-p

Stewart

join:2005-07-13
kudos:25

Unfortunately, rate centers still do matter. Suppose your mom lives in Palo Alto. She has an AT&T landline with unlimited local calling and a prepaid cell phone, calls you frequently (using the landline, of course), and talks for a long time. If you choose a number in SNJS NORTH, those calls would be local and free for her; SNJS SOUTH would be a message rate toll call.


nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
reply to ConstantineM

Re: [General] Google voice going paid?

said by ConstantineM:

End You guys live in your magic NA VoIP world where noone needs SMS.

I'd love to offer SMS, but it takes a lot more than wishful thinking. SMS-enabled carriers are very few (I can only think of one) and then they don't even offer it themselves - you have to go through another company to actually offer the SMS capability. Last I checked it costs a few thousands to setup and at least $1/mo extra per DID on top of what we already pay per DID, not to mention the carrier(s) who supports it is more expensive and more of a pain in the ass to deal with than alternatives. It's easy for you to say "you should offer it!" but are consumers really willing to pay $2-3 extra a month just to have SMS? you- maybe, but everybody? that's a risk I'm not willing to take at this point - especially not when there are "free" alternatives like Google Voice. Why would someone port their number over to us and pay us $7-8/mo for an SMS-enabled DID when they could do it for free?

You talk like we (providers) have this secret handshake where we'd agreed on depriving users of SMS. That's not the case- I've been wanting to offer it for years. When I checked multiple times it just wasn't economical. I hope it will get cheaper in the future, but that's not up to providers - it's up to the one company who offers SMS to VOIP providers.

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
reply to cell14

said by cell14:

With a real CS and some improvements they could start charging and even with the current set up a 0.25c/min charge would be tolerable for many people.

Real customer service? with Google? lol I don't think so.

And if they charge it won't be 0.25c/minute - expect more like 1cent a minute or more, plus a monthly charge ranging from $1 to ??? per month - in other words, what everybody else charges because we're all dependent on the cost structure of telephony that doesn't change just because you're Google.

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to Stewart

Re: the balance!

Do you actually know if there is a difference between SNJS NORTH and SNJS SOUTH, or is it just hot air? Why would calls between Palo Alto and SNJS NORTH be free; they're not even in the same NPA.

Moreover, your example doesn't pass a simple BS test. Unlike still in Canada, in the US it's been a long time as US-wide long distance is completely complementary with every single wireless provider; plus, last I checked, even Embarq offered relatively affordable long distance plans on their landline back in the day when I was forced to have one; I'm sure AT&T does, too. Nowadays everyone has a phone with some kind of unlimited minutes; noone even knows what a ratecenter is, or which one they're "assigned to".

I know of noone in the US who would switch their mobile phone number from SNJS NORTH to Palo Alto if they ever move from one city to the next; if I ever meet such a person, I'll make sure to ask them for their rationale, and, most likely, tell them that they're an idiot. Every single person I know who've moved to the Bay Area from another state or a part of the state, has kept their old phone number. Anyone who has moved within the Bay Area did so, too. 408/650/415/510 are all interchanged. I'm 100% certain that most calls anyone gets these days are not local calls within their ratecenter from their mother; it's probably mostly new friends, plus a couple of old ones, but mostly new. Again, for us, the cloud computing generation, the ratecenters are completely meaningless; a nearby NPA with a great mnemonic number is good enough. My Bay Area number is 7-letter–digit mnemonic. :-) No common provider other than Google offers this publicly and at nominal cost (being — mnemonics really do cost the same as regular numbers).



bbbc

join:2001-10-02
NorthAmerica
kudos:2
Reviews:
·FreedomPop
reply to dicodread

(888) 888-8888

Getting vanity numbers is a total bitch. Here is one example, I wanted a number that a guy had with TMO prepaid. He said I could buy it off of him. I killed him with kindness. At one point, he was supposed to meet my mom, he flaked. He flaked on me several times after that. My family told me to give it up after a few months. Long story short, kept my cool, and got the number from the effer.

Other times, I have requested numbers from the local telcos of the areas I wanted and usually have to do it as a business number that terminates as voicemail in the CO. After I establish this new service and get the first bill, I port the sucker(s) to my VoIP provider. This avenue can easily cost $100+ to get done and a lot of patience.

--
Consumerist.com | Consumers Union


Stewart

join:2005-07-13
kudos:25
reply to ConstantineM

Re: the balance!

said by ConstantineM:

Do you actually know if there is a difference between SNJS NORTH and SNJS SOUTH, or is it just hot air? ... even Embarq offered relatively affordable long distance plans on their landline back in the day when I was forced to have one; I'm sure AT&T does, too.

OK, I was slightly wrong; bay area local calling areas have actually shrunk since I lived there!

Looking at AT&T.com, if you live e.g. in Los Altos, the lowest cost flat-rate non-lifeline residential landline is $21/mo. (+ fees and taxes), while the lowest cost package with unlimited nationwide calling is $42. Now, if you go to »localcalling.sbc.com/ and enter 650-559, you will see that 408-232 (SNJS North) is in the local calling are, while 408-224 (SNJS South) is not.

You can also try entering the latter two exchange codes and see that Sunol is a local call from San Jose, but only if you live in the southern part.

wideglide36

join:2003-11-08
Altoona, PA
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Future Nine Corp..
reply to dicodread

Re: [General] Google voice going paid?

Just thinking out loud here.

If Google Voice does eventually turn into a paid service and offers competitive rates and 911 service, plus maybe a few other goodies, why would someone want to pay to port out?

Unless the other big Voip companies offered free porting as some did during the CC problems.

I just don't see the advantage in changing from Google Voice to another Voip if all things considered are fairly even.

I'm sure I'm missing something.

Also, in the case of vanity numbers, I don't understand the point of getting a number such as xxx-ROOF.

Who wants to figure out the numbers that correlate with ROOF?

Wouldn't it be better to instead use a number with a popular date such as 1225 or 0704 or 0101?

Again, just thinking out loud.......


PX Eliezer7
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms

1 recommendation

reply to ConstantineM

Re: and ratecenters are still irrelevant to real people

said by ConstantineM:

stupid providers like Anveo

There you go again.

Well, I do compliment you for consistency, Constantine.

You've made it clear that you disdain every VoIP provider with equal impartiality (except the limited-service providers GoogleVoice and IPKall).

PX Eliezer7
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms

1 edit
reply to Stewart

Re: the balance!

People who grew up after the mid-1980's or who came to the US after that period, are probably not so familiar with the history and the rationale for the LATA's.

LATA's were a necessary tool for allowing CLEC's to come into the marketplace without total chaos.

California (both Verizon areas and AT&T/SBC areas) also has the concept of Zone Unit Management (ZUM).

In most states we have:

Local calling
Local/Regional toll (Intra-LATA)
Long distance (Inter-LATA)

Whereas in most California areas it is akin to:

Local calling
ZUM-3 (typically 13-16 miles in metro areas)
Local/Regional toll (Intra-LATA)
Long distance (Inter-LATA)

I would agree that THAT goes beyond what is needed for carrier competition. At this point there probably should be no service distinctions other than Intra-LATA and Inter-LATA.



bbbc

join:2001-10-02
NorthAmerica
kudos:2
Reviews:
·FreedomPop
reply to wideglide36

Bastille Day better?

said by wideglide36 :

Also, in the case of vanity numbers, I don't understand the point of getting a number such as xxx-ROOF.

Who wants to figure out the numbers that correlate with ROOF?

Wouldn't it be better to instead use a number with a popular date such as 1225 or 0704 or 0101?

Figure out, give me a break. So, you drive by a yard sign that has local area code, known prefix, and then roof - (XXX) XXX-ROOF. Yeah, (XXX) XXX-7389 is so much easier and catchy to remember. Trying to obtain the same last four digits is impossible in a big metro area. As far as popular dates, should Bastille Day be used?

--
Consumerist.com | Consumers Union

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to wideglide36

Re: [General] Google voice going paid?

said by wideglide36:

Wouldn't it be better to instead use a number with a popular date such as 1225 or 0704 or 0101?

These don't look like dates to me; other than 0101, they're not even catchy; besides, there's only so many 7777 numbers that you can get, and they probably SHOULD cost a premium, because it's obviously a limited supply and might be most valuable to businesses.

Mnemonics, on the other hand, are simply random digits that would only matter to certain people, and would look completely random to the overall population; there's hardly any scarcity for random numbers; hence I think mnemonics should be provided complementary and at no extra charge, and not be tied down to having to select a specific NPA-NXX, because nowadays worrying about ratecenters is nonsense. Limiting the search to an overall geographic area with a couple NPAs is useful, but nothing more.

wideglide36

join:2003-11-08
Altoona, PA
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Future Nine Corp..
reply to bbbc

Re: Bastille Day better?

Hey, relax a bit. I meant no disrespect to xxx-ROOF.

Most people don't know the date of Bastille Day, and I realize you were being facetious, but most people do know and could remember the dates for X-mas and the Fourth of July as well as New Years Day.

I see your point as well. I was just thinking out loud.

Jeesh.........


wideglide36

join:2003-11-08
Altoona, PA
reply to ConstantineM

Re: [General] Google voice going paid?

1225 and 0704 don't look like dates?

They sure do to me.


rblizz

join:2001-12-16
North Richland Hills, TX
Reviews:
·Callcentric

said by wideglide36:

1225 and 0704 don't look like dates?

They sure do to me.

Me too, seeing as though both my wife and daughter we're born on 7-4 -- oh, and something else happened on that date also. Something about fire in the sky and booms and what not.

And 12-25 ... uh, probably the best known date in Christendom.

PX Eliezer7
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to wideglide36

said by wideglide36:

1225 and 0704 don't look like dates?

They sure do to me.

I think that the gentleman grew up in a country where:

1) It wasn't 12/25 but rather 25/12.

2) And that's not Christmas anyway, rather the date is January 7th. (Actually, the Russian Orthodox Church still uses the Julian calendar. What is December 25 on the Julian calender comes out to January 7 on the Gregorian calendar that the world commonly uses, so when they celebrate Christmas it will be January 7 on the common calendar).

3) It's not 07/04 but rather 04/07.

4) And in any event that date means nothing special in the former USSR, Russian Federation, or the CIS.

Apocryphal sign seen on the British Embassy in Washington on the Fourth of July one year:

“Due to circumstances beyond our control, the embassy will be closed today.”


ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to wideglide36

said by wideglide36:

1225 and 0704 don't look like dates?

They sure do to me.

If you single the numbers out from the NXX, they might; if you only have 1 second or so to look at a billboard, they don't. (On the other hand, NXX-ROOF is indeed a catchy number.)

Besides, how NPA-NXX-1225 is supposed to be personal to anyone? Why do you think that you deserve to have a number with 1225, and not the next person? Very greedy, and not very Christmas-like, if you ask me; are you the Grinch who stole Christmas? :-p

mitchflorida

join:2004-09-01
Deerfield Beach, FL

I am doubting that Google will charge for GV next year. We would have heard about it by now, they have to give some advance notice at least 30 days.


PX Eliezer7
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13

AFAIK a provider has to give 30 days notice only if phone service is being discontinued.

Charging for US calls (they already charge for overseas calls) does not constitute discontinuation...


PX Eliezer7
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13

The Canadian company [Pizza Pizza] used the Toronto number 967-1111 which is jingled as [967-Eleven-Eleven] with much success.


cell14

join:2012-01-04
Miami Beach, FL
reply to PX Eliezer7

While off topic : The 09-12-2012 format9 for today's date0 is mandated on all immigration forms in the U.S.(!)
I personally use the global standard 2012-12-09.


cell14

join:2012-01-04
Miami Beach, FL
Reviews:
·localphone.com
reply to blohner

said by blohner:

. (Not to beat a dead horse but at my parents place in good old Germany I get 16/1 internet, unlimited local calls, 4 DiDs, 4 Mobile SIM cards with unlimited outgoing to domestic landlines for the price of 30EUR from multiple providers... - not sure why it is such a problem to provide the same service on this side of the Atlantic)

Because Germany is moving forward while the US backward. 20 years ago, you paid in Germany 1 mark/minute for a domestic call over 100km , paid rent for your WWII rotary phone and the phone was fixed into the outlet and it was a crime(!) to open it.
Now they have more competition and better regulation than the US where regulation became a dirty word.

wideglide36

join:2003-11-08
Altoona, PA
reply to ConstantineM

Am I the Grinch who stole Christmas? Are you for real?

I never said I deserved anything. Why do you feel the need to twist everything around?

Your comments make no sense.

So I will ignore them....


PX Eliezer7
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to cell14

said by cell14:

I personally use the global standard 2012-12-09.

ISO Standard 8601 for Dates (and Times)
All the way back in 1988, the International Standards Organization (ISO) decided, for obvious reasons, that these country-specific all-numeric date formats had to go. The ISO standard date format is defined in the ISO 8601:

yyyy-mm-dd

This ISO 8601 format for dates has a number of good features.

It has a four-digit year.
It is unambiguous around the world.
It can easily be sorted by a computer.
And since nobody was using it before, it avoids favoring the traditions of any one country over another.

Well, if NO one was using it before, it is contrived and unnatural.

Like many "international" standards.

That would be like mandating that the UN only do business in Esperanto. After all, there's no favoritism in doing so.

Camels and committees and all that.

---------------------------

Reminds me of the European Union, when they started to print EU currency rather than print scenes from Paris or Madrid or any other real place, they made up fictional scenery so as not to offend anyone. Typical for the Eurocrats.... Pretend scenery for a pretend currency.

andre2

join:2005-08-24
Brookline, MA
reply to mitchflorida

Their announcement last year that 2012 would be free was on December 13. So we should know in a few days.

»googlevoiceblog.blogspot.com/201···ada.html


cell14

join:2012-01-04
Miami Beach, FL
Reviews:
·localphone.com
reply to PX Eliezer7

There is nothing unnatural on international standards. US has a big problem with that, at the costs of billions. Just look at the mess with wireless standards, voltage, frequency,paper sizes, weights/measures etc. Retarded traditionalism comes at cost.
I would not use Esperanto as an example, it is biased( based on small group of predominantly romantic languages), nor a political nonsense like Euro.


gweidenh

join:2002-05-18
Houston, TX
kudos:3

1 recommendation

This forum's ability to get off topic never ceases to amaze me.


cell14

join:2012-01-04
Miami Beach, FL

It always happens on long threads.



Trimline
Premium
join:2004-10-24
Windermere, FL
reply to gweidenh

said by gweidenh:

This forum's ability to get off topic never ceases to amaze me.

+1

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
reply to gweidenh

said by gweidenh:

This forum's ability to get off topic never ceases to amaze me.

I think now's our cue to get into a heated discussion about how we define a topic, what's REALLY considered off topic and what's just a slight deviation from the topic, and get really, really, REALLY heated up about it. If you're gonna go off-topic, win it!

I'll go get the popcorn.