VOIP etc > Voice Over IP - VOIP > VOIP Tech Chat > [General] Google voice going paid?

·VOIPo

·PHONE POWER

·VoicePulse

reply to PX Eliezer

Re: the balance!

said by PX Eliezer:

Whereas in most California areas it is akin to:

Local calling
ZUM-3 (typically 13-16 miles in metro areas)
Local/Regional toll (Intra-LATA)
Long distance (Inter-LATA)

I would agree that THAT goes beyond what is needed for carrier competition. At this point there probably should be no service distinctions other than Intra-LATA and Inter-LATA.

As a person who came to the US in 1990, I was amused that to call from Encino to Irvine (about 50 miles distance) was 10 times more expensive than to call New York...
--
Technical problems are more often than not management incompetence masquerading as technical issues

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 01:45:27 ·

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

Reviews:

reply to PX Eliezer

Re: [General] Google voice going paid?

Where'd you get the quote that ISO8601 format was not used anywhere prior to being invented by the ISO?

Today's date in Japanese is 2012年12月09日, and other asian languages likewise prefer Year-Month-Day notation, the only notation that makes sense and which is computer-friendly. ISO8601 is hardly a nuisance to anyone.

And if you think that people should be free to use whichever notation they feel like, go to Canada: today's date there can be expressed as 2012-12-09, 09/12/2012 and 12/09/2012. Canadians, eh? :-) Ever seen a couple of Canadian cheques from different Canadian banks? :-) I'm not even kidding: all three date formats are entirely valid! Check it out: »www.cdnpay.ca/imis15/eng/faqs/ch···te_Field

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 02:04:10 ·

jubangy
Premium
join:2005-03-26
Corry, PA

reply to OZO
quite frankly if they did start charging a reasonable amount I would probably stick with them. I have used a few other voip providers in the past and neither of them ever had the up time or hassle free reliability I have experienced with google. I use simongvgateway with it, and pbxes.org and my phone has not had a hiccup since it connected to pbxes after setup. that has been a while to say the least. Not to mention the sprint integration, the fact i have had no issues with faxing or devices like satellite receivers phoning home without issue. not bad for free.

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 02:43:11 ·

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

reply to ConstantineM

said by ConstantineM:

And if you think that people should be free to use whichever notation they feel like, go to Canada: today's date there can be expressed as 2012-12-09, 09/12/2012 and 12/09/2012. Canadians, eh? :-) Ever seen a couple of Canadian cheques from different Canadian banks? :-) I'm not even kidding: all three date formats are entirely valid! Check it out: »www.cdnpay.ca/imis15/eng/faqs/ch···te_Field

Wow! How those guys (who wrote the spec) are going to recognize what does '12092012' mean? Is it December 09 or it's September 12. Or may be it's even December 20, 1209? (not very probable, but theoretically possible) That's why I've mentioned the importance of the delimiters. 12/09/2012 means December 09, while 12.09.2012 means September 12. And that's why ISO uses '-' as its distinguished delimiter too.

Thanks god they don't yet offer to use ':' as a delimiter or we'll have to guess if it's a time or date...

--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 03:25:12 ·

NotTheMama
What Would Earl Do?

join:2012-12-06

1 edit

Just one reason why I like ~~09Dec2012~~ 10Dec2012 better--no ambiguity.

Edit: 12/12/12 -- that is all.

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 03:59:55 ·

SCADAGeo

join:2012-11-08
N California

reply to dicodread

said by Arne Bolen:

Google needs to decide what to do with Google Voice. Currently the service doesn't create any revenue for Google except for outgoing calls outside of North America.

Google gains data.

Does anyone know if Google receives termination payments when someone calls a GV number?

I seem to recall that Google had to pay termination fees, too, because they refused to complete calls to the Iowa terminated free conferencing/international calling companies a few years ago?

said by nitzan:

said by cell14:

Or some other companies not to be named who only take minimum payments of 15.- or even 25(!) dollars!

This is actually by design, for a couple of reasons:
1. The transaction fee on a $1 payment is 30%. For a $5 payment it's 9%. a $15 payment it's 5%. a $25 payment it's 4%. If a provider allowed you to make $1 payments they'd have to jack up their prices 30% to make up for it. If you take a close look you'll see providers offering lower payment options also tend to be more expensive.
2. No offense to small-time users, but $15 is not a lot. I'd expect a typical user to go through that in a couple of months. In a way by offering a higher minimum payment you can prevent infrequent users from signing up. A while ago I had a problem with a user because he used about $1 of calls in 2 months, and opened around 16 support cases during the same time. You can't handle users like that and remain profitable.

I didn't realize the transaction fees were so high.

Now that makes sense (or is that cents

), thanks for sharing that.

I like to pre-pay a small amount at a time (without automatic recharge on a credit card), as part of a defensive strategy.

I'll have to increase the amount on the next pre-payment.

said by PX Eliezer:

The same reason that the US and the European Union have gone after Microsoft.

In the short term, the fact that Microsoft had (and pushed) a free browser was good for consumers.

In the long term, it discouraged innovation. MS saturating the market with a free browser killed off better ones such as Netscape.

Microsoft had some interesting strategies during the early browser wars in the mid-1990's.

It wasn't the fact that Internet Explorer was free, there were other things that occurred in the background, such as inducing artificial delays (timeouts, password failures, etc) in Microsoft's IIS whenever a Netscape browser was used as the client.

Netscape fought back, doing the same thing with their Server, locking out Internet Explorer clients.
The was the solution on the browser side.

Some folks may find the early Microsoft/Apple multi-media war interesting, too.

said by cell14:

Now I indeed pay in 5 or 10 $ increments and I would even pay more I just do not want to loose more money to possible SIP scammers/scanners.

Good defensive strategy.

said by nitzan:

And then you'd have customers up in arms and complaining

That's true, too.

said by Trev:

and direct deposit / wire transfers.

Wow... is ACH considered direct deposit?

said by ConstantineM:

2. Mnemonic phone numbers, without any "select a state/city" bullshit.

said by bbbc:

Humm, most of my DIDs are vanity / phonewords. These numbers are never easy to get and I pay for it.

Speaking about phone numbers, I ran across this article the other day: The FCC's Numbers Racket: S*N*A*F*U* In Progress?

said by ConstantineM:

For the record, I don't think it's fair to blame any VoIP provider when XO et al are at fault.

I agree.

said by rblizz:

My problem with Google Voice is I never know what they're going to be doing next year -- or next week. They've committed to nothing.

said by bbbc:

Aren't they (Google) using us as cheap guinea pigs to master voice recognition for their other products?

I'm not sure about Google being committed to nothing, they are gathering data.

I believe it's more along the lines of Google not broadcasting their long term plans.

Perhaps they just wanted to be a disruptor, such as when they bid on the wireless spectrum, or when they rolled out 1 gibibit/sec fiber for a really low price.

Maybe one day, I'll call my Google car (via my android phone, using Google Voice over a Google mesh network) and it will automatically drive me home.

It may even turn on the HVAC system, open the garage door, park itself in the garage, turn off the house alarm system, and unlock the house door, before recharging itself (during off peak hours, of course).

More than likely, though, I'm just too short sighted to see how GV could evolve into other fields...

said by cell14:

said by nitzan:

if and when they start charging for service the grand majority of users will move on to real VOIP providers.

I would not be so sure.
With a real CS and some improvements they could start charging and even with the current set up a 0.25c/min charge would be tolerable for many people.

Inertia plays a role, too.

It's why some folks are still on POTS.

said by blohner:

not sure why it is such a problem to provide the same service on this side of the Atlantic

That's an easy question to answer: legacy infrastructure, industries that were exempt from the Sherman Antitrust act, and politics!

said by ConstantineM:

Again, NPAs matter somewhat. Rate centers — try explaining their concept to a foreigner without feeling utterly stupid and irrelevant.

Legacy systems are not always logical, but here's a good starting point.

said by ConstantineM:

Why would calls between Palo Alto and SNJS NORTH be free; they're not even in the same NPA.

Legacy PSTN calls are based upon distance (zones).

Your neighbor across the street may have a different area code in another rate center, but the call will still be local.

said by Stewart:

OK, I was slightly wrong; bay area local calling areas have actually shrunk since I lived there!

New area codes have been added since I lived there!

said by PX Eliezer:

California (both Verizon areas and AT&T/SBC areas) also has the concept of Zone Unit Management (ZUM).

---

Whereas in most California areas it is akin to:

Local calling
ZUM-3 (typically 13-16 miles in metro areas)
Local/Regional toll (Intra-LATA)
Long distance (Inter-LATA)

A Zone 3 call could cost more per minute than a regional toll call, and a lot more than a long distance call.

Rates were based upon the time of day, and day of the week, too.

said by gweidenh:

This forum's ability to get off topic never ceases to amaze me.

What was the topic again?

said by OZO:

At least I'm glad that they don't try to divide numbers by 1024 and call it "Kilo"... like we do it here with our files...

It's now knows as a kibibyte (KiB)!

said by ymhee_bcex:

As a person who came to the US in 1990, I was amused that to call from Encino to Irvine (about 50 miles distance) was 10 times more expensive than to call New York...

Welcome to California!

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 06:28:31 ·

NotTheMama
What Would Earl Do?

join:2012-12-06

said by SCADAGeo:

said by OZO:

At least I'm glad that they don't try to divide numbers by 1024 and call it "Kilo"... like we do it here with our files...

It's now knows as a kibibyte (KiB)!

No, it's still known as "binary" (which either one understands or one doesn't).

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 07:33:21 ·

PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13

Reviews:

·voip.ms

·Optimum Voice

·Vitelity VOIP

·Gizmo5

reply to ConstantineM

said by ConstantineM:

Where'd you get the quote that ISO8601 format was not used anywhere prior to being invented by the ISO?

»www.uic.edu/depts/accc/software/···dex.html
University of Illinois at Chicago
Academic Computing and Communications Center

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 08:07:00 ·

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

Reviews:

reply to NotTheMama

said by NotTheMama:

said by SCADAGeo:

said by OZO:

At least I'm glad that they don't try to divide numbers by 1024 and call it "Kilo"... like we do it here with our files...

It's now knows as a kibibyte (KiB)!

No, it's still known as "binary" (which either one understands or one doesn't).

And you know what they say, there are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those that understand binary and those that don't.

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 13:02:00 ·

NotTheMama
What Would Earl Do?

join:2012-12-06

That's what I'm talkin' about!

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 13:26:13 ·

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

Reviews:

reply to OZO

Canadian cheques...

They have translucent letters under each field that tells the user what kind of the date format they're supposed to use. And cheques by different banks have different kind of formats, no kidding there! I'm not sure if you can request a specific date format as a user; but I guess you can simply switch banks if you disagree with your bank's selection (or perhaps order custom cheques from an official printer?). :-) That's probably the Canadian way: quietly fix it yourself, instead of going around, complaining and petitioning.

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 14:24:43 ·

Trev
IP Telephony Addict
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC
kudos:4

said by ConstantineM:

Some people are rebellious. I oven receive cheques where the date has just been hand written "Dec 10/12" right over top of the date field with no regard to where specific numbers should go

Of course the whole point of the exercise was so computers could read the cheques to parse the amount and date. That's why you see the letters in bold print below the spaces for you to write each digit of the date.
--
Wondering what I do? Find out at »www.digitalcon.ca
Get your Obihai ATA in Canada.

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 14:38:51 ·

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

reply to ConstantineM
Do they use mm/ss/hh format for time too? Or may be that's mm:ss:hh? That'd be fun...

If seriously, I do as you mentioned - the Canadian way. I switched all my computers to ISO date format as more practical for me. But when I sign a check, I use mm/dd/yy format.. But I still "complain", or rather try to educate people how important delimiters are, because it makes reading less ambiguous for everyone...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 14:40:49 ·

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

Reviews:

said by OZO:

If seriously, I do as you mentioned - the Canadian way. I switched all my computers to ISO date format as more practical for me. But when I sign a check, I use mm/dd/yy format.. But I still "complain", or rather try to educate people how important delimiters are, because it makes reading less ambiguous for everyone...

Why would you not switch to ISO8601 on American cheques, which have a free-style date notation? I've been using ISO8601 on my American cheques all the time without any issues.

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 14:56:04 ·

PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13

Reviews:

·voip.ms

·Optimum Voice

·Vitelity VOIP

·Gizmo5

reply to ConstantineM

said by ConstantineM:

That's probably the Canadian way: quietly fix it yourself, instead of going around, complaining and petitioning.

Imagine that.

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 15:08:49 ·

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

reply to ConstantineM
Because I'm afraid, that the clerk, who will use it, doesn't know abut ISO or any standards at all...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 15:10:08 ·

Trev
IP Telephony Addict
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC
kudos:4

reply to ConstantineM

Here's some show and tell. A Canadian cheque on top and an American check on the bottom

We have computer cheques too which don't have any of the guides as the computer prints everything aside from the MICR at the bottom.

Also notice that Canadian regulations require there to be no background art where the date, amount, and MICR coding is. This to to aid in their attempts for computer recognition of cheques.

.... now, what were we talking about in this thread again?

Oh yes, VoIP services wholesale vendors who charge fees for payments. Yes, in the example I described a few posts ago ACH is charged the same transaction fee as everything else, thus making the transaction fee BS and a crappy business practice.
--
Wondering what I do? Find out at »www.digitalcon.ca
Get your Obihai ATA in Canada.

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 15:10:43 ·

PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13

Reviews:

·voip.ms

·Optimum Voice

·Vitelity VOIP

·Gizmo5

reply to ConstantineM

said by ConstantineM:

Why would you not switch to ISO8601 on American cheques, which have a free-style date notation?

While there are Canadian cheques and American checks, AFAIK there are not any American cheques.

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 15:12:23 ·

SCADAGeo

join:2012-11-08
N California

reply to dicodread

Re: [General] Google voice going paid?

said by SCADAGeo:

It's now knows as a kibibyte (KiB)!

Darn typo! It should be _known_ instead of _knows_.

said by garys_2k:

And you know what they say, there are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those that understand binary and those that don't.

said by NotTheMama:

That's what I'm talkin' about!

The "bi" in kibibyte is for binary.

said by Trev:

Yes, in the example I described a few posts ago ACH is charged the same transaction fee as everything else, thus making the transaction fee BS and a crappy business practice.

Thanks.

said by PX Eliezer:

While there are Canadian cheques and American checks, AFAIK there are not any American cheques.

You like to-may-toes and I like to-mah-toes...

to forum · permalink · 2012-12-10 16:21:49 ·

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

Reviews: