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ConstantineM
join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

ConstantineM to OZO

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Canadian cheques...

They have translucent letters under each field that tells the user what kind of the date format they're supposed to use. And cheques by different banks have different kind of formats, no kidding there! I'm not sure if you can request a specific date format as a user; but I guess you can simply switch banks if you disagree with your bank's selection (or perhaps order custom cheques from an official printer?). :-) That's probably the Canadian way: quietly fix it yourself, instead of going around, complaining and petitioning.

Trev
AcroVoice & DryVoIP Official Rep
Premium Member
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC

Trev

Premium Member

said by ConstantineM:

They have translucent letters under each field that tells the user what kind of the date format they're supposed to use. And cheques by different banks have different kind of formats, no kidding there! I'm not sure if you can request a specific date format as a user; but I guess you can simply switch banks if you disagree with your bank's selection (or perhaps order custom cheques from an official printer?). :-) That's probably the Canadian way: quietly fix it yourself, instead of going around, complaining and petitioning.

Some people are rebellious. I oven receive cheques where the date has just been hand written "Dec 10/12" right over top of the date field with no regard to where specific numbers should go

Of course the whole point of the exercise was so computers could read the cheques to parse the amount and date. That's why you see the letters in bold print below the spaces for you to write each digit of the date.
OZO
Premium Member
join:2003-01-17

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Do they use mm/ss/hh format for time too? Or may be that's mm:ss:hh? That'd be fun...

If seriously, I do as you mentioned - the Canadian way. I switched all my computers to ISO date format as more practical for me. But when I sign a check, I use mm/dd/yy format.. But I still "complain", or rather try to educate people how important delimiters are, because it makes reading less ambiguous for everyone...
ConstantineM
join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

ConstantineM

Member

said by OZO:

If seriously, I do as you mentioned - the Canadian way. I switched all my computers to ISO date format as more practical for me. But when I sign a check, I use mm/dd/yy format.. But I still "complain", or rather try to educate people how important delimiters are, because it makes reading less ambiguous for everyone...

Why would you not switch to ISO8601 on American cheques, which have a free-style date notation? I've been using ISO8601 on my American cheques all the time without any issues.
PX Eliezer704
Premium Member
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River

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said by ConstantineM:

That's probably the Canadian way: quietly fix it yourself, instead of going around, complaining and petitioning.

Imagine that.
OZO
Premium Member
join:2003-01-17

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Because I'm afraid, that the clerk, who will use it, doesn't know abut ISO or any standards at all...

Trev
AcroVoice & DryVoIP Official Rep
Premium Member
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC

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Click for full size
Here's some show and tell. A Canadian cheque on top and an American check on the bottom

We have computer cheques too which don't have any of the guides as the computer prints everything aside from the MICR at the bottom.

Also notice that Canadian regulations require there to be no background art where the date, amount, and MICR coding is. This to to aid in their attempts for computer recognition of cheques.

.... now, what were we talking about in this thread again?

Oh yes, VoIP services wholesale vendors who charge fees for payments. Yes, in the example I described a few posts ago ACH is charged the same transaction fee as everything else, thus making the transaction fee BS and a crappy business practice.
PX Eliezer704
Premium Member
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River

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said by ConstantineM:

Why would you not switch to ISO8601 on American cheques, which have a free-style date notation?

While there are Canadian cheques and American checks, AFAIK there are not any American cheques.
SCADAGeo
Premium Member
join:2012-11-08
N California

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Re: [General] Google voice going paid?

said by SCADAGeo:

It's now knows as a kibibyte (KiB)!

Darn typo! It should be _known_ instead of _knows_.
said by garys_2k:

And you know what they say, there are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those that understand binary and those that don't.

said by NoHereNoMo:

That's what I'm talkin' about!

The "bi" in kibibyte is for binary.
said by Trev:

Yes, in the example I described a few posts ago ACH is charged the same transaction fee as everything else, thus making the transaction fee BS and a crappy business practice.

Thanks.
said by PX Eliezer704:

While there are Canadian cheques and American checks, AFAIK there are not any American cheques.

You like to-may-toes and I like to-mah-toes...
ConstantineM
join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

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Re: Canadian cheques...

said by OZO:

Because I'm afraid, that the clerk, who will use it, doesn't know abut ISO or any standards at all...

So what? No reasonable person would be confused by an ISO date, especially in the US, where month already precedes the date in the numeric notations, and either way, you can't make a mistake which number is the year when you use 4 digit years.

And I would not buy any arguments that banks could possibly afford to hire complete idiots as staff, so, I don't see any problem with using ISO8601 when drawing a free-form cheque in the US. I never had a problem even in a small town local bank in North Carolina.
NoHereNoMo
join:2012-12-06

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Re: [General] Google voice going paid?

said by SCADAGeo:

The "bi" in kibibyte is for binary.

The "K" in KB is for 1024.
SCADAGeo
Premium Member
join:2012-11-08
N California

SCADAGeo

Premium Member

said by NoHereNoMo:

The "K" in KB is for 1024.

:D
Fisamo
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join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC

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said by OZO:

said by PX Eliezer704:

Speaking of delightful delimiters, don't get me started on how they do things in India.

They take 653,275,829 and make it into:

65,32,75,829

and call it:

Sixty five crore, thirty two lakh, seventy five thousand, eight hundred twenty nine.

At least I'm glad that they don't try to divide numbers by 1024 and call it "Kilo"... like we do it here with our files...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

Sort of like trying to mix binary and base 10?
Fisamo

Fisamo to NoHereNoMo

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said by NoHereNoMo:

Just one reason why I like 09Dec2012 10Dec2012 better--no ambiguity.

Provided you're speaking English or understand the months in English...
NoHereNoMo
join:2012-12-06

NoHereNoMo

Member

Or any other "latin" language (for almost all of the months). Fortunately, more people in the world either speak or understand (well enough) English (including the months of the year) than any other single language (esp. for those who ever have the need to deal with some language other than their native language(s)). More importantly, though, I do--which is all I actually need to "worry" about. (And I'm not suggesting a new "standard" for the ISO and its minions, so... no worries.)
ConstantineM
join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

ConstantineM

Member

said by NoHereNoMo:

Or any other "latin" language (for almost all of the months). Fortunately, more people in the world either speak or understand (well enough) English (including the months of the year) than any other single language (esp. for those who ever have the need to deal with some language other than their native language(s)). More importantly, though, I do--which is all I actually need to "worry" about. (And I'm not suggesting a new "standard" for the ISO and its minions, so... no worries.)

Whaaat??? Ignorance truly must be a bliss!

Ever heard of China?

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li ··· speakers

Even back in Europe, a couple of European languages don't use Latin months, and some do use Latin months, but write such months in a non-Latin alphabet, like so: . Some others, like Finnish, do use Latin alphabet for writing, but don't use Latin months. Does Joulukuu look familiar to you? So I thought!
NoHereNoMo
join:2012-12-06

NoHereNoMo

Member

Ever hear of every other country in the world? ...English as a second language?

I stand by what I said. (And you should check some more sources.)
ConstantineM
join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

ConstantineM

Member

said by NoHereNoMo:

Ever hear of every other country in the world? ...English as a second language?

I stand by what I said. (And you should check some more sources.)

What a bunch of nonsense. Ever heard of every other other country in the world? French as a second language? Well, just because you didn't, doesn't make it not so. :-p Chinese is a popular second language, too, I hear; and it'll only be more so as time goes on.
nickdigger
join:2009-06-13

1 recommendation

nickdigger to wideglide36

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Just thinking out loud here.

If Google Voice does eventually turn into a paid service and offers competitive rates and 911 service, plus maybe a few other goodies, why would someone want to pay to port out?

Because many people realize Google is taking "payment" for GV service, by sucking any bit of data possible from its users' phone habits, whether just To/From/Date/Time call logs, or even transcribing actual conversations behind the scenes (who'd put it past them?) -- all to be aggregated into its Matrix.

This is a trade-off many are willing to accept. To charge actual money for their service, in addition to the data-suck, would be too much, and send users to regular VOSPs who earn an honest living by providing a no-strings telephony service.

As for GV's awesome unique SMS service, every time i tried to use it to enter a contest or get a free sandwich coupon, it got rejected, presumably because GV isn't recognized as a regular-ass, spammable cellphone provider. If people are migrating to smartphones with data plans, they might as well just use regular email anyway.
PX Eliezer704
Premium Member
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River

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Chinese is a popular language because both the nation and the economy of China are so large.

But it is not useful as a lingua franca.

That is where English really shines.

If scientists from Kiev, Warsaw, Tokyo, Berlin, Paris, and Buenos Aires, are meeting in Shanghai, they're going to converse in English. You know that.
ConstantineM
join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

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said by nickdigger:

As for GV's awesome unique SMS service, every time i tried to use it to enter a contest or get a free sandwich coupon, it got rejected, presumably because GV isn't recognized as a regular-ass, spammable cellphone provider. If people are migrating to smartphones with data plans, they might as well just use regular email anyway.

It's likely that those contests are not free, and you'd have to pay an extra cost, in addition to the regular cost of sending an SMS to such a number, hence why it wouldn't and shouldn't work with GV.

But, it does seem to be true that using Google Voice when you're asked for an SMS number might seem problematic or impossible; IIRC, Amazon.com let's you get SMS alerts for deliveries, but you have to select which provider you have, and there's no GV option last I checked.

I use Google Voice SMS as an alternative to regular SMS to message local friends; it's faster and easier than email, plus you keep your phone number regardless of the phone; plus it makes your wireless operator truly just a pipe. (I bet postpaid operators hate Google Voice even more so than do the VoIP entrepreneurs at this forum! But, perhaps not, since they don't even seem to bother to be giving out any kind of mnemonic numbers that would be worth keeping after a contract is out.)
ConstantineM

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lingua franca

said by PX Eliezer704:

Chinese is a popular language because both the nation and the economy of China are so large.

But it is not useful as a lingua franca.

That is where English really shines.

If scientists from Kiev, Warsaw, Tokyo, Berlin, Paris, and Buenos Aires, are meeting in Shanghai, they're going to converse in English. You know that.

Scientists? I guess it may depend on what kind; but, yes, they might. But politicians would not be using English should they have such a meeting.

There are lots of other lingua francas in the world; French, German and Russian are just some most common examples; English is not the only lingua franca. I've once tried getting directions in London next to a train/bus station close to a New Year, and noone could understand me, because they were all foreigners and spoke no English; likewise, in many other parts of the world knowing French will get you much further than knowing English, because French is the lingua franca (in many parts of Africa, for example); German is probably the lingua franca only within Europe, but Russian would be from Brighton Beach to Turkey to China, and then Chinese in etc etc... You get the idea.
andre2
join:2005-08-24
Brookline, MA

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Re: [General] Google voice going paid?

said by nickdigger:

Because many people realize Google is taking "payment" for GV service, by sucking any bit of data possible from its users' phone habits, whether just To/From/Date/Time call logs, or even transcribing actual conversations behind the scenes (who'd put it past them?) -- all to be aggregated into its Matrix.

This is a trade-off many are willing to accept. To charge actual money for their service, in addition to the data-suck, would be too much, and send users to regular VOSPs who earn an honest living by providing a no-strings telephony service.

But the US government will be doing the same as Google, regardless of which phone service is being used. And at least Google has to respect its privacy policies (such as they are), since it doesn't have the power to retroactively change laws after getting caught violating them. So why pay for the phone service?
wideglide36
join:2003-11-08
Altoona, PA

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Hey nick,

While I understand your reasoning behind people leaving GV if it turns into a paid service, I would disagree that many would leave, especially if the rates are competitive and all other things being equal, most people wouldn't want the hassle of porting out.

People get comfortable with a service and I think it would take quite a huge change to get people to leave GV.

Privacy and security are not two words most would associate with Google anyways, so I just don't see a mass exodus if Google starts charging a few bucks a month.

As always, just my opinion.....
OZO
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join:2003-01-17

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said by andre2:

So why pay for the phone service?

Good question. If you know that snooping you is their main business, don't pay them...
SCADAGeo
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join:2012-11-08
N California

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said by ConstantineM:

Whaaat??? Ignorance truly must be a bliss!

Ever heard of China?

said by ConstantineM:

What a bunch of nonsense. Ever heard of every other other country in the world? French as a second language? Well, just because you didn't, doesn't make it not so. :-p Chinese is a popular second language, too, I hear; and it'll only be more so as time goes on.

China has been teaching English as a second language since the late 1970's.
said by PX Eliezer704:

If scientists from Kiev, Warsaw, Tokyo, Berlin, Paris, and Buenos Aires, are meeting in Shanghai, they're going to converse in English. You know that.

Absolutely.
said by nickdigger:

Because many people realize Google is taking "payment" for GV service, by sucking any bit of data possible from its users' phone habits

-- all to be aggregated into its Matrix.

This is a trade-off many are willing to accept.

said by wideglide36:

Privacy and security are not two words most would associate with Google anyways, so I just don't see a mass exodus if Google starts charging a few bucks a month.

Talk about good timing: Why Google worries utility companies (Guardian UK).
said by wideglide36:

most people wouldn't want the hassle of porting out.

People get comfortable with a service and I think it would take quite a huge change to get people to leave GV.

A very good summary.
PX Eliezer704
Premium Member
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River

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Re: Canadian cheques...

said by ConstantineM:

So what? No reasonable person would be confused by an ISO date, especially in the US....

Today is a special date, my friend Constantine, even if not in ISO.

As you know, 12/12/12 and we will have to wait 88 years for 01/01/01.

I won't be alive then; you conceivably might be.

So I raise a toast to you.

Arne Bolen
User of Anveo Direct, 3CX and Qubes OS.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-21
Utopia

Arne Bolen

Premium Member

said by PX Eliezer704:

As you know, 12/12/12 and we will have to wait 88 years for 01/01/01.

We need a new ISO standard so we can experience the lucky date 13/13/13.
cell14
join:2012-01-04
Miami Beach, FL

cell14

Member

Since we should use the full year i think that we should wait with the celebration till 11111/11/11. Start stocking up champagne.
NoHereNoMo
join:2012-12-06

NoHereNoMo

Member

That's after the Y10K bug has been fixed, right?