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jaberi

join:2010-08-13

Driver without licence tells judge he has right to travel

A Fort Langley man told a befuddled Provincial Court judge Thursday that he was within his rights as a "self-governing" person to operate his vehicle without a licence when he was stopped at, then fled from, a police roadblock last summer near Cultus Lake.

»www.theprovince.com/news/fraser- ··· EY6LH1vf

jaberi

join:2010-08-13
what will the sentence be....different case with an interesting curve...


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to jaberi
said by jaberi:

A Fort Langley man told a befuddled Provincial Court judge Thursday that he was within his rights as a "self-governing" person to operate his vehicle without a licence when he was stopped at, then fled from, a police roadblock last summer near Cultus Lake.

»www.theprovince.com/news/fraser- ··· EY6LH1vf

Good grief. This again. Case law is fully against him. It is a form of legal fundamentalism.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


freeeman

@videotron.ca
reply to jaberi
said by jaberi:

A Fort Langley man told a befuddled Provincial Court judge Thursday that he was within his rights as a "self-governing" person

Ah, one of those. He will get the book thrown at him.

MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
reply to jaberi
said by jaberi:

"self-governing" person

aka freeloader.


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
reply to jaberi
Here's the thing though, why does it take over a month to hand down a decision on this? Is this perhaps a problem with our justice system.

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:6
said by A Lurker:

Here's the thing though, why does it take over a month to hand down a decision on this? Is this perhaps a problem with our justice system.

The judge is trying to make it appeal-proof, so he's taking his time writing it.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to A Lurker
said by A Lurker:

Here's the thing though, why does it take over a month to hand down a decision on this? Is this perhaps a problem with our justice system.

Because the legal system is starting to cope with these people. We had a trial here that lasted over a year so that the person raising the objections could have their arguments properly rebutted. It's a huge waste of resources for the legal system, founded on a fallacy.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium
join:2005-01-20
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico

1 recommendation

reply to jaberi
Nothing interesting about the case at all, he is an idiot, he can travel freely on his feet.

No man is an island, however if this guy wants to be one I have no issue of dropping him off in the middle of the Atlantic, he can self-govern his affairs from there.


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to jaberi
He has a right to travel by his own two feet as along as doing so does not infringe on the rights of others. e.g. trespassing. There is no right to drive a vehicle, and none is conferred by doing so.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.


Hydraglass
Premium
join:2002-05-08
Kingston, ON

1 recommendation

said by digitalfutur:

He has a right to travel by his own two feet as along as doing so does not infringe on the rights of others. e.g. trespassing. There is no right to drive a vehicle, and none is conferred by doing so.

Actually he has every right in the world to drive an uninsured motor vehicle. Oh - but on private property only. So if he and 100 of his neighbours could put a contiguous set of roads through their properties, maintain it themselves, and not allow the public on that road without invitation, they could all drive on it without licenses, registrations, insurance, etc... but as soon as they want to use the roads created and maintained by our public system, then he has to follow the rules of that public system.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to jaberi
"Rights" can only arise or be bestowed by a government, institution or some sort of collective.

As he is a "Free Man" and rejects these entities and thus he is in a contradictory position.

He does however have the ability to conduct himself as a "Free Man" and do as he, or his followers, pleases as long as they have more military power than than those around them.


BGB
Wants moar interwebz
Premium
join:2009-07-09
Waterloo, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to jaberi
said by jaberi:

A Fort Langley man told a befuddled Provincial Court judge Thursday that he was within his rights as a "self-governing" person to operate his vehicle without a licence when he was stopped at, then fled from, a police roadblock last summer near Cultus Lake.

I wonder if this "Self-Governing" person is going to get a visit from the CRA after the judge is done with him...


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur:

He has a right to travel by his own two feet as along as doing so does not infringe on the rights of others. e.g. trespassing. There is no right to drive a vehicle, and none is conferred by doing so.

Well, one could argue that he has a legal right to operate a motor vehicle on his own property without requiring a license or permit, but beyond that once you enter a public roadway the government has every legal right to regulate their usage.

Edit - Hydraglass got to it first.


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to Thane_Bitter
Well then, remove his Canadian Citizenship and drop him off in the middle of the Pacific and he can be a free man all he wants and exercise his right to tread water for as long as he wants. Think of it as deportation for the 'free man'.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by Link Logger:

Think of it as deportation for the 'free man'.

The legal requirements to adhere to deportation protocol is not required as he does not recognize the government.

They just scoop him up and drop him off a ship in international waters.


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
said by peterboro:

said by Link Logger:

Think of it as deportation for the 'free man'.

The legal requirements to adhere to deportation protocol is not required as he does not recognize the government.

They just scoop him up and drop him off a ship in international waters.

As my friend Homer Simpson says...

"Ah, International Waters, the land that laws forgot...."


Markie
INTJ

join:2009-07-11
Canada
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

"Rights" can only arise or be bestowed by a government, institution or some sort of collective.

My rights are recognized by Government, not bestowed. Some things are inalienable, no matter how much it flummoxes the statists, sheep and REAL freeloaders.

And DKS, that link on legal fundamentalism is such horrid fear mongering I wonder if you even bothered to read it. What a crock of shit.

My only issue with this guy is he ran, had he possessed real principals (like liberty) he would have stood his ground and stayed free in mind and soul regardless of the consequences.
--
»libertarian.on.ca/


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by Markie:

And DKS, that link on legal fundamentalism is such horrid fear mongering I wonder if you even bothered to read it. What a crock of shit.

Right. Case citations. A crock. Dream on.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Shaman

@videotron.ca
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

but beyond that once you enter a public roadway the government has every legal right to regulate their usage.

I think his argument is that he never entered into a contract with the gov to be regulated anywhere. if the gov wants to regulate him, he is open to maybe signing a contract and receiving compensation or some other ridiculous thing.

There are enough of these cult people on this very forum, try searching for previous topics with them in it explaining contract law


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by Shaman :

I think his argument is that he never entered into a contract with the gov to be regulated anywhere. if the gov wants to regulate him, he is open to maybe signing a contract and receiving compensation or some other ridiculous thing.

They don't need to enter a contract with the government because the constitution gives each province the right to regulate both property and public highways. In other words, this is just another case of a moron in desperate need of a civics lesson.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
said by Gone:

In other words, this is just another case of a moron in desperate need of a civics lesson.

We have these folks---probably lots more of them---in the states. They call themselves "sovereign individuals" or some such and say that they are subject to no state or federal laws.

Some of them only will recognize one authority---a county sheriff.

This is closely tied with the militia movement, and so forth.

They have all sorts of crazy ideas.

One group says that the US Government is a foreign corporation (foreign meaning that it is not part of any of the states of the US) and that it has NO authority except over Washington DC and military bases.

A lot of these same people use all SORTS of convoluted language to say that they are exempt from the income tax laws, and so forth. There have even been (for example) NY City police officers involved in these schemes....


Markie
INTJ

join:2009-07-11
Canada
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

said by Markie:

And DKS, that link on legal fundamentalism is such horrid fear mongering I wonder if you even bothered to read it. What a crock of shit.

Right. Case citations. A crock. Dream on.

Uh huh, about as unbiased as cherry picking the worst cases of Priests diddling little kids and presenting it as representative of the whole.
--
»libertarian.on.ca/


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

said by jaberi:

A Fort Langley man told a befuddled Provincial Court judge Thursday that he was within his rights as a "self-governing" person to operate his vehicle without a licence when he was stopped at, then fled from, a police roadblock last summer near Cultus Lake.

»www.theprovince.com/news/fraser- ··· EY6LH1vf

Good grief. This again. Case law is fully against him. It is a form of legal fundamentalism.

Selling an anarchist philosophy to a sitting judge is a no go sales attempt. The moron deserves whatever happens to him.
--
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.


Shaman

@videotron.ca
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by Shaman :

I think his argument is that he never entered into a contract with the gov to be regulated anywhere. if the gov wants to regulate him, he is open to maybe signing a contract and receiving compensation or some other ridiculous thing.

They don't need to enter a contract with the government because the constitution gives each province the right to regulate both property and public highways. In other words, this is just another case of a moron in desperate need of a civics lesson.

The thing is, a lot of vulnerable people fall for this. That is, people with financial difficulties and vulnerable to be preyed upon by these ideologies.

If you search the Bell forum & Teksavvy forum you may come across a few of the topics where the mods let them speak their mind and their "freeman belief".

Try searching both forums for freeman, and maritime law, and shaman, and sovereign citizen.

Geist got hit by them as well. You can see one here in this topic of his: »www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view ··· 710/125/
Look for the nick "Maverik".

You can see how a financially troubled person can fall for this cult. Youtube has a decent series from 20/20 or maybe W5 (something like that) on them as well. The American equiv is designated a terrorist group in the states (or an off-shoot of them are). But then again, anything to do w/ not shelling out money labels you a terrorist in the states.. so take that for what it's worth So over the past few years they have been spreading here.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by Shaman :

The thing is, a lot of vulnerable people fall for this. That is, people with financial difficulties and vulnerable to be preyed upon by these ideologies.

yup. Preyed on by fraudsters. And they waste precious court time.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


shaman

@videotron.ca
said by DKS:

said by Shaman :

The thing is, a lot of vulnerable people fall for this. That is, people with financial difficulties and vulnerable to be preyed upon by these ideologies.

yup. Preyed on by fraudsters. And they waste precious court time.

Well I don't care about the courts time (or my taxes going to this, beats a trillion dollar jet with one engine that can't fly in our North). It's all just ridiculous.

But, I see it as a charter challenge.

I don't agree with it, but the charter allows it and also the charter is derived (as stated within the charter) by the "principles of god". For what it's worth...

I would also like to not have to pay for car insurance, drivers lic, and reg.

I wouldn't mind it one bit.

Charter challenge. *If* it ever gets to that one day with these people and their twisted "belief".


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
A Charter challenge on what grounds, exactly?

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:6
reply to jaberi
Let the guy travel freely, but not on roads built with tax dollars. Let him drink water, but not from water systems built with tax dollars. If he gets sick or injured, let him pay the doctor for his services.

He wants all the benefits of our society but doesn't want to live within the rules.

Crackpot.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by HeadSpinning:

Let the guy travel freely, but not on roads built with tax dollars. Let him drink water, but not from water systems built with tax dollars. If he gets sick or injured, let him pay the doctor for his services. He wants all the benefits of our society but doesn't want to live within the rules. Crackpot.

I don't think that's an appropriate response. If you live within the geographic boundary's of a country you recognize the collective rights and responsibilities of the majority or you get the fock out.

Same goes for those who move here.