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Critsmcgee
join:2011-12-02

1 edit

Critsmcgee to Jack_in_VA

Member

to Jack_in_VA

Re: Liquid Cooled LED Bulbs

said by Jack_in_VA:

I'm paying $115/mo budget plan right now. Paying almost
1/2 of my current electric bill for a light bulb doesn't make any sense at all.

WTH are you talking about 1/2 your bill for a bulb? You are fixated on $50 but that's a mythical price just like your stance. Just leave it alone or say it's not for you but don't make up some mythical excuse. Your dead set against it and that's all you need to say. The truth will set you free!

I checked the Gloucester, VA Home Depot for you on that.
said by Jack_in_VA:

If saving money was really an issue everyone would be buying the "Smart Car" instead of their preferred vehicles. or I could buy 2 Chevrolet Cruz (one for me and one for the wife) for what a Chevrolet Volt costs.

Cars and light bulbs are different subjects completely.

SparkChaser
Premium Member
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA

SparkChaser

Premium Member

I rarely agree with Jack but the price of a 75W Phillips is $40 @ Gloucester, VA Home Depot. That's a third of Jack's bill which to me proves his point for him. Not everyone, we all have different circumstances.


Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by SparkChaser:

I rarely agree with Jack but the price of a 75W Phillips is $40 @ Gloucester, VA Home Depot. That's a third of Jack's bill which to me proves his point for him. Not everyone, we all have different circumstances.

Thank you Spark. The lengths that some will go to justify the unjustifiable in some cases is amazing.

Most of my lighting 90 percent is CFL that I've had very good luck with. I bought a bunch of them when Dominion Power gave rebates at Home Depot several years ago. Only had 2 failures and they were in table lamps base down. I have some in enclosed ceiling fixtures that are doing fine.
Critsmcgee
join:2011-12-02

Critsmcgee to SparkChaser

Member

to SparkChaser
said by SparkChaser:

I rarely agree with Jack but the price of a 75W Phillips is $40 @ Gloucester, VA Home Depot. That's a third of Jack's bill which to me proves his point for him. Not everyone, we all have different circumstances.

The reply was talking about a 60 watt that's $24.97 @ Gloucester, VA Home Depot. It's not a good option for him but a FAR FAR FAR cry from wolf that he's calling. He just needs to play in reality and people won't have to call him out.
Expand your moderator at work

Raphion
join:2000-10-14
Samsara

2 recommendations

Raphion to Lurch77

Member

to Lurch77

Re: Liquid Cooled LED Bulbs

I find it slightly amusing how debates about lighting tech or hot water temperature around here become as heated as any political or religious debate could be expected to be.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by Raphion:

I find it slightly amusing how debates about lighting tech or hot water temperature around here become as heated as any political or religious debate could be expected to be.

How very true Raphion.

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

Lurch77 to Raphion

Premium Member

to Raphion
Once the threads get stupid like this, they generally become useless. Time to bow out.

grobinette
Southeast of disorder
MVM,
join:2001-01-27
22152-1106

grobinette to Raphion

MVM,

to Raphion
You may find it slightly amusing. Sometimes I do but most times I find it annoying.

Anyway, sorry that this became stupid and useless Lurch. I found the reading on the first page interesting.

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

1 recommendation

Lurch77

Premium Member

No need to apologize. Arguments are bound to happen when you have a forum full of experts.

Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC

3 edits

Draiman to Lurch77

Member

to Lurch77
Make note the math I posted with a 60 watt comparison was meant to be good for some and bad for others. If I had posted a 40 watt comparison it would be 75-85% in favor of the LED not just 50/50 like the 60 watt. The 40 watt has hit a price point almost everywhere that it wins hands down. In another 8-12 months I'd suspect the 60 watt will crest that point as well. Most people won't start accepting the LED until the 100 watt has hit that point as well.

If you watch for sales you can pick up the 40 watt LED bulbs for around $2 each. I picked up 20 at $1.99 each this year. At this price point nothing can beat an LED period.
"10 10 874340000019 A19 8.6-Watt (40W) LED Light Bulb $1.99 In-Store Pickup/Store #xxxx $19.90"

A place to pick up pretty cheap LED's is from Pharox. That same 60 watt LED from Philips I posted that is $24.97 for others has an alternative for $15.95 from Pharox. The only downside is they can't keep up with demand so are out of stock a lot and you have to sign up to find out when they are in stock. A small price to pay to save though. Their 20 watt LED starts at $4.95.
»www.mypharox.com/store/p ··· blu.html

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

I agree the 100 watt will have to come down to around that price but then as nunya said the "cheap Chinese junk" factor will have to be evident.

I don't have any 40 watt bulbs and the only 60 watt are in the bar above our bathroom sink so incandescent and CFL will have to provide my lighting needs. Actually I have no problem with lighting or failures of the incandescent and CFL's.

Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC

Draiman to Lurch77

Member

to Lurch77
Unfortunetly people have bigger fish to fry with the "cheap Chinese junk" factor then light bulbs. That stuff is in EVERYTHING we do so no one can really single that out.

For me we have zero lights greater then 90 watts in the entire place. Those 90 watts are floods outside and 75 watt is the largest in active use with 60 watt being the most common. I just see no need to live in a hospital. Again like I said that's another factor that comes into play among MANY MANY factors. People have only touched on a fraction of the factors in this thread.

printscreen
join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR

printscreen to Lurch77

Member

to Lurch77
I think that LED lights need to break free of the standard incandescent bulb base and manufascturers should develop a new standard for light fixtures using LED lights. The standard screw base (called Edison something) works perfectly fine for what it was intended - incandescent bulbs - because no control circuit is needed. We are trying to fit a square into a circle with current offerings.

Just like there is a standard (or many similar ones) for regular fluorescent lights where you can purchase a fluorescent light fixture that comes with a ballast and you just buy the right type of tube, there should be some sort of standard where the control and/or ballast is in the fixture and not in the light bulb itself and then use cheaper lights that only have the LED part and any needed simple cooling system.

The standard base also works fine for CFL because they work at high AC voltage and don't need expensive electronics to operate. LED lights work at low DC voltage and require electronics to operate on standard AC power. Put better and more durable electronics in the light fixture and then put the LEDs themselves in easily replaceable parts that don't (and shouldn't) need to be the standard screw base. Then the problem with orientation or position of the lights can be more easily solved.

Of course, this would require replacement of any standard light fixture with the new type but all new builds would implement them and after a number of years they would replace all incandescent fixtures in stores and suppliers.

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

said by printscreen:

I think that LED lights need to break free of the standard incandescent bulb base and manufascturers should develop a new standard for light fixtures using LED lights.

I was thinking the same.

All I can find are those strips of LEDs that come with a DC adapter, but those are just for "mood" lighting and I'm dubious about the maintenance factor.

But again, the same can be said about CFL, or more specifically, fluorescent lighting. Go with dedicated ballasts and you'll have better color choices and dimming capacity. Of course those don't apply for night stand lamps and outdoor lighting.

BronsCon
join:2003-10-24
Fairfield, CA

BronsCon to Lurch77

Member

to Lurch77
That's great for bulbs that mount upright like that, but since it cools via convection, an inverted mount (think ceiling cans) would mean the heated silicone would stay by the hot LEDs, providing no benefit whatsoever, while a horizontal mount (think ceiling mounted fixtures) would lead to the LEDs on the lower section of the bulb being cooled, while the LEDs on the upper part of the bulb would take on the excess heat produced by those lower LEDs.

If your lighting is comprised exclusively of lamps where the bulbs mount upright, as pictured in the OP, then these are great, I suppose. Otherwise, they're actually designed to overheat themselves. Keep in mind that an inverted or horizontal mount would be losing the benefit of direct air contact, which is where cooling comes from in those installations.

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

I raised that issue a page or two back.
Someone said that the heat source is in the center (where you see the LEDs themselves). So it doesn't matter if it's upside down, the convection effect will occur, just less effectively than if the heat source was at the bottom of the bulb and the bulb was upright.
ncbill
Premium Member
join:2007-01-23
Winston Salem, NC

ncbill to alkizmo

Premium Member

to alkizmo
Here's what one can do with non-Edison base LEDs:

»www.candlepowerforums.co ··· project!
said by alkizmo:

said by printscreen:

I think that LED lights need to break free of the standard incandescent bulb base and manufascturers should develop a new standard for light fixtures using LED lights.

I was thinking the same.

All I can find are those strips of LEDs that come with a DC adapter, but those are just for "mood" lighting and I'm dubious about the maintenance factor.

But again, the same can be said about CFL, or more specifically, fluorescent lighting. Go with dedicated ballasts and you'll have better color choices and dimming capacity. Of course those don't apply for night stand lamps and outdoor lighting.


BronsCon
join:2003-10-24
Fairfield, CA

BronsCon to alkizmo

Member

to alkizmo
Upon first appearances, I thought what I was seeing was a reflection off the glass globe of the bulb. Looking a bit more closely, I do see what you are saying. These bulbs should be fine for inverted mounts.

However, there's still the issue of convection carrying the heat from the lower LEDs up to the upper LEDs in horizontal mount installations. Depending on how the driver circuit is designed, this may also be a non-issue, as the LEDs at the top of the bulb in such an installation aren't really projecting much useful light, so they may not be missed if they burn out. If the driver circuit is designed such that each LED is independent of the others, the net result of such a failure would simply be less electricity used, less heat generated, and less light being "wasted"; if one LED going out ends up taking the entire bulb with it, then this is a fatal flaw for perhaps the most common installation of the incandescent bulbs these are intended to replace.

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD

sk1939 to ncbill

Premium Member

to ncbill
Not bad for a do it yourself-er, but quite challenging for the average user. The change/challenge is the reason I foresee lights sticking to the Edison base for the foreseeable future.

printscreen
join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR

printscreen

Member

That was obviously a custom-built system. However there is nothing to prevent the development and adoption of a system similar to flourescent lights (not CFL) which has been in use for many decades now and is in wide use.
public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA

public to alphapointe

Member

to alphapointe
said by alphapointe:

Only if you overdrive the hell out of them, which most mfgrs seem to do...

You can't be serious. A 20W LED will produce about 12W of heat in an area 0.1in x 0.1in.
public

public to tschmidt

Member

to tschmidt
said by tschmidt:

The LED control circuit is basically a switching power supply. It is pretty efficient. My guess is most of the circuity is located on the back of the multi-LED substrate. The bulk of wasted power is the LEDs themselves, not the control circuit.

LED die material in not compatible with silicon integration. The driver in consumer grade bulbs is a discrete component pcb in the base.
LEDs are about 40% efficient, and heat must be removed from very small volume.
A light weight cooling can either use heat pipes, or ultrasonic spray cooling to transport heat to the heatsink,
Liquid immersion is rather crude.