dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
12
share rss forum feed

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to PX Eliezer70

Re: [General] Google voice going paid?

Where'd you get the quote that ISO8601 format was not used anywhere prior to being invented by the ISO?

Today's date in Japanese is 20121209, and other asian languages likewise prefer Year-Month-Day notation, the only notation that makes sense and which is computer-friendly. ISO8601 is hardly a nuisance to anyone.

And if you think that people should be free to use whichever notation they feel like, go to Canada: today's date there can be expressed as 2012-12-09, 09/12/2012 and 12/09/2012. Canadians, eh? :-) Ever seen a couple of Canadian cheques from different Canadian banks? :-) I'm not even kidding: all three date formats are entirely valid! Check it out: »www.cdnpay.ca/imis15/eng/faqs/ch···te_Field

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
said by ConstantineM:

And if you think that people should be free to use whichever notation they feel like, go to Canada: today's date there can be expressed as 2012-12-09, 09/12/2012 and 12/09/2012. Canadians, eh? :-) Ever seen a couple of Canadian cheques from different Canadian banks? :-) I'm not even kidding: all three date formats are entirely valid! Check it out: »www.cdnpay.ca/imis15/eng/faqs/ch···te_Field

Wow! How those guys (who wrote the spec) are going to recognize what does '12092012' mean? Is it December 09 or it's September 12. Or may be it's even December 20, 1209? (not very probable, but theoretically possible) That's why I've mentioned the importance of the delimiters. 12/09/2012 means December 09, while 12.09.2012 means September 12. And that's why ISO uses '-' as its distinguished delimiter too.

Thanks god they don't yet offer to use ':' as a delimiter or we'll have to guess if it's a time or date...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


NotTheMama
What Would Earl Do?

join:2012-12-06

1 edit
Just one reason why I like 09Dec2012 10Dec2012 better--no ambiguity.

Edit: 12/12/12 -- that is all.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to ConstantineM
said by ConstantineM:

Where'd you get the quote that ISO8601 format was not used anywhere prior to being invented by the ISO?

»www.uic.edu/depts/accc/software/···dex.html
University of Illinois at Chicago
Academic Computing and Communications Center

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to OZO

Canadian cheques...

They have translucent letters under each field that tells the user what kind of the date format they're supposed to use. And cheques by different banks have different kind of formats, no kidding there! I'm not sure if you can request a specific date format as a user; but I guess you can simply switch banks if you disagree with your bank's selection (or perhaps order custom cheques from an official printer?). :-) That's probably the Canadian way: quietly fix it yourself, instead of going around, complaining and petitioning.


Trev
IP Telephony Addict
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC
kudos:6
said by ConstantineM:

They have translucent letters under each field that tells the user what kind of the date format they're supposed to use. And cheques by different banks have different kind of formats, no kidding there! I'm not sure if you can request a specific date format as a user; but I guess you can simply switch banks if you disagree with your bank's selection (or perhaps order custom cheques from an official printer?). :-) That's probably the Canadian way: quietly fix it yourself, instead of going around, complaining and petitioning.

Some people are rebellious. I oven receive cheques where the date has just been hand written "Dec 10/12" right over top of the date field with no regard to where specific numbers should go

Of course the whole point of the exercise was so computers could read the cheques to parse the amount and date. That's why you see the letters in bold print below the spaces for you to write each digit of the date.
--
Wondering what I do? Find out at »www.digitalcon.ca
Get your Obihai ATA in Canada.

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to ConstantineM
Do they use mm/ss/hh format for time too? Or may be that's mm:ss:hh? That'd be fun...

If seriously, I do as you mentioned - the Canadian way. I switched all my computers to ISO date format as more practical for me. But when I sign a check, I use mm/dd/yy format.. But I still "complain", or rather try to educate people how important delimiters are, because it makes reading less ambiguous for everyone...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
said by OZO:

If seriously, I do as you mentioned - the Canadian way. I switched all my computers to ISO date format as more practical for me. But when I sign a check, I use mm/dd/yy format.. But I still "complain", or rather try to educate people how important delimiters are, because it makes reading less ambiguous for everyone...

Why would you not switch to ISO8601 on American cheques, which have a free-style date notation? I've been using ISO8601 on my American cheques all the time without any issues.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to ConstantineM
said by ConstantineM:

That's probably the Canadian way: quietly fix it yourself, instead of going around, complaining and petitioning.

Imagine that.

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to ConstantineM
Because I'm afraid, that the clerk, who will use it, doesn't know abut ISO or any standards at all...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


Trev
IP Telephony Addict
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC
kudos:6
reply to ConstantineM
Click for full size
Here's some show and tell. A Canadian cheque on top and an American check on the bottom

We have computer cheques too which don't have any of the guides as the computer prints everything aside from the MICR at the bottom.

Also notice that Canadian regulations require there to be no background art where the date, amount, and MICR coding is. This to to aid in their attempts for computer recognition of cheques.

.... now, what were we talking about in this thread again?

Oh yes, VoIP services wholesale vendors who charge fees for payments. Yes, in the example I described a few posts ago ACH is charged the same transaction fee as everything else, thus making the transaction fee BS and a crappy business practice.
--
Wondering what I do? Find out at »www.digitalcon.ca
Get your Obihai ATA in Canada.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to ConstantineM
said by ConstantineM:

Why would you not switch to ISO8601 on American cheques, which have a free-style date notation?

While there are Canadian cheques and American checks, AFAIK there are not any American cheques.

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to OZO
said by OZO:

Because I'm afraid, that the clerk, who will use it, doesn't know abut ISO or any standards at all...

So what? No reasonable person would be confused by an ISO date, especially in the US, where month already precedes the date in the numeric notations, and either way, you can't make a mistake which number is the year when you use 4 digit years.

And I would not buy any arguments that banks could possibly afford to hire complete idiots as staff, so, I don't see any problem with using ISO8601 when drawing a free-form cheque in the US. I never had a problem even in a small town local bank in North Carolina.

Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
Reviews:
·Earthlink Cable ..
·VOIPO
reply to NotTheMama

Re: [General] Google voice going paid?

said by NotTheMama:

Just one reason why I like 09Dec2012 10Dec2012 better--no ambiguity.

Provided you're speaking English or understand the months in English...


NotTheMama
What Would Earl Do?

join:2012-12-06
Or any other "latin" language (for almost all of the months). Fortunately, more people in the world either speak or understand (well enough) English (including the months of the year) than any other single language (esp. for those who ever have the need to deal with some language other than their native language(s)). More importantly, though, I do--which is all I actually need to "worry" about. (And I'm not suggesting a new "standard" for the ISO and its minions, so... no worries.)
--
"...but ya doesn't hasta call me Johnson!"

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
said by NotTheMama:

Or any other "latin" language (for almost all of the months). Fortunately, more people in the world either speak or understand (well enough) English (including the months of the year) than any other single language (esp. for those who ever have the need to deal with some language other than their native language(s)). More importantly, though, I do--which is all I actually need to "worry" about. (And I'm not suggesting a new "standard" for the ISO and its minions, so... no worries.)

Whaaat??? Ignorance truly must be a bliss!

Ever heard of China?

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_la···speakers

Even back in Europe, a couple of European languages don't use Latin months, and some do use Latin months, but write such months in a non-Latin alphabet, like so: . Some others, like Finnish, do use Latin alphabet for writing, but don't use Latin months. Does Joulukuu look familiar to you? So I thought!


NotTheMama
What Would Earl Do?

join:2012-12-06
Ever hear of every other country in the world? ...English as a second language?

I stand by what I said. (And you should check some more sources.)
--
"...but ya doesn't hasta call me Johnson!"

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
said by NotTheMama:

Ever hear of every other country in the world? ...English as a second language?

I stand by what I said. (And you should check some more sources.)

What a bunch of nonsense. Ever heard of every other other country in the world? French as a second language? Well, just because you didn't, doesn't make it not so. :-p Chinese is a popular second language, too, I hear; and it'll only be more so as time goes on.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
Chinese is a popular language because both the nation and the economy of China are so large.

But it is not useful as a lingua franca.

That is where English really shines.

If scientists from Kiev, Warsaw, Tokyo, Berlin, Paris, and Buenos Aires, are meeting in Shanghai, they're going to converse in English. You know that.

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

lingua franca

said by PX Eliezer70:

Chinese is a popular language because both the nation and the economy of China are so large.

But it is not useful as a lingua franca.

That is where English really shines.

If scientists from Kiev, Warsaw, Tokyo, Berlin, Paris, and Buenos Aires, are meeting in Shanghai, they're going to converse in English. You know that.

Scientists? I guess it may depend on what kind; but, yes, they might. But politicians would not be using English should they have such a meeting.

There are lots of other lingua francas in the world; French, German and Russian are just some most common examples; English is not the only lingua franca. I've once tried getting directions in London next to a train/bus station close to a New Year, and noone could understand me, because they were all foreigners and spoke no English; likewise, in many other parts of the world knowing French will get you much further than knowing English, because French is the lingua franca (in many parts of Africa, for example); German is probably the lingua franca only within Europe, but Russian would be from Brighton Beach to Turkey to China, and then Chinese in etc etc... You get the idea.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to ConstantineM

Re: Canadian cheques...

said by ConstantineM:

So what? No reasonable person would be confused by an ISO date, especially in the US....

Today is a special date, my friend Constantine, even if not in ISO.

As you know, 12/12/12 and we will have to wait 88 years for 01/01/01.

I won't be alive then; you conceivably might be.

So I raise a toast to you.


Arne Bolen
Happy Anveo customer
Premium
join:2009-06-21
Cyberspace
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Anveo
·voip.ms
said by PX Eliezer70:

As you know, 12/12/12 and we will have to wait 88 years for 01/01/01.

We need a new ISO standard so we can experience the lucky date 13/13/13.
--
My VoIP News

cell14

join:2012-01-04
Miami Beach, FL
Since we should use the full year i think that we should wait with the celebration till 11111/11/11. Start stocking up champagne.


NotTheMama
What Would Earl Do?

join:2012-12-06
That's after the Y10K bug has been fixed, right?
--
"...but ya doesn't hasta call me Johnson!"