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Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

Fill it with regular or jet fuel?

quote:
Mistaken jet fuel delivery shuts two gasoline stations in Monmouth County

Police shut down two Monmouth County gasoline stations on Friday that each received deliveries of jet fuel.

At least seven customers of the Delta station on Route 36 in Keyport reported damage to their vehicles, police Chief George Casaletto said.

Police in Manasquan, where the Route 71 Lukoil station also received the jet fuel, said Saturday afternoon they hadn't received any damage reports yet.

Casaletto said there are no criminal charges for what he called "a mistaken delivery." The gasoline station will be responsible for any damage, he said.

More - »www.app.com/article/20121208/NJN···2080042/
So what would happen to your car if you put jet fuel in the gas tank?

Dodge
Premium
join:2002-11-27

So what happened to the tankers that were supposed to go to the gas stations? Did they wind up in the airport?


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

1 recommendation

The entire episode lends itself to lots of jokes, like: After filling up, my car drove better then ever, but my commute home was delayed by 3 hours and rerouted via Cleveland!



CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to Bob4

Smoke like crazy and run like crap.... Jet fuel is basically kerosene - a car engine won't run with it...
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

interesting enough though if they had filled the diesel tanks, I bet nobody would notice. I Have heard that diesels can run on Jet Fuel.

But I imagine there would be far more danger here if the other truck went to an airport and someone filled a jet with 93 octane gas.(then again maybe not, a turbine engine will run on pretty much anything that burns.)
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Dodge
Premium
join:2002-11-27
reply to CylonRed

said by CylonRed:

Smoke like crazy .....

MI-6 has to pay a lot of money to equip 007's car with smoke screens, here you get it for free, quit complaining


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4
reply to Kearnstd

said by Kearnstd:

interesting enough though if they had filled the diesel tanks, I bet nobody would notice. I Have heard that diesels can run on Jet Fuel.

It's doubtful anyone would have noticed. We filled diesel engines in military with JP8 (jet fuel) all the time. From Wikipedia:

quote:
Outside of powering aircraft, JP-8 is used as a fuel for heaters, stoves,[1] tanks,[2] by the U.S. military as a replacement for diesel fuel in the engines of nearly all tactical ground vehicles and electrical generators, and as a coolant in engines and some other aircraft components. The use of a single fuel greatly simplifies logistics.

Beezel

join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV
reply to Bob4

There are different class/grades of jet fuel. It depends on which one it was. JP4 is gasoline and kerosene 50/50 mix. Then you have Jet-A which is a highly refined kerosene, Jet-B which is naphtha-kerosene mix, and so on. Diesels would have better results verses gas vehicles with any that didn't have gasoline in them, but performance would vary in the diesels.


itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to Bob4

said by Bob4:

So what would happen to your car if you put jet fuel in the gas tank?

Same thing if you put Kerosene in the tank - Jet Fuel is Kerosene with some additives in it to not gel at low temps and burn a little better. IIRC it just won't run - there are Youtube videos of Briggs and Stratton mowers running on Kerosene so it's possible to get it to work.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to Bob4

Three more stations got the wrong fuel:

quote:
Three Mercer County gas stations pumped aviation fuel instead of regular gas

Three gas stations in Mercer County unwittingly received and pumped aviation gasoline or jet fuel over the weekend, filling some drivers' cars with a product that can damage automobile engines.

The gas was mistakenly delivered over the weekend to several stations around the state, including locations in Trenton and Lawrence, which were subsequently closed for inspection, Mercer County spokeswoman Julie Willmot said.

...

The state Division of Consumer Affairs, which oversees weights and measures issues, was unable to provide any information on the mistaken gas delivery, such as the name of the gasoline supplier, when the fuel was delivered, and whether the substance was aviation gasoline or jet fuel, which are different products.

More - »www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2012···tio.html

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

And two more stations that got aviation fuel - »www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/20···ons.html



aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to Bob4

How exactly a jet fuel can 'damage' a gasoline engine?

I know that gasoline in a diesel can do some bad things, but I haven't seen the opposite.
--
Wacky Races 2012!


PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA

Jet fuel fouls the emission system, and coats the spark plugs with oily deposits.
Sort of like what would occur if you put 2-stroke mix into a car, but worse...



Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
reply to aurgathor

Misfires can damage the cat converter, O2 and Air/Fuel ratio sensors can be contaminated.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.


Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to Bob4

I wonder what would happen if a gas station got true AvGas, that 100+ octane gasoline used in something like a cessna as I know those are piston engines with spark plugs so guessing they just use very high octane gasoline.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:2
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel

said by Kearnstd:

I wonder what would happen if a gas station got true AvGas, that 100+ octane gasoline used in something like a cessna as I know those are piston engines with spark plugs so guessing they just use very high octane gasoline.

Premature failure of emissions components (catalytic converter and associated sensors), since aviation gasoline contains lead, which isn't good at all for the cat.

That's about it. There would be no perceivable difference in the vehicle's performance.


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to Kearnstd

said by Kearnstd:

I wonder what would happen if a gas station got true AvGas, that 100+ octane gasoline used in something like a cessna as I know those are piston engines with spark plugs so guessing they just use very high octane gasoline.

Realistically nothing besides maybe shortening the life of the emission systems.
High octane fuel only has better resistance to self-detonation by compression. It does not provide more power or better gas mileage, contrary to the popular belief. However high compression engines *require* high octane gas, as regular gas may detonate prematurely.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to Bob4

quote:
State confirms six N.J. gas stations distributed aviation fuel

NEWARK -- Six gas stations in the state received aviation fuel by mistake and sold it to motorists before the stations were shut down, the state’s Division of Consumer Affairs announced Wednesday.

Gas stations in Keyport, North Plainfield, Trenton, Manasquan, Scotch Plains and Lawrenceville received 104.7-octane fuel, compared to the 93-octane fuel, which is used in super unleaded gasoline, according to a news release. Approximately eight tankers delivered the aviation fuel between Dec. 5 and Dec. 7.

Pasmel Property, based in Freehold, owned all six stations and the only affected fuel was super-unleaded, according to the state. The company is removing all gasoline from its tanks at the six locations and cleaning the dispensing systems before Weights and Measures will allow them to reopen.

Aviation fuel is used in propeller-driven aircrafts and is different than jet fuel, according to the state. It does contain a small amount of lead, which is not found in car gasoline, however consumer affairs said they consulted with automotive professionals and it should not cause damage to vehicle engines.

»www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/20···uel.html

Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to Bob4

this might sound like a dumb question.

what benefit does lead have in gas? as someone born in 1980 I have only known unleaded fuel, All i know is it was something to do with high compression engines needed lead.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports



Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

It was mostly used as an octane booster. It also protected the valve seats on older cars. It was phased out because it was a pollutant. In today's cars, it would plug up the catalytic converter rather quickly.


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

Actually, it was phased out because cars started coming with catalytic converters. For a time, you could buy either leaded or unleaded gas. Cars with catalytic converters had narrower fuel filler openings (and pumps had narrower nozzles) so you couldn't put leaded gas into a car with a catalytic converter.



Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

It won't work with a catalytic converter, as I mentioned. But the cat was not the direct reason it was phased out. The cat was just another part of the Clean Air Act. Pollution and poisoning concerns were the reason.

quote:
Landrigan and his studies played a key role in the government mandate phasing out lead components from gasoline, beginning in 1975, and the federal ban on lead paint in 1978 – culminating in an 88% drop in lead levels in American children by 2005.[10][11]
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_J._···gan#Lead

Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to Bob4

I remember hearing mentions that when leaded gas was still in use in Japan, children that grew up near some intersection in Tokyo had far higher chances of lead poisoning just from the air.

Naturally looking backwards, I want to ask "What idiot thought mixing a heavy metal into gasoline and then burning it was a bright idea?" But I have to remember when they came up with leaded gas they likely had no clue of the implications
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to Lurch77

Except then they would have simply banned leaded gas and, one day, only unleaded would have been available.

But there was a period of a few years where you could buy either. You had to ask, "fill it up, unleaded". And the only reason anyone ever bought unleaded was because their car had a catalytic converter.


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to Kearnstd

said by Kearnstd:

Naturally looking backwards, I want to ask "What idiot thought mixing a heavy metal into gasoline and then burning it was a bright idea?"

Hey, we walked around behind lawnmowers burning leaded gas for hours, and we all survived.


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4
reply to Bob4

said by Bob4:

Except then they would have simply banned leaded gas and, one day, only unleaded would have been available.

That isn't how it works. Just like refrigerants, they phase them out. They don't just stop them. The economy and industry cannot handle cold turkey.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

I was alive and buying gas in 1975, so I know what happened.

quote:
1972 — Feb 22 — EPA announces that all gasoline stations will be required to carry “non-leaded” gasoline in the future to protect catalytic converters (which reduce other auto exhausts such as carbon monoxide). EPA asked the Dept. of Health Education and Welfare (HEW) “to provide a health basis for the planned reduction…” But HEW “informed EPA that they could not support the reduciton of lead in gasoline for reasons of adverse health effects since no medical or scientific data were available to indicate that it was a hazard to health.” EPA delays setting standards until 1973, then is sued by Ethyl Corp.

1974 — May 7 – 8 — Hearings before the Panel on Environmental Science and Technology of the Subcommittee on Environmental Pollution of the Committee on Public Works. Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del) calls for “a panel of medical scientists having expertise in the field” to perform a literature review, but concludes: “In my opinion, lead from auto emissions does not constitute a public health hazard.”

»66.147.244.135/~enviror4/about/e···imeline/
Note that unleaded gasoline was banned (to protect catalytic converters) before it was proven that lead in auto emissions was bad.


dandeman
Premium,MVM
join:2001-12-05
Chapel Hill, NC
Reviews:
·AT&T Southeast
reply to Bob4

said by Bob4 See Profile
Hey, we walked around behind lawnmowers burning leaded gas for hours, and we all survived.[/BQUOTE :

Naw you didn't.. Those affected by it are not aware of the symptoms!

In jest!


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

I remember my high school physics teacher (Henry Fischer) saying that using leaded gasoline in a lawn mower was bad, and thinking, "I use leaded gasoline all the time, it seems OK to me".



boogi man

join:2001-11-13
Jacksonville, FL
kudos:1
reply to Bob4

as i understand it the lead also worked to help as lubricant for valve seats. the solution for the unleaded fuel was/is hardened valve seats. i remember in yesteryear when looking for heads to work on for my sbc i wanted to have '73+ or if i got older ones i just knew i was going to have them machined for hardened seats.
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