Technical > Home Improvement > Hauge water treatment (filtration, r osmosis and softening)

reply to Jack_in_VA

Re: Hauge water treatment (filtration, r osmosis and softening)

reply to Jack_in_VA
Jack , I am not too sure that link is actually from what everyone thinks of as Consumer Reports . If you go to the real website , the only tests or ratings seem to be for water filters .
»www.consumerreports.org/cro/wate···uide.htm

Reading the site you posted , and following some of the links on that site , I would strongly recommend double checking everything posted on it .

reply to cypherstream
Some really good responses here. Makes me feel much better that I didn't go through with it.

Sounded and looked like a good product, but even after his "deal of a lifetime" at $4000, that's not something I can just make a decision on right then and there!

He kept saying to stop looking at it as a monthly payment. He said all the money I spend on cleaning products is just redirected to this system. After 5 years when that is paid off, I'm still saving money on cleaning products and maintenance. Whereas without the system I am spending lots of money on cleaning products and maintenance for LIFE (he kept stressing LIFE!!!). I said well what if I move? He said they will come out and move the system for me.

It made it somewhat plausible, but I regret we all took up so much of each others time.

Why couldn't he ever offer "such a deal!" in the future? Because he said his manager has to pay him for miles and time to travel and he's not going to send him out again.

To be honest, there was another company a year or two ago that did door to door sales for windows and siding. Same thing where if you sign that night you get some "huge" discount. These guys really put the pressure on you.

This is the system Hauge WaterMax:
»www.haguewater.com/water-softeners/

What I need is something that doesn't take a lot of space. My space is very limited if I want to conceal the system in my furnace closet. Or else its going to have to be outside of that closet in the laundry room and I'd rather have it concealed.

reply to cypherstream
nm

reply to cypherstream
I read their pitch on their website. Hauge indicates that the system makes efficient use of salt which means it is an Ion Exchange Softener. Unless you use more costly potassium chloride anyone drinking water from this softener might be exposed to excessive salt ingestion.

reply to Mr Matt
I guess thats why they want to cross sell the Reverse Osmosis system.

reply to Mr Matt

quote:

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Question

Water softeners: How much sodium do they add?

I'm on a low-sodium diet and paying attention to my sodium intake. How much sodium does a water softener add to tap water?

Answer

from Sheldon G. Sheps, M.D.

Regular tap water contains very little sodium. The amount of sodium a water softener adds to tap water depends on the "hardness" of the water. Hard water contains large amounts of calcium and magnesium. Some water-softening systems remove calcium and magnesium ions and replace them with sodium ions. The higher the concentration of calcium and magnesium, the more sodium needed to soften the water. Even so, the added sodium doesn't add up to much.

An 8-ounce (237-milliliter) glass of softened water generally contains less than 12.5 milligrams of sodium, which is well within the Food and Drug Administration's definition of "very low sodium." The majority of sodium in the average diet comes from table salt and processed foods. Thus, the best way to decrease the sodium in your diet is by cutting back on table salt and processed foods.

If you're on a diet that calls for very little sodium and you're concerned about the amount of sodium in your softened water, talk with your doctor. He or she may suggest testing the sodium concentration of your water or switching to a type of water-purification system that doesn't replace magnesium and calcium with sodium. Another option is to soften only the hot water and use unsoftened cold water for drinking and cooking.

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reply to cypherstream
Go to a pool supply house and get a pool water test kit. They are not expensive. With that you can test the PH, chlorine level and calcium hardness of the water. Not 100% accurate but actually quite close.

The tests the salesperson used were probably not valid tests. For example the test for chlorine involves adding a fixed number of drops of a chemical to defined amount of water and matching the color of the result. Add a lot of the chemical to water and it turns deep purple. Several drop of another chemical will reverse the color. See a pattern here with what the salesperson did?

Newer test kits used pre-soaked pads on a stick. Swirl the stick in the water for a defined time and then match the colors on the pads to the color swatches on the bottle of strips. You will come fairly close.

Doing that I suspect you will find that the salesperson is scamming you with fake science. The only reliable way to confirm your own water quality is by having the water tested yourself. You then know the source of the test and the place testing has no vested interest in the outcome.

reply to cypherstream
Based on your description, I wouldn't call it a scam, in that I think you would have gotten the product described to you. The question is if you were getting a good value (price vs. performance). Regardless, I think his sales techniques are questionable. I also refuse business to someone that wants to give me a "sign right now" pressure.

Also, I think this story of saving so much money on "cleaning products" is fairly ridiculous. Softener and RO systems have their own consumables expenses (like salt and filters). It is true that soap can suds better in softened water, but I doubt many people actually adjust their usage much, unless they are having a problem with cleaning. So, in the end, I doubt you save much in cleaning products, and add the maintenance costs of the system.

The house I have now came with a similar system. There is whole house sediment pre-filter, and a water softener. There is an RO system under our kitchen sink that feeds a special tap at the sink, and the fridge water and ice. The brand is Kinetico, and I think they are a respectable company.

I don't know the cost of the system, but I am sure it wasn't cheap. I would guess in the $2k - $3k range. The softener I have seems unique, in that it does not use any electricity. It uses the flow of water with a gear system to regenerate based on usage. It has two resin tanks, so it just switches to the alternate tank when it needs to regenerate the current one. This way, there is no interruption of softened water, and it can regenerate at any time.

Anyway, you might want to see if they service your area, and possibly get a quote from them. At least you would see how it compares.

reply to cypherstream
We have well water. When we moved in, the current system was having problems so we needed to replace. There was a Hague store in the nearby shopping center so we just went with them (still flush with a bit of leftover mortgage cash).

The system works fine and, in itself, is not loud. Our well pump/tank, however, is getting louder each year. Surely will need replacing soon (dammit).

It's a salt system and we mostly use Sodium Chloride, but flip to Potassium Chloride (KCl) on occasion just to change it up, though KCl is more $$.
Concerned on our move in and research at the time, the only issue with salt systems is if you have fish tanks and use house water - not good for freshwater fish!

We do not have an Osmosis system, no need. In fact, when the salt in the system runs out and I've forgotten to refill it...I can't even tell by tap water taste or showers...but my wife can...so that's when I know to buy more salt
Generally, three 10lb bags every month or two.

I think we overpaid for the Hague system, and it gets 'recharged' (the Brine?) once a year (did the Salesman tell you that?)...but it's like $60 or something and I don't mind as they look over the system, can make adjustments, etc.

Yeap, can get cheaper on your own. Do you want to deal with that? Not sure Hague system quality is worth the cost, but maybe the 'they take care of it all' is...

Closing, two things:
-Salesman may say you'll save on all these cleaning products and less soap...ah, maybe, but if you don't have a system now and will need one...if it's ion, you'll have to buy salt...and that's not cheap.

-I hate high-pressure sales and will immediately say 'no' if that's a requirement of the sale. If you want my business, you won't give me a timeline. Your boss won't send you back out when I call you and say I want to buy? Then he's a bad boss. Screw those 'deal now or never' guys. Phooey.
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Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential

reply to cypherstream
My day job is plumbing and mechanical design.

I have to say, I have never designed a system where the whole building cold water was softened.
Coke / Pepsi hate salty water as it changes the flavor of their product.
The reason being is that the salt changes the flavor of the food to which it is added.
For commercial chefs, I will give them sediment filters and "flavor" filters only as required for the prepping of food.
The "salty" water is not good for plants or grasses.

What I DO soften is the HOT WATER to prevent scale build up that would cause premature failure of high value components.
The hot water is softened in order to protect and prolong the life of plumbing equipment including but not limited to shower valves, water heaters (storage and instant), hot water circulation pumps and kitchen dishwashers, kitchen components where hot water is used to cook and/or keep food hot.
Most people don't drink the hot water or water plants with it.
The shower water is blended with raw cold water so that it does not feel weird to guests.

Now your going to remind me of the toilets...no I didn't forget.
Most of the issues with toilets are with excessive amounts of iron, not scale buildup. I may install a iron "filter" to address that specific issue only as needed.

Keep is simple.
Protect the plumbing items that have value or would require expensive repairs.
Undercounter point of use RO systems work well, use/install as needed.

An 8-ounce (237-milliliter) glass of softened water generally contains less than 12.5 milligrams of sodium, which is well within the Food and Drug Administration's definition of "very low sodium."

Not enough to be even mildly concerned about.

reply to averagedude
But softened water can taste better than raw well water. Not only are calcium and magnesium removed, but moderate iron levels are reduced, too. I'd take a slight salt taste over a rust flavor every time.

reply to cypherstream
When we built this house in 1990 I said that we would not put a water softener in as we could get used to the flavor of the well water as it was. Almost a year later I gave up and put a softener in. Cold water can need to be softened.

reply to cypherstream
Any time you get a high pressure pitch like that, it's time to say "Thanks for coming out. We'll let you know if we change our minds." I've had people tell me they couldn't put offers in writing, had to pitch both me and the wife, had to get power of attorney for my wife if she wasn't present, and so on. Sayonara!

I would never depend on a salesperson's verbal assessment of the water. You don't know what reagents they are adding, and they have an incentive to make your water look as bad as possible.

Get a mail order assessment from a lab that isn't selling anything else and does not provide referrals to anybody who sells anything. Once they give you the numbers, you hire somebody to fix your problems or at least get them into an acceptable range.

There are pros who do this ... WQA CWS credential is something I'd require from anybody who came to test my water. They're not necessarily independent but they are bound by a code of ethics:
»www.wqa.org/pdf/CODE_ETHICS_1203.pdf
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