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resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to Gone

Re: Voltage-Hurt Locker Lawsuit Round 2 Against Teksavvy Users

said by Gone:

said by cog_biz_user:

Would it be considered extortion if they mailed letters to the supposed filesharers asking for more than $5k? Sortof like a "pay us $15k now, or we'll see you in court" kind of thing? I wouldn't be surprised if that actually happens.

That's exactly what happens. Those who ignore the letter and let it go to court usually end up better off - if not outright unscathed - than those who freak out and pay.

They've gotten default judgements from people in the US who've done that.. 250k default judgements against them.

If you make a fuss however, they'll file you in a named suit.. :\

Safest for all, is keeping everything anonymous - making sure Voltage doesn't get the sub info.

--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

1 recommendation

There's a difference between a mere letter demanding settlement and an actual statement of claim served to you by hand. One is safe to ignore, the other is not.

You are not going to have a default judgement rendered against you unless you receive a statement of claim first certified by a clerk of the court first.


peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

said by Gone:

You are not going to have a default judgement rendered against you unless you receive a statement of claim first certified by a clerk of the court first.

Depending on the court and rules of procedure the plaintiff will serve you then file an affidavit of service with the court clerk and then it will be accepted by the court.


hm

@videotron.ca

It's not something that should be ignored. Either reply back saying, "see you in court", or reply back with a cheque, or reply back asking for payment methods that would work for you/them.

In the US, Voltage has been adding 1000$ to the amount if you don't reply or don't pay within 3 weeks. heh I can't see that flying here.


peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

1 recommendation

Best to reply back advising you deny liability and intend to pursue a vigorous defence should they proceed to file suit.



El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
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said by peterboro:

Best to reply back advising you deny liability and intend to pursue a vigorous defence should they proceed to file suit.

I'd argue this is the best route as well, by doing so you've shown that you're not the lowest hanging fruit, and the trolls will most likely go away in this case.
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

I agree. A vigorous $2,000,000.00 3 to 5 year court battle through all 3 levels of the judiciary culminating in an appearance before the Supreme Court of Canada and a further 2 year wait for a decision is definitely the way to go.........money is no object. Bring it on Voltage.........



hm

@videotron.ca

said by elitefx:

...money is no object. Bring it on Voltage.........

YAH!
We will crowd source legal strategy and legal filings!

So umm... I only know how to put a stamp on an envelope to say, "see you in court", I'll let others fill in the blanks...


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
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join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
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1 recommendation

said by hm :

I only know how to put a stamp on an envelope to say, "see you in court", I'll let others fill in the blanks...

In most cases I'd argue that will suffice. The point of the letters is to get you to settle not to get you to fight.

"Legal Chicken" if you will...
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5

Correct.

quote:
We will only accept letters properly certified by a court official and handed in person via an officer of the court


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

1 recommendation

said by TwiztedZero:

Correct.

quote:
We will only accept letters properly certified by a court official and handed in person via an officer of the court

That is why I simply said ignore them, because failing to do that they aren't anything more than an unsubstantiated threat.

That, or, provided they are sent using regular lettermail, you "never received any letter regarding this issue."

Their intention is to extort money through voluntary settlements, not take it to court. Their only next step after ignoring that letter is to file in court, something they don't want to do. Still, the suggestions about writing them back and telling them point-blank that you deny all liability and intend to pursue a vigorous defence should they file will achieve the same thing.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

did not RMCP not once say they would not go after pirates? this is not like the US where you can clog up the courts like crazy with BS and have the government spend well into the millions going after people.

What I want to know how can a US company can come into Canada and demand cdns info of any type unless it's a serious crime. Did the company demand the info themselves or hire a company in Canada to do it for them or use their cdn bunch if they got one to request the info?



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

The RCMP would only be involved in criminal copyright prosecution. What we're talking about here is civil infringement, something any rights holder can initiate on their own.

As for a company coming here and doing this? We have copyright law. They have just as much right to appear before a judge to plead their case as you, I or anyone else can under the law...

... now, whether the judge buys an argument it is an entirely different matter all together.



TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3

I see them just taking a few cases to court to prove a point and try to install fear into people.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

1 recommendation

Let them. It'll come back to bite them in the ass. Hard.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to hm

said by hm :

In the US, Voltage has been adding 1000$ to the amount if you don't reply or don't pay within 3 weeks. heh I can't see that flying here.

That probably would be a violation of the Canada Interest Act.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by MaynardKrebs:

That probably would be a violation of the Canada Interest Act.

Depends on how they word it, there's ways they can make something like that work here.


TOPDAWG
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well we all know this is a test. other studios are waiting and seeing how this goes hell they may be helping for all we know. Most will want to slam Canada with law-suits to get a point across.

I don't see the cdn courts putting up with this crap like in the US were while I'm from the US I can say the US government and courts are at big business beck and call.



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

said by MaynardKrebs:

That probably would be a violation of the Canada Interest Act.

Depends on how they word it, there's ways they can make something like that work here.

I dunno how they would word something like that or even justify a cost increase like that after 3 weeks.

From what I saw of the US extortion letters, the price increases over 1000$. More like 1800$ after 3 weeks.

I never took the fuzzy math course. But I did do imaginary numbers and fractals. I think this is what it is.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

Ever looked at a parking ticket?

The ticket is $30 or whatever. Pay it within seven days and it's $10 or whatever. If you don't pay it within that seven day period, it's the $30 the ticket was originally for. They're discounting the fine for early payment, not increasing the fine for not paying it quick enough.

With these extortion letters it's the same deal and all good and legal if they word it as the settlement being $7000, but reduced to $5200 if paid within x period of time. Again, it all comes down to how they word it, and they don't need to justify anything in that regard.

Alas, this is a completely separate issue from the core of this discussion.


nickvca
Premium
join:2011-09-28
reply to hm

I saw this link a few days ago, it was written in the UK for people that had Troll problems over there.
Very interesting document
Had a lot of denial letter templates to respond to settlement demands.

How To “Fight Copyright Trolls”

»www.dropbox.com/s/bc8nr49vq0ukf9···olls.pdf



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to Gone

Never thought of it that way. Then again, I never got a Quebec parking ticket that gave me such a reduction in cost if paid early. You only pay more when the time exceeds "X", but the base ticket cost is never decreased.

So this is an Ontario thing?

Makes me wonder if certain prov's regulate things like this. Quite possibly.

Makes me also wonder why Voltage pulled out of the QC lawsuits.


Dunlop

join:2011-07-13
kudos:2
Reviews:
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reply to nickvca

said by nickvca:

I saw this link a few days ago, it was written in the UK for people that had Troll problems over there.
Very interesting document
Had a lot of denial letter templates to respond to settlement demands.

How To “Fight Copyright Trolls”

»www.dropbox.com/s/bc8nr49vq0ukf9···olls.pdf

nice guide.

This should be sent to the 2300 teksavvy customers should TS give out their informatoion

m3chen

join:2009-12-03
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to nickvca

@nickvca:

Very interesting document; I wonder if any thing like that could be written for a Canadian audience! Here is an tidbit from that pdf I found intriguing:

"The burden of proof remains with the claimant. They must
demonstrate that you either did, or authorised someone else to copy or share the whole or a
substantial part of the copyright work. There has never been a case in the UK where someone
has been found guilty of this type of infringement using solely IP address evidence."

Has there been a case in Canada where someone was found guilty based solely on IP evidence?


funny

join:2010-12-22
reply to random

said by random :

>non commercial file share

That sounds like "I am guilty, but..." plea in court that might get you to the $100 - $5000 (cap) instead of the $10k these sneeze balls are asking for.

did you read what i said
NO ther eis no admission is stating that a platiniff has inccorrectly filed a suit go back spend money on your legal team and try again...
like i said i really dont think that they will if all they can hope for is 5 grand and yet might get a lot lot less like 100$ per person...the legal fees and court filing fees wont cover that....

funny

join:2010-12-22
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

said by rednekcowboy:

I'll tell you how it will turn out, the case will get tossed cause they can't meet their burden of proof.

It won't even get that far. They'll drop the case themselves after they've managed to make a handsome profit on the extortion letters that they'll send out shortly after they get the names...

... and it may not even get that far if the judge adjourned the case despite Voltage's objections. This entire request may be denied. We'll have to wait and see.

CIPPIC Might actually get this quashed because it is quite clear this is not a commercial claim of copyright infringement thus its tossed out and they wont bother if all they are gonna get is 100$ a movie with a max for everything one infringes to 5000 dollars.

and as it then would be under 7 grand you can get legal aid so why not fight....you have zero to lose and everything to gain...
then there is undue hardship on welfare and disability cases where at best you cant get more then 50$ /month and its very very risky to try and game this system....

UNLESS you get everyone's names and addresses and can find out what incomes they have and threaten the more better off ones....and then in a reverse way that is like discrimination....


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

Legal aid is rarely granted for criminal cases unless you have a significant threat of jail time. Knowing this, you can completely and totally forget about it for a civil case, regardless of your income or the amount you're being sued for.


funny

join:2010-12-22
reply to Stan3

said by Stan3:

said by funny:

you don't admit to non commercially filesharing YOU say that the ip address alone cannot prove commercial filesharing and thus giving peoples names and addresses wont make any difference.

But what if I did do it? Wouldn't it be better to just throw myself on the court's mercy and hope for a $100 fine than to fight? Can't I be charged with perjury if I lie and say I did nothing and it's later proven that I actually did do it, like if they demand to see my computer?

so if i sue you for wrecking my car and you didn't your reasoning is to goto court cause you think its cheaper to just plead guilty cause i said 100$ or ill sue you for ten grand? NO this is about making sure that in a civil case the proper lawsuit is at least addressed and not some one trying ot game a system because people are poor.

i'd rather get ten year sin prison then plead guilty to anything i did not do or was not guilty of.

funny

join:2010-12-22
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

Actually, I just looked at C-11...

quote:
Infringements not involved in proceedings

(1.12) If the copyright owner has made an election under subsection (1) with respect to a defendant’s infringements that are for non-commercial purposes, they are barred from recovering statutory damages under this section from that defendant with respect to any other of the defendant’s infringements that were done for non-commercial purposes before the institution of the proceedings in which the election was made.

No other statutory damages

(1.2) If a copyright owner has made an election under subsection (1) with respect to a defendant’s infringements that are for non-commercial purposes, every other copyright owner is barred from electing to recover statutory damages under this section in respect of that defendant for any of the defendant’s infringements that were done for non-commercial purposes before the institution of the proceedings in which the election was made.
Essentially, if Voltage sues someone for non-commercial, they can't sue for statutory dmgs.. And, if there was another infringement before Voltage files, the other copytroll can't sue for it either.

nice try the fact is in other sections they actually spell out what commercial and NON commercial is and you cant bascially ask for commercial damages UNLESS you prove the person was doing commercial aspects and in this the courts, and the govt will say this is non commercial i am very confident of that ....

THUS if they want to ask for NON commercial damages they must first prove it was a commercial copyright infringement....which they cant do form jsut a list of ip addresses ...no more then you can tell who and what i am atm even if you really did it would not change either fact.

in fact the govt has said that the reaosn for the very aspect of a maximum for all infringments for non commerical is the very reaosn the govt says it put that in to stop this kinda of lawsuit...ergo they don't want USA/BRITISH style mass copyright lawsuits....

also due to vagueness of the term "all infringements" one might argue that if your going down for one you might as well admit to them all ....and i mean millions of them and make sure you ask the court to read them all out taking days and days. might bring a smile ot peopels face to know its costing a troll money for lawyers each day...again make sure you run everything by legal counsel...i'm going to add this at end of every post form now on...just so people get the HINT...

funny

join:2010-12-22
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

said by Gone:

said by cog_biz_user:

Would it be considered extortion if they mailed letters to the supposed filesharers asking for more than $5k? Sortof like a "pay us $15k now, or we'll see you in court" kind of thing? I wouldn't be surprised if that actually happens.

That's exactly what happens. Those who ignore the letter and let it go to court usually end up better off - if not outright unscathed - than those who freak out and pay.

They've gotten default judgements from people in the US who've done that.. 250k default judgements against them.

If you make a fuss however, they'll file you in a named suit.. :\

Safest for all, is keeping everything anonymous - making sure Voltage doesn't get the sub info.

and again this is not THE USA
please dont even start ...its nto same country and not even same laws THUS you nor i should care about what happens there in so far as our wanring of the types a trolls we could face and why this law has the terms in it NON COMMERICAL and commerical spelled out for damages...and it has a max 5 grand for non commercial...FOR ALL YOUR INFRINGMENTS.