dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
uniqs
108

mikedz4
join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV

mikedz4 to Mike Wolf

Member

to Mike Wolf

Re: [X1] The New X2 - The "Evolution" of the X1

so are they saying that all of the anyroom filters are installed incorrectly?
SpHeRe31459
Premium Member
join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA

1 edit

1 recommendation

SpHeRe31459 to Mike Wolf

Premium Member

to Mike Wolf
said by Mike Wolf:

Here's whats aggervating, I don't think Comcast has a clue as to how they are going to roll out the X1 software onto currently in place RNG set top boxes the same way they roll out standard updates without a professional installation (at customer's expense) since from what the higher ups have hinted at it uses MoCA which requires a POE adapter "that is installed correctly" Funny how an $8 part is going to throw us all in for a loop.

You're seeing MoCA where none is required, might wanna start going to MoCA obsessors anonymous

X1 doesn't require MoCA if you just have standalone boxes (i.e. boxes that are not AnyRoom enabled).

Remember, X1 uses the built-in independent DOCSIS modem (that all RNG capable hardware has sitting dormant at the moment) to communicate back to Comcast's servers.

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

telcodad

MVM

Yes, right now it seems the XG1 is not utilizing its MoCA interface.

Do the techs put in a POE MoCA filter as part of the X1 installation right now?

That way, when the AnyRoom capability is eventually enabled, another tech visit wouldn't be required if the subscriber has the add-on RNG150N boxes in other rooms.
GoodOmens
join:2005-07-06
Washington, DC

GoodOmens

Member

said by telcodad:

Yes, right now it seems the XG1 is not utilizing its MoCA interface.

Do the techs put in a POE MoCA filter as part of the X1 installation right now?

That way, when the AnyRoom capability is eventually enabled, another tech visit wouldn't be required if the subscriber has the add-on RNG150N boxes in other rooms.

The tech that did the install this morning did for me. I don't have any other boxes either.
SpHeRe31459
Premium Member
join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA

SpHeRe31459 to telcodad

Premium Member

to telcodad
said by telcodad:

Yes, right now it seems the XG1 is not utilizing its MoCA interface.

Do the techs put in a POE MoCA filter as part of the X1 installation right now?

That way, when the AnyRoom capability is eventually enabled, another tech visit wouldn't be required if the subscriber has the add-on RNG150N boxes in other rooms.

My comments were a response to Mike's about upgrading RNG hardware to the X1 software, not installs with the new Pace equipment.

With new installs it makes sense to prep for AnyRoom DVR (MoCA filters), since that's surely coming as another software update in the next couple of months.

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

telcodad

MVM

Yes, I understood what you meant, it just made me wonder if the X1 installers were being "pro-active" in installing MoCA filters right now.

From what GoodOmens See Profile said above, they are.
telcodad

telcodad to Mike Wolf

MVM

to Mike Wolf
said by Mike Wolf:

Here's whats aggervating, I don't think Comcast has a clue as to how they are going to roll out the X1 software onto currently in place RNG set top boxes the same way they roll out standard updates without a professional installation (at customer's expense) since from what the higher ups have hinted at it uses MoCA which requires a POE adapter "that is installed correctly" Funny how an $8 part is going to throw us all in for a loop.

OK, well we are talking about just the guide getting updated to OSG 3.0 (aka "X1") for those current RNG/DCX boxes, and they won't need the POE MoCA filter if the user doesn't want/need AnyRoom service.

If those subscribers do later decide to add AnyRoom service, it would then require a tech visit to install it, as it does today.

If they already have AnyRoom service, then the filters should already be in place.

Also, if those AnyRoom subs have Cisco RNG boxes, then they must have been updated to OSG 2.0 and that means their tru2way paths are now switched on and they now can be easily updated, via software download, to OSG 3.0.

Mike Wolf
join:2009-05-24
Tuckerton, NJ

Mike Wolf to mikedz4

Member

to mikedz4
said by mikedz4:

so are they saying that all of the anyroom filters are installed incorrectly?

No, They are just saying that in order to have AnyRoom DVR or use the X1 service that a professional installation (that the customer pays for) is required so they can install the POE filter so the MoCA signals don't bleed back into Comcast's network. The problem I'm pointing out is that if or when Comcast decides to push the X1 software to the RNG boxes that are already in the home via an over the coax software update, that the question about the POE filter is left. Will the requirement of the POE filter be the sole reason why X1 wouldn't be able to update RNG boxes without a professional installation, or will Comcast come up with another alternative.
Mike Wolf

Mike Wolf to telcodad

Member

to telcodad
said by telcodad:

Yes, right now it seems the XG1 is not utilizing its MoCA interface.

Do the techs put in a POE MoCA filter as part of the X1 installation right now?

That way, when the AnyRoom capability is eventually enabled, another tech visit wouldn't be required if the subscriber has the add-on RNG150N boxes in other rooms.

From what I gather, yes. That's what I've been told by the X1 installers at lunch yesterday.
Mike Wolf

1 edit

Mike Wolf to telcodad

Member

to telcodad
Telcodad, from what I'm gathering, when the X1 software is ready to be updated in place through coax it's possible it's going to be jumped from S2x right into X1 without the OSG2.0 even being used. Whether or not a customer wants AnyRoom is a moot point since the equipment will be communicating with each other via MoCA by default regardless. My question is will a technician be required on site to install MoCA filters of each home an RNG box that was updated to X1 the morning after? The only other solution I can come up with is to have Comcast put the filter on the other side of the line such as from the pole, that way they don't have to schedule an appointment or need access to the customer's home.

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

telcodad

MVM

said by Mike Wolf:

Telcodad, from what I'm gathering, when the X1 software is ready to be updated in place through coax it's possible it's going to be jumped from S2x right into X1 without the OSG2.0 even being used.

Well, as you know, there has been conflicting information about the ability of the current RNG boxes to be updated to OSG 3.0 in place:
From: »forums.comcast.com/t5/Xf ··· 3#M55585
quote:
The new On-Screen Guide 2.0 is delivered to our newest cable boxes (both the Cisco RNG 200N and Cisco RNG 150N) via a different and newer protocol and technology (called OCAP or tru2way).

The Cisco or Scientific-Atlanta DVR that you may have today is not assigned to the tru2way mode and can't be easily flipped or changed into that mode and preserve the current DVR recordings, favorites and other user configurable settings which would be an unfavorable customer experience.

but from: »forums.comcast.com/t5/Xf ··· 9#M73237
quote:
A lot of those details are still being coordinated and finalized.

From a technology perspective, we plan to deliver that kind of upgrade directly to the cable box that is already in the home without having to swap the existing cable box.

Of course, that sort of change requires a lot of advance planning and coordination as well as extensive employee and customer notification and education. When we do this, there will be a lot of public information around the experience. We currently don't anticipate that there will be additional consumer costs around this described process.

We also don't expect that a technician will need to be present for this future already-in-the home guide change.

However, all this is currently being discussed in this thread now:
AnyRoom DVR, tru2way and MoCA in Cisco areas
»forums.comcast.com/t5/Xf ··· /1680151

Mike Wolf
join:2009-05-24
Tuckerton, NJ

Mike Wolf

Member

Yup, that is correct. Really hoping Comcast isn't going to strong arm a customer (by making it mandatory) who is fully capable and technologically savvy enough to install it himself, such as connecting the POE filter.

cypherstream
MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA

cypherstream

MVM

They should just be built into the tap plate.

mikedz4
join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV

mikedz4 to Mike Wolf

Member

to Mike Wolf
mike then I shouldn't have to pay for a professional install since I live in a Motorola area and have anyroom and the installer did install a filter on the outside of the apartment building.

Mike Wolf
join:2009-05-24
Tuckerton, NJ

Mike Wolf

Member

said by mikedz4:

mike then I shouldn't have to pay for a professional install since I live in a Motorola area and have anyroom and the installer did install a filter on the outside of the apartment building.

Let's hope you're right. What kind of filter (brand, model) did the installer install? Heard from a tech today there was a few bad batches shipped out to Comcast on the east coast.
novanosis
join:2011-02-21

novanosis to mikedz4

Member

to mikedz4
said by mikedz4:

mike then I shouldn't have to pay for a professional install since I live in a Motorola area and have anyroom and the installer did install a filter on the outside of the apartment building.

It's not just the filter that a tech is needed. All X1 devices have a modem ,docsis2 for HD boxes, and docsis 3 for dvrs. That means those outlets must be within specifications for docsis devices.

mikedz4
join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV

mikedz4

Member

well I have anyroom dvr so hopefully that will mean everything is fine.
novanosis
join:2011-02-21

novanosis

Member

Your DVR could have an upstream of 53-56 and run just fine, but docsis will need 51 or lower to function. You can of course connect your modem to that outlet and check levels through you GUI page to find out. Depending on the levels you have coming in from the tap it can be a lot of wiggle room or non at all. Say you are getting a 45-46 from the tap and you have a modem and 3 boxes with docsis, that equals to 4 modems. The first split off that 45-46 will turn to 49-50. Now you still need to split the signal 2-3 times more. From a 50 to 53 or on a 7leg tap from splitter you are hitting 54-56. This is not in every scenario. You could possibly have 30-40 coming from the tap and be just fine. But customer service won't take your word for it and will just send a tech out to be sure.

mikedz4
join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV

mikedz4

Member

which means I still have to pay the $100 install fee anyways.
If the tech comes and everything is fine I should be refunded the install fee.
SpHeRe31459
Premium Member
join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA

SpHeRe31459

Premium Member

Well let's not jump to conclusions about how the guide software will or won't be deployed to existing boxes. As Ted has said a few times on the Comcast forums, they're trying to carefully plan how to deploy the X1 software to existing platforms that are currently in legacy mode (i-Guide).

Pretty sure Comcast knows they can't start charging existing customers with what was otherwise working hardware a big install fee for an arbitrary guide software update. I would imagine if they charge anything it would be a simple service call fee to check on things, not an $100 installation fee.
novanosis
join:2011-02-21

1 recommendation

novanosis to mikedz4

Member

to mikedz4
Existing customers should never be charged an install fee that high. The worst would be $30 for install and activation fees. Any work needed to get the levels to specification will be on Comcast.

BrianMalloy
@comcast.net

BrianMalloy to novanosis

Anon

to novanosis
said by novanosis:

said by mikedz4:

mike then I shouldn't have to pay for a professional install since I live in a Motorola area and have anyroom and the installer did install a filter on the outside of the apartment building.

It's not just the filter that a tech is needed. All X1 devices have a modem ,docsis2 for HD boxes, and docsis 3 for dvrs. That means those outlets must be within specifications for docsis devices.

Let's put it this way, if a DOCSIS 2.0 and/or 3.0 modem already in the customer home is working for internet, there shouldn't be any problem with the X1 boxes since they are the same specs. The only time a tech would need to come out would be for a new customer who didn't currently have Comcast services (thus a tech hadn't already checked signal levels in the past).
BrianMalloy

BrianMalloy to SpHeRe31459

Anon

to SpHeRe31459
said by SpHeRe31459:

Well let's not jump to conclusions about how the guide software will or won't be deployed to existing boxes. As Ted has said a few times on the Comcast forums, they're trying to carefully plan how to deploy the X1 software to existing platforms that are currently in legacy mode (i-Guide).

Please keep in mind that the "existing platform" is ONLY the RNG model set top boxes and Motorola DCX3400 and DCX3500, nothing older such as the SA8300HD or SA4200HD in the Cisco/Scientific Atlanta family or anything in the DCT and DCH Motorola family. Very important that this is remembered because if customers are using those boxes (and they want to use the new guide), they WILL require either a box exchange in person at the service/payment center or they will need to schedule an appointment for a service call, and THAT could give Comcast leverage to charge an installation fee.

cypherstream
MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
·PenTeleData
ARRIS SB8200

cypherstream

MVM

One of the biggest issues and a big part of why Tivo on Motorola never made its way out of the New England test region, is DOCSIS on the set top was enabled. A lot of people had a hard time ensuring good 2-way DOCSIS connections on every outlet (not just the modem / emta).

Now that was a few years ago, perhaps technology is better now in these newer cable boxes. Better error correction, adaptive equalization, DOCSIS 3.0 SCDMA upstream modulation to cut through noise, better lasers in the headend, better DFB return lasers in the nodes, etc...

They can surely flip on DOCSIS Set Top Gateway today, but the software always needs to be able to fall back to legacy mode if there are issues.

DennisAllen
@comcast.net

1 recommendation

DennisAllen

Anon

Let's not forget that the reason why TiVo for Comcast never became popular was because the TiVo software was put on cruddy Motorola boxes that didn't have the processing and memory and resources to run it properly. If this was done today on the X1 or RNG boxes, it would be running better then the native TiVo boxes themselves.
novanosis
join:2011-02-21

novanosis to BrianMalloy

Member

to BrianMalloy
said by BrianMalloy :

said by novanosis:

said by mikedz4:

mike then I shouldn't have to pay for a professional install since I live in a Motorola area and have anyroom and the installer did install a filter on the outside of the apartment building.

It's not just the filter that a tech is needed. All X1 devices have a modem ,docsis2 for HD boxes, and docsis 3 for dvrs. That means those outlets must be within specifications for docsis devices.

Let's put it this way, if a DOCSIS 2.0 and/or 3.0 modem already in the customer home is working for internet, there shouldn't be any problem with the X1 boxes since they are the same specs. The only time a tech would need to come out would be for a new customer who didn't currently have Comcast services (thus a tech hadn't already checked signal levels in the past).

No that is not the case for every home sir. I just explained a scenario a few posts up.

mikedz4
join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV

1 recommendation

mikedz4

Member

I live in an apartment complex so Not sure what Comcast could do even if bad signal.
novanosis
join:2011-02-21

novanosis

Member

If the pre wire is in good shape then a tech can make it work. If the signal needs to be better then a line tech will be dispatched to make it work. But if your pre wire is not all home run and daisy chained they can consider that a problem.
macnbc
join:2009-01-12
Arlington, VA

macnbc to BrianMalloy

Member

to BrianMalloy
Let's put it this way, if a DOCSIS 2.0 and/or 3.0 modem already in the customer home is working for internet, there shouldn't be any problem with the X1 boxes since they are the same specs. The only time a tech would need to come out would be for a new customer who didn't currently have Comcast services (thus a tech hadn't already checked signal levels in the past).
That's not certain. When I had my X1 installed (replacing an SA 8300HD) it turned out the signal at the cable box end wasn't up to snuff, even though my cable modem was fine. Turned out there was a bad splitter and once that was replaced everything was OK, but the techs did have to do some troubleshooting to make sure there wouldn't be an issue with my X1.

Mike Wolf
join:2009-05-24
Tuckerton, NJ

Mike Wolf

Member

I'm gonna guess that if X1 were installed without a tech checking the signals and a problem were to occur during the self install, then a tech would have to come out and the customer wouldn't have to pay for whatever reason, however to require a tech to be present each and every time an X1 box is installed when it may not be necessary and FORCE the customer to pay kinda stinks.