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dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Markie

Re: Tim Hortons: foreign temp workers "pioneer"

i like how the Germans do it...you get social assistance for a limited time...after that, you are assigned a job...perhaps we need something similar here...we've got something like 8% unemployment in Canada (almost 20% here in London)...while there is certainly people unable to work, there is no doubt people who are choosing not to.


Devanchya
Smile
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Ajax, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
I have had to look at Foreign workers for a number of positions. Of course in my case it has been for IT work. The local market is VERY tight at the moment for IT and the numbers just didn't add up.

We didn't find anyone Foreign either... Skilled Labour and Tech jobs are very hard to fill at times.

As hard as it is to say this, why are there people at Tim Hortons anyways? Shouldn't they just be putting in Vending Machines? that's what the coffee and food tastes like anyways.
--
»www.codecipher.com - Marking the way to tomorrow's solutions -- Did you know that Perl is not Dead? »perlisalive.org/


loosedobbs

join:2006-06-13
Toronto
said by Devanchya:

I have had to look at Foreign workers for a number of positions. Of course in my case it has been for IT work. The local market is VERY tight at the moment for IT and the numbers just didn't add up.

...

I dont agree. It is just you or others don't want to give money to existing unemployed people. Many companies want the best and brightest but don't want to pay the best. And yes they want smart young people...
I have worked with IT staffing agency in the past and they always play this game, especially with new immigrants. They will have them on contract for years but never offer permanent jobs.

And you forget many many jobs are filled with people someone you know and are never advertised. No matter how bad they are.

I never buy this argument that IT sector has shortage of workers. Always crying about shortages of workers.

JBear

join:2005-02-24
canada
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

One only has to look at recent laws passed by the Federal Govt to blame for this.

Tims can pay less then minimum wage now.

Citation please?

NefCanuck

join:2007-06-26
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Markie
The thing with these programs is they distort the local labour markets by giving the companies access to foreign workers who are willing to work for less than what the prevailing local wage is.

Sure by using these programs you keep the companies costs down (and in theory prices) but in practice all it does is artificially inflate the companies profit numbers because of the distorted labour costs.

But what does it also do? It also reduces the number of jobs that are available to local labour which causes the unemployment rate is be higher than it would be otherwise.

IOW: If the companies didn't have access to the cheaper labour pool that the foreign workers program gives them, they would be forced to provide wages to draw workers to them and reduce the unemployment rate. Which would also have the effect of increasing government tax revenue and reduce the amount of money spent on social programs, which benefits all of us.

But since the corporations "run the show" now, I doubt that anything I've said above hasn't already been thought of and discounted as "bunk" by these same self serving corporations.

NefCanuck


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
it is why i said foreign workers shouldn't be allowed...in any field.


Kitlope

join:2004-07-29
Edmonton, Ab
reply to Markie
Timmy's should be staffed by teenagers for most shifts but Little Johnny is too precious to learn about work ethic. Instead, at 17, he goes to school achieving so-so marks and spends most of his free time playing X-Box with the parents catering to his needs.

It would be easy to blame Johnny but this issue has been created by the helicopter parents. Keep in mind though Timmy's just love to bring in foreigners when they can as cheap labour walks the walk and is the final line.


Markie
Still Living Free

join:2009-07-11
Canada
reply to JBear
said by JBear:

said by elwoodblues:

One only has to look at recent laws passed by the Federal Govt to blame for this.

Tims can pay less then minimum wage now.

Citation please?

True, look it up yourself and you'll learn that these foreigners can legally be paid 15% less than the prevailing market wage courtesy of our federal government. And i don't say that to start an ideological fight, at this juncture as nefcanuck said the corps are running the show now and it is doubtful even the socialists would rescind this unless there was blood spilled in the streets because of it.
--
»libertarian.on.ca/

analog andy

join:2005-01-03
Surrey, BC
reply to Kitlope
said by Kitlope:

Timmy's should be staffed by teenagers for most shifts but Little Johnny is too precious to learn about work ethic. Instead, at 17, he goes to school achieving so-so marks and spends most of his free time playing X-Box with the parents catering to his needs.

It would be easy to blame Johnny but this issue has been created by the helicopter parents. Keep in mind though Timmy's just love to bring in foreigners when they can as cheap labour walks the walk and is the final line.

If Johnny is not leeching off the system like the corporations get to and he's even living off his parents who cares what he does with his life. Why is it any of your business?

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to PX Eliezer70
said by PX Eliezer70:

I have always wondered about this:

Does it pay to be open at 3:30 AM?

Except at the very busiest stores, seems absolutely nuts.

Considering night staff have other duties than just manning the cash register (cleaning, re-stocking, preparing large orders, etc.) yes, it pays to be open. Sales are free money as they'd need someone in there anyway.

BTW forcing those kind of places to pay more to hire unemployed people only perpetuates the problem. When the effective minimum wage gets to be $25+ because unemployed people won't work for less then the price of everything has to go up, and this creates extremely high inflation and cost of living for EVERYBODY in that area, not just the unemployed people, which in turn raises the poverty level in that area, and raises the amount of money unemployed people will want before getting off their ass.

When you see the amount of demagogy that came out of the Left when EI rules were changed recently to allow the program to force someone to take a job at 80% of their former salary can you imagine the consequences if you could force them to take minimum wage jobs, even if they're not actually paid minimum wage?

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver
reply to Thane_Bitter
said by Thane_Bitter:

Are teenagers so well off they don't need jobs?

Actually tims probably doesnt even consider them. My gf applied at timmies and never heard back. They use those annoying online hr apps to filter everyone. These temp worker permits are being abused and the government is complicit.


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to Doonz
said by Doonz:

...not to mention that a lot of canadians look down upon these jobs...

This.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to JBear
said by JBear:

said by elwoodblues:

One only has to look at recent laws passed by the Federal Govt to blame for this.

Tims can pay less then minimum wage now.

Citation please?

»m.thestar.com/opinion/editorials···y-tories
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


Markie
Still Living Free

join:2009-07-11
Canada
reply to IamGimli
Click for full size
Clearly the equilibrium wage is too low, no one is forcing an employers hand or advocating for a $25 minimum wage...just honest capitalism.
--
»libertarian.on.ca/


Kitlope

join:2004-07-29
Edmonton, Ab

3 edits
reply to analog andy
quote:
Why is it any of your business?
Ummm, because this is a discussion about temporary foreign workers being employed instead of rightful Canadians. No need to get snarky analog andy, were you one of those slacking, catered to children?

Here's a link to a story I read some months ago about the disappearing summer job, which IMO can be applied to today's teen work ethic in general, although obviously things like the recession don't help matters .

»usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/ec···555506/1

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver
reply to loosedobbs
said by loosedobbs:

said by Devanchya:

I have had to look at Foreign workers for a number of positions. Of course in my case it has been for IT work. The local market is VERY tight at the moment for IT and the numbers just didn't add up.

...

I dont agree. It is just you or others don't want to give money to existing unemployed people. Many companies want the best and brightest but don't want to pay the best. And yes they want smart young people...
I have worked with IT staffing agency in the past and they always play this game, especially with new immigrants. They will have them on contract for years but never offer permanent jobs.

And you forget many many jobs are filled with people someone you know and are never advertised. No matter how bad they are.

I never buy this argument that IT sector has shortage of workers. Always crying about shortages of workers.

Me too. There are soooo many kids fresh out of school that can be hired. Imo if companies decide to do the foreign worker it should cost them. They should have to be their sponsor for 5years then after that the worker gets citizenship. Foreign workers that great anyhow. My department hired 2.1already quit, the other is nice. Thing is know that bcit has tons of kids graduating in this field.
--
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it."-Malcolm X

Expand your moderator at work

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to elwoodblues

Re: Tim Hortons: foreign temp workers "pioneer"

said by elwoodblues:

said by JBear:

said by elwoodblues:

One only has to look at recent laws passed by the Federal Govt to blame for this.

Tims can pay less then minimum wage now.

Citation please?

»m.thestar.com/opinion/editorials···y-tories

You mean to present as proof that Tim Hortons can now pay foreign workers less than minimum wage an article that specifically says the opposite?

Under the new rules, foreign temporary workers will still covered by provincial employment standards, meaning they must be paid the minimum wage.


prairiesky

join:2008-12-08
canada
kudos:2
reply to IamGimli
said by IamGimli:

said by PX Eliezer70:

I have always wondered about this:

Does it pay to be open at 3:30 AM?

Except at the very busiest stores, seems absolutely nuts.

Considering night staff have other duties than just manning the cash register (cleaning, re-stocking, preparing large orders, etc.) yes, it pays to be open. Sales are free money as they'd need someone in there anyway.

BTW forcing those kind of places to pay more to hire unemployed people only perpetuates the problem. When the effective minimum wage gets to be $25+ because unemployed people won't work for less then the price of everything has to go up, and this creates extremely high inflation and cost of living for EVERYBODY in that area, not just the unemployed people, which in turn raises the poverty level in that area, and raises the amount of money unemployed people will want before getting off their ass.

When you see the amount of demagogy that came out of the Left when EI rules were changed recently to allow the program to force someone to take a job at 80% of their former salary can you imagine the consequences if you could force them to take minimum wage jobs, even if they're not actually paid minimum wage?

This;
Raising the wages paid does not correlate to lowering the unemployment rate. And if it does because someone won't take a job for less than $X/hr, than their priorities are wrong. Not allowing the use of foreign workers does 2 things, it could force the business to close and it removes employment from those foreign workers. The way I see it is, if you think you're too good to work at tims, why shouldn't they be allowed to hire someone who will appreciate and make use of the wages they are being paid. Tims is actually helping boost other economies by allowing these foreign workers to bring money home, allowing them to support their families. It's a global market place.

JBear

join:2005-02-24
canada
reply to Markie
said by Markie:

said by JBear:

said by elwoodblues:

One only has to look at recent laws passed by the Federal Govt to blame for this.

Tims can pay less then minimum wage now.

Citation please?

True, look it up yourself and you'll learn that these foreigners can legally be paid 15% less than the prevailing market wage courtesy of our federal government. And i don't say that to start an ideological fight, at this juncture as nefcanuck said the corps are running the show now and it is doubtful even the socialists would rescind this unless there was blood spilled in the streets because of it.

With all due respect, you first said "pay less then minimum wage now" and now you are saying "paid 15% less than the prevailing market wage...".


shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB
reply to Kitlope
said by Kitlope:

Timmy's should be staffed by teenagers for most shifts but Little Johnny is too precious to learn about work ethic. Instead, at 17, he goes to school achieving so-so marks and spends most of his free time playing X-Box with the parents catering to his needs.

It would be easy to blame Johnny but this issue has been created by the helicopter parents. Keep in mind though Timmy's just love to bring in foreigners when they can as cheap labour walks the walk and is the final line.

You're kidding, right? Teens like Johnny should only be working 4-10pm at the very most, maybe 3 times a week, as thier primary job (school) takes precedence. Tim's operates 3 shifts; 6-3, 3-11, 11-7. Considering the busiest time of day for Tim's is 6-10am, that means Tim's can't even use part time school kids to cover off the morning rush. And, who's working FT at Tim's these days? Either should-be-almost-retired folks or new-ish immigrants who are supporting a family. Any Tim's owner would tell you they'd rather have a set schedule of FT employees that they know are going to be there day in and day out. There's no room for PT kids at a Tim's anymore, except for weekends. Weekends, realistically for teens, means a total of 4 possible shifts for maybe 4 kids total. These temp workers? The 11-7 folks because the night shift is by far the hardest to staff and maintain.
--
I'm a man, but I can change. If I have to. I guess.

»shaner38.blogspot.com/


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
reply to Markie
Not enough local labor? Raise the salary? Not enough? Raise it some more.. Raise it high enough and people WILL come. If you can't make money by hiring Canadian labor, you shouldn't operate a business in Canada. Using migrants increases our unemployment and decreases the wages. The companies that use migrants grow fat by sucking our middle class dry and don't put anything back into it, thus creating a negative net effect. If any of you think any of those corporate profits are gonna trickle down, I have a bridge to sell ya
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB
Then people bitch and moan when prices go up. Last time timmies raised coffee prices, there was almost rioting in the street.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
said by shaner:

Last time timmies raised coffee prices, there was almost rioting in the street.

Rioting?! They should use decaf.


Markie
Still Living Free

join:2009-07-11
Canada
reply to JBear
»news.gc.ca/web/article-eng.do?nid=670919

A new wage structure will also be introduced to provide employers with greater flexibility. Wages that are up to 15% below the average wage for an occupation in a specific region will be accepted; however, employers must clearly demonstrate that the wage is consistent with that of Canadian workers based on Statistics Canada data.

Sounds like a bit of double speak to me, this was hatched in the spring and we'll see how it gets interpreted going forward.
--
»libertarian.on.ca/


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2
reply to shaner
said by shaner:

Then people bitch and moan when prices go up. Last time timmies raised coffee prices, there was almost rioting in the street.

A pot of coffee costs less than 50 cents to make at retail prices. I think there's more than enough profit there to sustain a business at wholesale levels.
--
I'm not anti-social, I just don't like stupid people.


Markie
Still Living Free

join:2009-07-11
Canada
reply to Markie
In other related news,

The B.C. Federation of Labour says documents show it will be 14 years before Canadians replace all the temporary foreign workers from China hired to work at an underground coal mine in northern B.C.

Two unions are in court challenging more than 200 temporary foreign worker permits obtained by HD Mining for its Murray River underground coal mine near Tumbler Ridge, B.C. The employer says there were no qualified Canadians to do the specialized work at the underground mine.

Documents tendered in the case include HD Mining's previously unreleased transition plan, which outlines how the company won't start hiring Canadian miners for more than four years and plans to continue using temporary foreign workers for the next 14 years.

"What the document says categorically is it will be 4½ years before a single Canadian will be working underground at the mine," said B.C. Federation of Labour president Jim Sinclair.

"After 4½ years, it will be 10 years before it will be a majority of Canadians working underground, and it will be 15 years before the temporary foreign workers are finished working in that mine."

The plan says temporary foreign workers will be used for 30 months of construction and then for two more years as they set up a training school and start recruiting and training Canadians.

Because no construction workers exist in Canada? Or because they won't sign back their paychecks to the corporation?
--
»libertarian.on.ca/

jaberi

join:2010-08-13
reply to Markie
a qualified and law abiding citizen from UK wanted to come and work with us some time ago....the said person was hired by the company but the employer had to prove to the government why there was no canadian able to do this job...guess what, the person was denied.

does this not apply to the current foreign workers and working for timmy's?

capdjq
Premium
join:2000-11-01
Vancouver
Regardless, I still like Timmy's Chili. Coffee I prefer Starbucks.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to jaberi
similar thing happened to my friend...he went to school in Australia...while over there, met a great girl and she came back with him...they went through all the procedures for her to become a citizen and they even got married while they were waiting for everything to go through...it was almost 3 years and they were fed up, so they both went back to Australia and he became an Australian citizen (it took only a few months)...they both work, contribute to society, have a couple of kids now and enjoy their life together down there...it seems we are too interested in keeping employable people who want to contribute out and diluting our workforce with people who don't speak the language, have little interest in "integration" and who come here to live off our social programs...it's backwards thinking, and will be the financial end to our prosperity.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell