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elitefx
join:2011-02-14
London, ON

1 edit

1 recommendation

elitefx to Zyzomys

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to Zyzomys

Re: Kickstarter to raise funds for legal fees vs Voltage LLC

said by Zyzomys:

I think members of your group should make it very clear that if Teksavvy does not fight the court action on Monday.......

Really. Think about it.

Teksavvy (or ANY ISP) is NOT in any way shape or form responsible for the misuse and abuse of their Internet service by uninformed uncaring customers.

Take responsibility for your actions people. You dug the hole. Now you find a way to climb out.

Any punitive action involving innocent parties because of your questionable personal activities are self-defeating. You're only digging the hole deeper..............

A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium Member
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

A Lurker to technocar2

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to technocar2
The one issue I see here is that you're only going to gather a few more tech-saavy people. I'd be surprised if 10% of people getting notices are on dslreports. The real problem with this type of bulk IP request is that some people will just freak out and pay.

(Just saying this as a third party as I'm not a Tek user, nor a BT one. As I posted in another thread have in the past received an auto email from Cogeco which was because of a duplicate modem mac on the network. The IPs were different, but I got the notice just the same.)
stevey_frac
join:2009-12-09
Cambridge, ON

stevey_frac

Member

Campaign is live.

»www.indiegogo.com/Agains ··· Bullying
stevey_frac

stevey_frac

Member

Its a little rough, but its up.

If you have any copy suggestions, typos, or whatever, let me know.

I put $5000 as a low realistic goal for a few reasons. I have to get going, but I'll explain later.
JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

JMJimmy to stevey_frac

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to stevey_frac
$5k is about enough to get a decent lawyer on retainer but not enough to fund a defence. To put it in perspective, my aunt is a malpractice lawyer and that would pay her for about 4-5 hours. $50k might be a better starting goal.
GrandMama
join:2007-10-22
Ottawa, ON

GrandMama to stevey_frac

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to stevey_frac
Please, edit your first post to show that link.

Thanks.
funny0
join:2010-12-22

funny0 to Guspaz

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to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

It's not an "instead of, consider" kind of thing. The plan as described is expressly forbidden by Kickstarter; you have to produce a product. Charity stuff needs to use Indiegogo instead.

so we get everyone to donate 10$ then send them a letter with a thank you on -ergo a product...

we'll call it the troll buster
funny0

funny0 to bw777

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to bw777
said by bw777:

I'm very interested in this thread and would contribute to the campaign. If there's a question of the "product" for Kickstarter, as was raised in an earlier thread, the product is the form letter.

I will say that I think that a letter would carry more weight actually coming from a real lawyers office, but having something pre-drafted will likely defer some cost.

It's probably best that the letter contains the legalese equivalent of "an IP address is not a person". (also see a recent US ruling)

If they get the court order and actually call people to court, the potential to make this case law in Canada is huge. Seek the support of the EFF then and start online fund-raising. Lots of people in Canada would love to see case law made here.

um were in canada laws are actually different eh?
funny0

funny0 to stevey_frac

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to stevey_frac
why not start the teksavvy users union and have anyone wishing to partake in it pay a monthly 2-3$ and let that build up in a bank account for any legal issues regarding stuff like this....
if 10-20K users join in a short time frame we'd have a huge fund able to really smack down this stuff and possible some lobby power too.
plumerya
join:2004-08-20
Montreal, QC

plumerya to technocar2

Member

to technocar2
Good Idea, but not eveyone knows about dslreports It would be nice if Teksavvy can spread the news by sending users an email and inform them of this possible recourse
funny0
join:2010-12-22

funny0 to technocar2

Member

to technocar2
NO you want each case heard individually
why cause if you make onemistake you make it for 2300 people
and i'll add that is why there are laws about what can and can't be class actionable.

ive looked up what can and can't and this can't
they can get the list form TSI maybe ...i'll add what htey really want to do with that list is nit pick whom would be the easiest targets to persue. The final list might be somehting like 50 people , 50 that dont come here , 50 that dont have a clue what there rights are and are so freaked they settle

500K dollars costing them nearly 250-300K to do it...it aint gonna be profitable neither way and ill tell ya its not wise to keep pushing all this crap on people especially with 80 year term rates that were 50 years
I am tempted to start pushing we move copyright not only back to 50 but every time one of these trolls starts we drop ten more years.
counterfeiters dont even want to counterfeit there garbage cause no one is buying it...pirates i know never heard of any of these but hurt locker and only from lawsuits

its not in stores anywhere cause no one is buying it.
vincent price movies are a better buy and how old are they?
Gruesome
join:2007-10-18
Milton, ON

Gruesome to stevey_frac

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to stevey_frac
I just donated $10, if this thing gets off the ground I'll add another $100, maybe more

Doctor9
join:2012-11-26

Doctor9 to elitefx

Member

to elitefx
said by elitefx:

said by Zyzomys:

I think members of your group should make it very clear that if Teksavvy does not fight the court action on Monday.......

Really. Think about it.

Teksavvy (or ANY ISP) is NOT in any way shape or form responsible for the misuse and abuse of their Internet service by uninformed uncaring customers.

Take responsibility for your actions people. You dug the hole. Now you find a way to climb out.

Any punitive action involving innocent parties because of your questionable personal activities are self-defeating. You're only digging the hole deeper..............

Agreed entirely.

The most hilarious part of all this is they don't even realize the whole basis of this is a contradiction. The movies were "garbage" yet the movies were apparently good enough to download and watch. The intellectual property holders are copyright "trolls" yet being called a "copyright troll" would lead you to believe their work is worthless that nobody would want, but yet again they downloaded and watched it. Not to mention that the law is the law yet they did it anyways. The whole argument here is beyond absurd.

Doing something that is technically wrong that you don't feel guilty about and just trying to find a way out of it when you are caught is one thing. But this whole campaign where they twist this into actually being victims, with a few even wanting damages out of this is almost beyond words.
Gruesome
join:2007-10-18
Milton, ON

Gruesome to stevey_frac

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to stevey_frac
My original message is being held by the system, I put up ten bucks and will add another hundred if I see this thing get going
funny0
join:2010-12-22

funny0 to JMJimmy

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to JMJimmy
said by JMJimmy:

$5k is about enough to get a decent lawyer on retainer but not enough to fund a defence. To put it in perspective, my aunt is a malpractice lawyer and that would pay her for about 4-5 hours. $50k might be a better starting goal.

weird i had a trail and paid only 1000 dollars and that guy was a biker lawyer....given its been 15 years lets double that or triple it...
still 5 grand should get you going i doubt you need much more then saying prove i made money form your product as i didn't drop this suit ...or prove otherwise.
BANG dropped
Expand your moderator at work

CrazyCanuck
@reliablehosting.com

CrazyCanuck to funny0

Anon

to funny0

Re: Kickstarter to raise funds for legal fees vs Voltage LLC

Five thousand dollars won't do much you will need at least $20 000 to $30 000. But let's not jump the gun, let's wait and see what happens first.
bw777
join:2012-12-12

bw777 to funny0

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to funny0
said by funny0:

said by bw777:

It's probably best that the letter contains the legalese equivalent of "an IP address is not a person". (also see a recent US ruling)

um were in canada laws are actually different eh?

Sure, but I wasn't stating it was case law. I was pointing out that courts in other countries are recognising that IP addresses aren't people.

IP addresses have the same properties from country to country, no?

bbbc
join:2001-10-02
NorthAmerica

1 edit

bbbc to stevey_frac

Member

to stevey_frac
said by stevey_frac :

The individual clients will then hopefully look us up.

I don't think you have anything to worry about once a decision is made, whether on Monday or not. The media might fuck up the story, but they will also report about a dude named Steve who set up a defense website.

I just donated too.
Expand your moderator at work

DarkStar33
join:2008-03-27
Toronto, ON

DarkStar33 to stevey_frac

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to stevey_frac

Re: Kickstarter to raise funds for legal fees vs Voltage LLC

Zero reason for Teksavvy to get involved outside of there legal requirements.

They dont need to be anyone middle men or coordinate legal defenses.

Personal action, personal responsibility.
Expand your moderator at work

Gimli
Premium Member
join:2006-01-03
l5a2o4

Gimli to stevey_frac

Premium Member

to stevey_frac

Re: Kickstarter to raise funds for legal fees vs Voltage LLC

Whats with all the Mod deletions?

clarknova
join:2010-02-23
Grande Prairie, AB

clarknova to stevey_frac

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to stevey_frac
»www.michaelgeist.ca/
Gruesome
join:2007-10-18
Milton, ON

Gruesome to stevey_frac

Member

to stevey_frac
Fund is up to $50, I gave and I'm not on the list
skd5
join:2012-12-12

skd5 to stevey_frac

Member

to stevey_frac
I added my initial $20
stevey_frac
join:2009-12-09
Cambridge, ON

stevey_frac

Member

We're over $100, and I've added the link to the OP!

Let's do this.

--Steve

Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium Member
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON

1 recommendation

Teddy Boom to stevey_frac

Premium Member

to stevey_frac
I think you need to reveal the name of the lawyer you are discussing, and their qualifications in this area of law. Anything you can do to establish the credibility and competency of your campaign is critical.

I think technocar2 is a little too worried about capturing everyone. Just creating a credible and competent alternative to coughing up settlement money is a huge positive step. 100% buy-in is an impossible goal at the best of times, but any "anti-FUD" will have a positive impact in the long term and is worth doing.

Further to technocar2's comments, I question whether this situation can fit a class-action well. Of course I don't have a lot of basis for that, but a class-defence seems to be very unusual indeed, and class-action in Canada is a huge challenge to begin with. A competent lawyer will figure that out though, so not much point belabouring it here..

Unfortunately, I think as a publicly funded effort, you don't have any choice but to discuss strategy openly. You need to work hard to establish your credibility, and that takes hard information, even at the cost of handing it over to Voltage. It doesn't have to include every detail, and disclosures need to be thought through, but the public's willingness to give you money is contingent on them trusting you to do a good job.

In the end this is a battle of perception more than it is a question of law. To that end you also need good PR, and you need to look strong. Setting modest goals and meeting them easily is a good first step to that I think.

Teksavvy's involvement is critical. You should be talking to Teksavvy now about what is possible, and under what conditions. A positive endorsement is a huge ask, and probably can't happen. A simple "you might consider contacting this organization--this is not an endorsement from Teksavvy" in the next update email will be much easier.
qewey
join:2007-10-04

qewey to stevey_frac

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to stevey_frac

Re: Kickstarter for funds VS Voltage Lawsuits-CAMPAIGN LAUNCHED!

yes we need UBB like publicity to this.

Other forums here than TSI, facebook, twitter, youtube, consumers associations, internet media even the front page news here at dslreports would be a good start.