Topic 'Copyright - are you affected?' in forum 'TekSavvy' - dslreports.com

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 22:36:03 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted :

Bottom line. If you did torrent the movie and are trying to weasel out of it by claiming that it wasn't your fault ( dog ate my homework defense ) good luck with that. If you really really didn't torrent it, you're just as screwed trying to prove that they're mistaken.

Exactly.

Downloaded the file - you're guilty.
Since can't prove a negative, that you didn't download it - you're guilty too.

For this reason alone the court should find everyone not guilty.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 13:21:20 EDT

drjp81 posted :

said by Torabo:

said by WhaleOilBee:

I'm thinking more of the legal defense to a copyright suit that someone connected to your WiFi without your knowledge. Even if you had unprotected access, but somehow were still diligent enough to log all the MAC addresses of every device that was ever connected to your router, it would be practically impossible to prove it wasn't one of your own machines, because as you said, MACs can be changed.

Bottom line. If you did torrent the movie and are trying to weasel out of it by claiming that it wasn't your fault ( dog ate my homework defense ) good luck with that. If you really really didn't torrent it, you're just as screwed trying to prove that they're mistaken.

That's exactly the point... you really shouldn't have to be the one to prove this... it should be up to the accuser... unfortunately because not everyone understands technology to the same degree, not to mention not everyone can afford court fees, you're stuck with just rolling over and taking it up the behind.

In court it would take me all of 20 minutes to demonstrate to the judge that :

a) I can replace a bunch of bytes in any log (the one's representing anything from IP to MAC addresses.
b) that I can pop a router in front of an entire infra structure, slap a "clone MAC address" on the "wan" side and then just forward the packets along behind it, and voila, I've proven that a MAC is meaningless.

I'm sure someone else will do much better than I could.
--
Cheers!

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:06:44 EDT

Torabo posted :

said by WhaleOilBee:

OTOH if your car was involved in a hit and run, and then you claimed it was stolen, but didn't report it until some time after the accident, would they believe you?

Considering I was just pointing that out to show how that example doesn't really fit, but either way, by the same logic, its is WAY easier to convince someone that you had no idea your wifi was being stolen, esp if you have a high, or no usage cap, than that you didn't notice your car was missing from your garage for days.

said by WhaleOilBee:

At any given time I can see the MAC addresses of every connection to my consumer grade router. Heck, I can even grant or refuse access to my WiFi based on this MAC ( Wireless MAC filter). I'm pretty sure that's a common feature, but I might be wrong. The best protection would be not to broadcast your SSID, to enable WPA:AES, and only grant access to known MAC addresses. Unless you live next door to super hackers, I doubt that anybody would get unauthorized access to your internet connection.

Oh sure you can SEE the mac address connecting to your router at any given time.. but a LOG of it? I don't know of any consumer grade router that actually LOGS it, and I don't know a single person that's going to periodically log into their router ever few moments and manually log that. SSID hiding and MAC filtering isn't as useful as you think... (read »www.zdnet.com/blog/ou/the-six-du···s-lan/43 if you feel like), WPA-AES is secure... depending on your actual pass phrase, and if its not unique enough there's automated softwares and guides around the net easily googled for cracking it. You don't need to be a super-hacker, and tbh, not everyone would use a long chain of random alpha numeric numbers that they can't remember as the password anyway... and nor should they be expected to. Its like your house, you don't "deserve" to be robbed, nor is it your fault of you're not using whatever the latest and greatest locks are on the market for securing your house. The fault should always be on the person committing the actual crime.... though judging from the track record of these.... people, their methodologies used in the past (and maybe now) aren't exactly flawless.. I mean, claiming a printer downloaded something just because a spoofed ip was inserted into a tracker?

said by WhaleOilBee:

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 00:07:45 EDT

WhaleOilBee posted :

said by Torabo:

If someone steals your car and runs a few lights, I'm pretty sure you're not responsible for the fines either.

OTOH if your car was involved in a hit and run, and then you claimed it was stolen, but didn't report it until some time after the accident, would they believe you?

said by Torabo:

Also, MAC address? that's a joke since you can change the wireless adaptor MAC address very easily, both on your computer or on a router. Heck, mine are all randomly generated since that's what I did to get get different IP addresses as the "dynamic IP" that's assigned to cable internet connections is damned far from dynamic, at least from what I can tell. The MAC address (assuming you even have such a log... I've never seen one on consumer routers) is just as meaningless if not more so than the IP address they have.

said by Torabo:

Also, if you're on a cable connection.... there do still exist modems with cloned MAC address out in the wild..... so while the IP address will resolve to your modem's mac and be traced to you at a cursory glance... it'd be hard to prove, and I really don't think teksavvy could do this sort of tracking anyway without going through rogers (maybe somebody can prove me wrong? but that's my understanding anyway)

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:32:32 EDT

Tyreman posted :

said by Torabo:

If someone steals your car and runs a few lights, I'm pretty sure you're not responsible for the fines either.

Your kids, that's another story because you authorized their access... Also, MAC address? that's a joke since you can change the wireless adaptor MAC address very easily, both on your computer or on a router. Heck, mine are all randomly generated since that's what I did to get get different IP addresses as the "dynamic IP" that's assigned to cable internet connections is damned far from dynamic, at least from what I can tell. The MAC address (assuming you even have such a log... I've never seen one on consumer routers) is just as meaningless if not more so than the IP address they have.

Also, if you're on a cable connection.... there do still exist modems with cloned MAC address out in the wild..... so while the IP address will resolve to your modem's mac and be traced to you at a cursory glance... it'd be hard to prove, and I really don't think teksavvy could do this sort of tracking anyway without going through rogers (maybe somebody can prove me wrong? but that's my understanding anyway)

I have had a couple people update their bios then they get a weird address then have to go and correct it
So yeah its changeable
--
Southern Ontario,Canada

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:16:15 EDT

Torabo posted : If someone steals your car and runs a few lights, I'm pretty sure you're not responsible for the fines either.

Your kids, that's another story because you authorized their access... Also, MAC address? that's a joke since you can change the wireless adaptor MAC address very easily, both on your computer or on a router. Heck, mine are all randomly generated since that's what I did to get get different IP addresses as the "dynamic IP" that's assigned to cable internet connections is damned far from dynamic, at least from what I can tell. The MAC address (assuming you even have such a log... I've never seen one on consumer routers) is just as meaningless if not more so than the IP address they have.

Also, if you're on a cable connection.... there do still exist modems with cloned MAC address out in the wild..... so while the IP address will resolve to your modem's mac and be traced to you at a cursory glance... it'd be hard to prove, and I really don't think teksavvy could do this sort of tracking anyway without going through rogers (maybe somebody can prove me wrong? but that's my understanding anyway)

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:03:09 EDT

WhaleOilBee posted : I wonder if/when these cases go to court, how successful will "the dog ate my homework" defense be?

Stolen WiFi, unsupervised kids, renters, roommates, guests, etc. This reminds me of Photo Radar - where the owner of the vehicle is held responsible for the speeding fines ( but not the demerit points ) instead of the driver at the time of the infraction.

I don't know how precise the law is in all of these instances. Parents are usually held responsible for the actions of their children, no?. The (innocent) account owner would probably have to turn around and sue the guilty party to recover their losses if a judgement goes against them.

Stolen WiFi defense? Well, it isn't "stealing" if you're not depriving someone of tangible goods; how ironic. If that defense gets tossed out, how could you prove who really did it, unless you record MAC addresses. Good luck getting a warrant to search your neighbours' computers for the offending MAC. At best, you might be able to prove that during the period in question there was unauthorized access to your system. Of course the plaintiff's counter argument is that you simply disposed of the computer with that MAC.

This is a mess, new legal territory in Canada. I don't think it's going to be sorted out any time soon. I feel sorry for the folks that are going to be the precedent setting cases in all this.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:33:09 EDT

Optional posted : Thanks for that.

Is everyone notified now or could it trickle in later?

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:32:20 EDT

JMJimmy posted : lol - that and the fact that the harddrive on my computer died a couple weeks ago and I got a new computer as a result. That was just happenstance though.

That said though that's an argument for me to make not Teksavvy, once Teksavvy establishes that VP LLC has the right to request the information, that the data collection methods are sound (ie: no chance of false positives), and that the information will have the same safeguards while in their possession as it does in Teksavvy's. (ie: Excel format is not secure enough). Once Tek has done that, they've done their due diligence. Should they fail to do that, they might as well be handing our information to Nigerian scammers.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:31:38 EDT

TSI Jonathan posted : Hi Optional,

It does not matter, even if you had a year old account or like you said created it 5 mins ago, If you do not see a message in your MyWorld portal, this means that you did not receive a notification.

thank you,

TSI Jonathan
--
Social Media Relations Team Leader
Authorized TSI employee - Teksavvy Solutions Inc.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:29:21 EDT

Optional posted : Umm

If I just created my teksavvy world account now, and there's no message, am I good to go here? Or will it take time to show up. I didnt have an account until 5 minutes ago.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:11:14 EDT

iknow_t posted :

said by JMJimmy:

Please excuse the double post but I wanted to be sure this was copied to Marc.

I just received another email from Teksavvy support which states:

If your IP address is on the list, please email support@teksavvy.com for a copy of your email, with full details.

I emailed them for details at 3:32pm on the 10th with no response. I also sent an email 11:12am on the 11th to the privacy ombudsman, also with no response. With only 1 business day left before the hearing we really need to get answers.

make them PROVE who was using the computer at that time(they CAN'T) so they have no idea who they are suing. of course, you use window washer and also wash the free space every day to free up space on your computers, so there is no evidence whatsoever on your computers to find!!.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:10:23 EDT

Tyreman posted : At least no messages like that :D didn't figure on it but have kids and they have explicit instruction as to what not to do

They can go get Netflix.
--
Southern Ontario,Canada

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:08:25 EDT

anon posted : Same boat here. Can't access myworld. Say I am already registered. Try password recovery and it came back with no user information???

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:57:51 EDT

diskdocx posted :

said by TSI Andre:

said by diskdocx:

said by Sears:

What is the portal login, I've registered ages ago and forgot.

The usual teksavvy email login doesn't seem to work for the password recovery option.

"We were unable to access your information. Please try again."

I'm in the same boat. I cannot remember my login info, and when I try to register it says I already have an account.

I tried the password reset, but it is clearly not the same email address as I use to check usage.

Any suggestions???

Thank you for the super fast reply (now that's customer support!)

Of course after about an hour of trying, as soon as I post this, I figured it out. Internet karma.

It was Sear's follow up post that gave it away. The log in isn't an email, but rather a user name. I was trying all the email addresses and couldn't get in.

Anyway, successful login, and my account was clear - which I would have expected as I don't use torrents and can't honestly say I had heard of any of those movies anyway.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:54:24 EDT

TSI Andre posted :

said by diskdocx:

said by Sears:

PM me the following. I will delete the account and have you re-create it.

- Name on Account
- Email on Account
- Telephone Number on Account

I will then ask you to confirm something else and we will be good to go.

Thanks,

Andre
--
TSI Andre
Director of Service Delivery
Authorized TekSavvy Employee ( »TekSavvy FAQ »Official support in the forum )
Follow me on Twitter!

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:54:12 EDT

Gruesome posted : it should be the e-mail address you receive your invoice on

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:51:38 EDT

diskdocx posted :

said by Sears:

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:14:57 EDT

JMJimmy posted : And the fact that IPs from out of Ontario were identified as in-province customers? No one seems willing to answer that one.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:11:06 EDT

TSI Andre posted : NP :)

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:06:00 EDT

jono181 posted : Thanks for clarifying.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:59:41 EDT

TSI Andre posted : Here is what the message would look like:

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:57:31 EDT

TSI Andre posted : if you don't see a message in red, it means that you were not sent a notification about Copyright Infringement.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:48:59 EDT

pldube posted :

said by Tyreman:

So I went to the portal and "my World" times out but did get of course get home, support, billing,FAQ, portal requests and saw nada nothing in each headings page.

same for me

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:42:39 EDT

anon posted : So on the Teksavvy page, if we are not on the list we shouldn't see anything right?

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:38:33 EDT

Tyreman posted : So I went to the portal and "my World" times out but did get of course get home, support, billing,FAQ, portal requests and saw nada nothing in each headings page.
--
Southern Ontario,Canada

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:29:05 EDT

TSI Duty Mgr posted : If you are having problems accessing "www.teksavvy.ca" and "www.myworld.teksavvy.com" because of time outs, the sites are not loading, or being slow...this is because of the amount of customers trying to access this at once.

Please continue to attempt accessing our sites as we are looking into resolving this issue as soon as possible.
--
TSI Duty Mgr
Operations Manager on Duty

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:22:48 EDT

anon posted :

said by kabes:

It looks like these are the movies Canpire was monitoring...

Generation Um....
Tucker & Dale vs Evil
True Justice (first season)
The Third Act aka The Magic of Belle Isle
The Good Doctor
Rosewood Lane
Another Happy Day aka The Reasonable Bunch
Killer Joe
Escapee

Seriously? That's it? A bunch of no-name movies that nobody in their right mind would actually watch, much less download? I'm having a really hard time believing that 2200 Teksavvy customers alone downloaded those movies.

I would find it hard to believe that even 2 customers downloaded any of those movies! There's got to be something wrong with Voltage's claim.

Maybe they really have a list of 2200 people that downloaded any movie or music file (from a list of thousands of titles). Basically, anyone doing P2P sharing during Sept and October? Perhaps this is really Canpire's "master list" of downloaders/sharers?

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:22:39 EDT

funny posted :

said by Samgee:

It's interesting that in their newest submission they admit to only creating a single complete copy of each of the files. So, 2000 people, 1 instance of copyright infringement per title?

What's the cost of a couple dozen DVD's divided by 2000? No wonder these jokers never make it to court.

The new law is meant to target providers of content, not downloaders. Now, if they had managed to download a couple dozen copies of each file from each IP, that would be different. That's not what they have indicated they have done.

no the new law is aimed primarily at counterfeiters and those making money which is why the way it works is judges were instructed to give downloaders and non commercial file sharers the low side of the 100-5000 and ill add its for ALL your infringements

so here is a question to those nailed by it why not admit to everything you ever did and hten you cant be sued later...after all its for all infringements ROFL now that would be funny

i would argue in court ( IAMNL)that as long as im not giving out more then too many copies say past 2-5 then all im doing is giving what i took to be fair to others and as no actual money was exchanged in hands or that can be proved that you cant argue for commercial damages.
the fact they try and say that is funny as just having an ip addy is not anywhere near gonna be enough to prove commercial infringement
thats making money like selling dvdrs or some such even a judge will get on that quick....no money = 5000 max and for a few movies per case they are gonna be lucky to get 100 per movie
up to the max
not worth it in lawyers fees alone....they want to try and prove commercial then take time in court and prove someone made money off your stuff if they didn't and you cant prove it....i'd argue your slandering and defaming people whom are not counterfeiters and perhaps a BIG time class action versus these bums for that aspect of there legal gaming might be worth it

look up misrepresentation.slander and defamtion of character.
ITS one of the reasons hollywood should also stop calling people pirates....its not piracy i had no gun/sword and did no physical harm nor am counterfeiting as anyhting i would have in my possession looks nohting like what you buy in the store. ergo no labels proper not same case or inserts very easy to tell its not original.

id bring in a list of my computers parts costs and bandwidth costs as well as how little i downloaded versus that cost and show its not a winning proposal considering the lack of quality , there just isnt as much worth downloading any more any ways. they are sitting back on 150 years in usa and 80 in canada and putting out garbage filler.

if you were smart youd grab all the tools and stuff to make your own entertainment then just not bother wiht it no more. THE sec your all on vpns and encryption they will eventually ram through key liscensing as in you must give law enforcement the right and ability to look....ya lawful access BUT with a warrant so they just run your name and then spy by watching your key....if you use a bad key you get a charge....

if we don't start reversing this course that is where its going....

and what is a forensics company ? is that l33t speek for some jerks that are illegally spying/logging Canadian citizens without a private investigators liscnese and a warrant?

hrm

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:18:02 EDT

MJB posted : what about the other third party isp's - start.ca, acanac, distributel, acn inc.. etc, etc they affected as well

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:13:32 EDT

JMJimmy posted : Please excuse the double post but I wanted to be sure this was copied to Marc.

I just received another email from Teksavvy support which states:

If your IP address is on the list, please email support@teksavvy.com for a copy of your email, with full details.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:06:54 EDT

JMJimmy posted :

said by DoBoY:

Has anyone seen this? its an article about the software they used to track the accused

»torrentfreak.com/evidence-agains···-110824/

Seems this guardaley is not too too accurate.

I'm guessing they can only monitor public trackers...

Not only inaccurate in the methodology, but they operate a hunypot which amounts to authorization to copy parts of the file.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:06:25 EDT

funny posted :

said by Rickkins:

According to the portal, I'm not even a customer.... :(

shh thats a good thing LOL

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:05:25 EDT

funny posted : haha cant login page won't load and that's the account page no so ya everyone should login via this///

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:04:07 EDT

quidnunc posted : I didn't read about this before so I was a little confused about that email that told me to check myworld.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:15:58 EDT

DoBoY posted : Has anyone seen this? its an article about the software they used to track the accused

»torrentfreak.com/evidence-agains···-110824/

Seems this guardaley is not too too accurate.

I'm guessing they can only monitor public trackers...

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:40:18 EDT

Sears posted : JonF fixed, all is well, but perhaps in the future the password recovery should ask for the email address the user registered with and not the login.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:02:25 EDT

Sears posted : What is the portal login, I've registered ages ago and forgot.

The usual teksavvy email login doesn't seem to work for the password recovery option.

"We were unable to access your information. Please try again."

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 11:02:22 EDT

anon posted :

said by hind_sight :

Who cares about protecting your customers, when there is more money to be made in selling them out to the highest accuser.

This is already done by Bell, Videotron and Cogeco (maybe Distributel & ACN as well from the looks of it). It's a practice already being performed.

So the point and concern of peoples information being for sale is already moot since it's already done. Thing is, no customers from the above companies filed the complaint with PrivCom since an entire section of the act was not observed by these ISP's. It's a claim and ruling waiting to happen and there is a dollar figure attached to that.

It's the "action" of the ISP that people need to be aware of.

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:55:08 EDT

voxframe posted : Marc, is there any way to extend this to the reseller panels?

Also is there a way to check this for LAN connections? (We don't have a login for those if I'm right)

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:41:31 EDT

anon posted : Charging $200 per IP is a very bad idea.

You might think it will be a deterrent for the the infringement accusers.

On the other hand this would be a easy profit stream for other profit hungry ISPs.

Who cares about protecting your customers, when there is more money to be made in selling them out to the highest accuser.

Obviously I am not talking about Teksavvy. Other ISPs aren't nearly as trustworthy.

So just drop the idea. In the long run, this will end up hurting ISP subscribers more. :huh:

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:10:01 EDT

anon posted : So have all notices gone out then? Or should people still be watching for them?

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 09:13:37 EDT

MFido posted : Marc, on another discussion someone suggested that you should ask $100-$200 per IP requested by the troll as you are doing a lot of work to identify and provide them ... I think it is a good idea :)

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 09:09:10 EDT

Rickkins posted : Anybody wanna bet that the incumbents are in cahoots with these guys somehow.....

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 08:55:07 EDT

resa1983 posted :

said by El Anon :

Okay, I admit I don't follow the latest and greatest films, but I don't think I've ever heard of any of the films listed. Are these all B roll movies?

I think it's adult films?

The adult films are down in the US. I don't believe the Voltage pictures are anything more than just crappy movies nobody wanted to watch (they flopped), so Voltage is trying to now make money via copytrolling those crappy movies.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:32:40 EDT

anon posted :

Okay, I admit I don't follow the latest and greatest films, but I don't think I've ever heard of any of the films listed. Are these all B roll movies?

I think it's adult films?

Re: Copyright - are you affected?

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 22:57:42 EDT

Gimli posted : I dont have the time to read the entire claim that Marc posted, but I did scan through quickly....

I am not a lawyer, and I can see a ton of holes in their claim

Even better, Im sure that I saw them reference court cases for copyright infringement that even after obtaining IP adress information.... the plaintiff (trolls) lost... and then lost AGAIN on appeal.

what a waste of time and money.