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antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

Microsoft gobbles up AV ground

»reviews.cnet.com/8301-3667_7-575···-ground/

"Microsoft's free antivirus Security Essentials is now the top antivirus product in the world, and Windows XP continues its downward spiral, according to one report..."

slajoh01

join:2005-04-23

1 recommendation

The reason is because its FREE. Thats about it. Takes no brain surgeon to figure that out. There are other AV programs that do a better job for ur money.
If u want real security to protect ur assets and data then buy one thats reliable. And most commonly common sense....


poppster
Tell the truth and then run.
Premium
join:2003-12-23
Midwest
kudos:1
said by slajoh01:

There are other AV programs that do a better job for ur money.

not if its free.


trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

1 recommendation

I still think that paying for AV software is a better idea. I feel that it's only right for us to help contribute a little bit to putting food on the tables of those people who have to sit in the lab all day looking for new viruses.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | AOKP (The Android Open Kang Project)

steven s
Premium
join:2002-09-14
Dearborn, MI
We already did that when we purchased our Windows license.


goalieskates
Premium
join:2004-09-12
land of big
reply to antdude
Just because you have it doesn't mean you use it. It came on the box.

That "one report" seems mighty flawed.

Aranarth

join:2011-11-04
Stanwood, MI
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to poppster
said by poppster:

said by slajoh01:

There are other AV programs that do a better job for ur money.

not if its free.

Avast Free and AVG Free are far better AV than the MSSE.

But on the other hand at least you have SOMETHING installed with MSSE.

I expect MSSE to get better but to also have very long development times similar to their browsers. (Although they do seem to be picking up steam of late getting newer browsers out the door.)


ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1
quote:
Avast Free is a far better AV than the MSE.
fixed it for you...........AVG is garbage,every positive review you will ever read about it is bought and paid for by Grisoft.

The worst possible AVP you could ever install.

Even the decertified MSE is a better choice.
--
Sarcasm is the body’s natural defense against stupidity.

lorennerol
Premium
join:2003-10-29
Seattle, WA
reply to antdude
I can't remember the last time I saw ANY AV product prevent an infection; it's been years and I support a couple hundred PCs.

Why pay for something that doesn't work when you can get a different something that also doesn't work for free?


FreeBSD

@charter.com
reply to ZZZZZZZ
said by ZZZZZZZ:

fixed it for you...........AVG is garbage,every positive review you will ever read about it is bought and paid for by Grisoft.

The worst possible AVP you could ever install.

Even the decertified MSE is a better choice.

Consumer Reports rates AVG #2 over MSE #4. It does better job at network threats and scanning speed.

slajoh01

join:2005-04-23

1 recommendation

Ok, lets put it this way.

I definately would NOT recommend ANY FREE security solutions for any small or big businesses...Period.

But for an average "home Joe" PC user who doesnt care much about his or her data and only uses the machine to play games and entertainment stuff, then MSE would be fair enough to use. Its still better than having no AV protection at all. And of course, common sense goes along with it as well. And patching. And of course a router.


Woody79_00
I run Linux am I still a PC?
Premium
join:2004-07-08
united state

2 recommendations

MSE is not bad. Its not any better or worse then any other Anti-Virus Product out there....they all are pretty much the same, don't believe the tests....

AV software is not capable of protecting you anyways...and IMO today neither is layering (running multiple security products) because layering suffers from the same flaws AV software does....It can only stop known threats, behaviors, and heuristics(acts like a known malware) They don't control code execution.

Microsoft has offered for FREE everything a person needs to keep their PC pretty much virus free....but its up to the user to use them.

First Line of Defense should be Software Restriction Policies (Home users can use parental controls on Windows 7/8 which has Software Restriction Policies built in to bolster and control what can execute)

»www.mechbgon.com/srp/

Second Line of Defense should be EMET(Enhanced Mitigation Expereince Toolkit) Again this software is free and you install it, active it...turn on all protection so you have Green check marks, and then all your web facing apps, such as internet explorer, firefox, adobe, etc you simply opt them in with a file dialog browse box. Once you have all your apps opted in, reboot and your done. This forces those apps to run under DEP, SEHOP, and ASLR which should pretty much put the kabosh on any zero day exploits...if they even get past your SRP mind you.

Third Line of Defense should be patching all your software and any Anti-virus of your choice...even Free would be good enough....something like Threatfire even....would be more then enough.

with the setup above, "THE ONLY WAY" you could get infected is if you purposely right-clicked a file and ran it as an administrator on purpose....you would have to explicitly "right-click" the file or move that file to the Windows directory or Program Files directory...all going though UAC prompts to get infected.......

The setup above also works perfect for the wife or kids that don't know a lot about computers...keep the admin password a secret...they can do whatever they want with the PC...but nothing can be installed without admin approval....

I recommend Threatfire in place of the Anti Virus because in the "very very very very rare" event that a piece of malware never touches the hard drive and is 100% memory resident...SRP will not go off...since Threatfire is more of a behavior watcher and acts in some ways like a hybrid HIPS/IDS it has the best chance of alerting the user to such a piece of memory resident bad news...but malware that don't drop files on the hard drive are very rare in the wild.

Immunet can be used for free in corps...depending on the circumstances it could be very viable to not run any paid AV in a corporate network....may be better off setting up a free OSSEC HIDS server instead and distributing the cilents and keeping tabs on the reports....just saying....paid AV in terms of what you get for money paid out has become a very bad investment in recent years in the whole bang for buck scenario.


DownTheShore
Honoring The Captain
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:14
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
reply to antdude
said by antdude:

»reviews.cnet.com/8301-3667_7-575···-ground/

"Microsoft's free antivirus Security Essentials is now the top antivirus product in the world, and Windows XP continues its downward spiral, according to one report..."

That's probably because for people who don't know or don't care about computer security, it is probably the easiest software for their relatives/friends who are asked to set up their computer to put on it, knowing that it will auto-update and that since it's from Microsoft, the computer owner will much more likely allow any permission boxes that might come up.

When you know a person isn't going to bother to pay attention to renewing paid security software licenses, and you do want them to at least have a modicum of protection, you install the stuff that they will at least recognize and allow to operate on its own.
--
Patriotism is not waving a flag, it is living the ideals

I want to retire to the Isle of Sodor and ride the trains.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to antdude
Actually, Windows Defender is rather impressive. I started a thread here about it.
»Windows Defender network detection

I was impressed when I was rummaging about in a shared folder that resides on my XP computer and I was on my new Windows 8 computer. Windows Defender popped up the moment I started to look in one of the shared folders and Windows Defender said it had found a virus and was "cleaning" it. It was actually two files "suckme" and "dll.dll" which are POC's for a vulnerability that Microsoft patched some time ago. I keep the files because they are useful when testing a new AV. It found others (that I keep deliberately) also on the C drive on XP Pro (I have the entire drive shared for the moment to get files off it).

Anyhow, for a free AV to detect network files I think that's great. Avira free doesn't (unless the latest version which is incompatible with Windows 8 does) nor do most paid AV. Generally, you have to get a professional version of an AV for it to detect files in shared folders originating on another machine on the network. At least that is how it used to be, but I have not tested any AV in about a year so maybe that has changed ....but no one has replied to my thread to tell me if that is true.

Windows Defender did not clean the files nor did it quarantine them although it tried. It ended up telling me the files were malicious and I should delete them. I was still impressed.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

PX Eliezer7
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to Woody79_00
said by Woody79_00:

I recommend Threatfire in place of the Anti Virus....

Excellent point but ThreatFire is no longer available as a free product, nor a standalone product.

It's only available as part of PC Tools™ Internet Security....


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage

2 edits

2 recommendations

said by PX Eliezer7:

said by Woody79_00:

I recommend Threatfire in place of the Anti Virus....

Excellent point but ThreatFire is no longer available as a free product, nor a standalone product.

It's only available as part of PC Tools™ Internet Security....

Yep, that is because PC Tools is now PC Tools by Symantec. That is Symantec's specialty; buy a smaller company and discontinue its useful products.

At least (for now) they are still supporting and updating it if you already have a copy of it (but I don't expect that to continue for much longer).




FWIW, I run it on all of my Windows boxes (including my Windows server).

EDIT:
I just checked and the download link at »www.threatfire.com/updates/ is still working even though the download link at »www.threatfire.com/download/ has been deactivated. If anyone wants to get a copy of ThreatFire, better get it now before that backdoor download link is closed.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to ZZZZZZZ
said by ZZZZZZZ:

quote:
Avast Free is a far better AV than the MSE.
fixed it for you...........AVG is garbage,every positive review you will ever read about it is bought and paid for by Grisoft.

The worst possible AVP you could ever install.

Even the decertified MSE is a better choice.

I don't like Avast Free much either after the last release fiasco. I've been using MSE ever since with no issue. As for it not being "as good" as paid? Shrug. For someone like me that doesn't really engage in high risk web or software download behaviour it seems fine.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
I've been looking at AV for my new Win 8 computer. Blah! I don't want to spend $40 on CLOUD protection. And Avast scares me these days...Avira is not compatible with Windows 8 besides that I would not use it because of the sleazeware the free version forces on the user and it is cloud based now also.

I'm thinking seriously about NoVirusThanks EXE Radar Pro which is an anti executable that is being steadily developed and gets really good reviews at Wilders.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3

1 recommendation

said by Mele20:

I've been looking at AV for my new Win 8 computer.

I don't like to be an early adopter of OSs, so can't help you there.

PX Eliezer7
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
reply to NetFixer
Thanks for that TF download link.

I had forgotten than Symantec had bought PC Tools.


Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11
reply to NetFixer
said by NetFixer:

said by PX Eliezer7:

said by Woody79_00:

I recommend Threatfire in place of the Anti Virus....

Excellent point but ThreatFire is no longer available as a free product, nor a standalone product.

It's only available as part of PC Tools™ Internet Security....

Yep, that is because PC Tools is now PC Tools by Symantec. That is Symantec's specialty; buy a smaller company and discontinue its useful products.

At least (for now) they are still supporting and updating it if you already have a copy of it (but I don't expect that to continue for much longer).

FWIW, I run it on all of my Windows boxes (including my Windows server).

EDIT:
I just checked and the download link at »www.threatfire.com/updates/ is still working even though the download link at »www.threatfire.com/download/ has been deactivated. If anyone wants to get a copy of ThreatFire, better get it now before that backdoor download link is closed.



The free download version still works? I just clicked on the download link.
--
Remember that cool hidden "Graffiti Wall" here on BBR? After the name change I became the "owner", so to speak as it became: Dustyn's Wall »[Serious] RIP


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage

2 edits

1 recommendation

said by Dustyn:

The free download version still works? I just clicked on the download link.

I did a test download before I posted the url, and it is a valid ThreatFire 4.7 installer. It is not the latest release, but it will update to the latest release once you install it. At least it still did that today for me on a test PC...no guarantees what will happen tomorrow, or even an hour from now (I suspect that if/when Symantec detects that the installer file is still visible and being downloaded, they will kill that link, and possibly even kill new installs).

EDIT:
Oops, I just looked closer at the screen shot you posted, and you are talking about the download link on the »www.threatfire.com/download/ page, not the »www.threatfire.com/updates/ page.

When I tried the "Get Free" link on the »www.threatfire.com/download/ page, nothing happened (with either IE or SeaMonkey), and when I looked at the properties for that link, it did not point to anything other than that page (no executable):




The only download link that worked for me was the one on the »www.threatfire.com/updates/ page:




Apparently since they use Akamai for CDN, the pages you get will depend on your location, and some of the Akamai servers still have the executable on the "download" page.


C:\>dig www.threatfire.com
 
; <<>> DiG 9.9.2 <<>> www.threatfire.com
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 19773
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 4, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1
 
;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 1280
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;www.threatfire.com.            IN      A
 
;; ANSWER SECTION:
www.threatfire.com.     731     IN      CNAME   www.threatfire.com.edgesuite.net.
www.threatfire.com.edgesuite.net. 20531 IN CNAME a1726.g.akamai.net.
a1726.g.akamai.net.     3       IN      A       23.67.61.171
a1726.g.akamai.net.     3       IN      A       23.67.61.187
 
;; Query time: 15 msec
;; SERVER: 192.168.9.2#53(192.168.9.2)
;; WHEN: Mon Dec 24 11:42:53 2012
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 154
 


--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

3 edits

2 recommendations

reply to Woody79_00

Firefox running under EMET
said by Woody79_00:

Second Line of Defense should be EMET(Enhanced Mitigation Experience Toolkit).

+1

I'm running EMET 3.0 on WinXP SP3 and Win7 SP1 x64 systems. Setting it up is pretty easy and it comes with a chart at the end of the manual (PDF) showing how to configure most apps.

BTW EMET is not an A/V nor is it intended to replace one. It's surprising how many don't know of its existence and how little discussion there is of it in this forum.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
reply to PX Eliezer7
said by PX Eliezer7:

I had forgotten than Symantec had bought PC Tools.

Actually it is the second time that Symantec has bought PC Tools. They bought PC Tools the first time ~1994 when they bought Central Point Software (and they almost immediately shutdown that product because it made their Norton Utilities look wimpy in comparison).
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Tools_%···tware%29
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.


Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
said by NetFixer:

said by PX Eliezer7:

I had forgotten than Symantec had bought PC Tools.

Actually it is the second time that Symantec has bought PC Tools. They bought PC Tools the first time ~1994 when they bought Central Point Software (and they almost immediately shutdown that product because it made their Norton Utilities look wimpy in comparison). ...

Corporate arithmetic continues to puzzle me at times. Why buy out a small competitor (among many other similar competitors), just to extinguish their products? If they're small, they don't represent that big a chunk of market share to start with, only a part of which might even turn to your product if they disappear. I can understand a corporation's desire to buy out certain patents a little company might own to enhance their own portfolio or to bludgeon competitors with... but how much can those really be worth to justify buying the whole operation? Ditto for the idea of buying a little company for its "talent"... talent can (and does) simply migrate after-the-sale to somebody else. Yet, again and again, this same thing seems to happen... little outfits (with decent products) gobbled up and any trace of their products simply evaporating.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
said by Blackbird:

said by NetFixer:

said by PX Eliezer7:

I had forgotten than Symantec had bought PC Tools.

Actually it is the second time that Symantec has bought PC Tools. They bought PC Tools the first time ~1994 when they bought Central Point Software (and they almost immediately shutdown that product because it made their Norton Utilities look wimpy in comparison). ...

Corporate arithmetic continues to puzzle me at times. Why buy out a small competitor (among many other similar competitors), just to extinguish their products? If they're small, they don't represent that big a chunk of market share to start with, only a part of which might even turn to your product if they disappear. I can understand a corporation's desire to buy out certain patents a little company might own to enhance their own portfolio or to bludgeon competitors with... but how much can those really be worth to justify buying the whole operation? Ditto for the idea of buying a little company for its "talent"... talent can (and does) simply migrate after-the-sale to somebody else. Yet, again and again, this same thing seems to happen... little outfits (with decent products) gobbled up and any trace of their products simply evaporating.

In some cases, the product being bought (and discarded) is so superior to the purchaser's product, that they simply want to make it go away and stop making their own product look so bad.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.


MemphisPCGuy
Taking Care Business
Premium
join:2004-05-09
Memphis, TN
reply to antdude
While EMET 3.0 seems to have some stability issues on Windows 8, IE 10 does have EMET built in as well as a few additions not included in the Windows 7 version of IE10.

"Internet Explorer 10 introduces significant improvements in memory protections to help make vulnerabilities harder to exploit, helping to keep users safe on the sometimes-hostile Web. These improvements will increase the difficulty and development cost of exploits, making life harder for the bad guys.

While socially-engineered malware is the primary way that bad guys get their code onto victims’ computers, that is largely because browser vulnerabilities have become less common and harder to exploit over the last few years. However, as more and more users upgrade to IE9 and benefit from the protection provided by SmartScreen Filter, bad guys have a renewed interest in attacking the browser and its add-ons directly.

In today’s post, I explain the threat environment, survey the existing protections available in IE9, and explain how IE10’s new memory protections provide even more security."

READ THE COMPLETE BLOG ARTICLE »blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2012···e10.aspx
--
Onsite Computer Support in Memphis
»www.memphispcguy.com


Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to NetFixer
said by NetFixer:

In some cases, the product being bought (and discarded) is so superior to the purchaser's product, that they simply want to make it go away and stop making their own product look so bad.

But why not simply re-brand the bought product line to their own name and go on with that? If it's truly better, that should give them a real marketplace boost. Like I said, I can't figure out the arithmetic.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


MemphisPCGuy
Taking Care Business
Premium
join:2004-05-09
Memphis, TN
I always assumed they were after a certain tech or patent contained in the smaller company's product to include in their own.
--
Onsite Computer Support in Memphis
»www.memphispcguy.com


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage

3 edits
reply to Blackbird
said by Blackbird:

said by NetFixer:

In some cases, the product being bought (and discarded) is so superior to the purchaser's product, that they simply want to make it go away and stop making their own product look so bad.

But why not simply re-brand the bought product line to their own name and go on with that? If it's truly better, that should give them a real marketplace boost. Like I said, I can't figure out the arithmetic.

Actually that does sometimes happen, just not very often. I used to work for a mainframe computer manufacturer who bought out several other manufacturer's product lines, and did indeed rebrand them and use them as the basis for new products rather than simply taking a competitor's product off the market. Of course in the long run it did not help since the dinosaurs died anyway.

That same company (after they were bought by one of their European subsidiaries) also bought a well known manufacturer of quality PCs and PC based servers, as well as a manufacturer of mass produced low cost PCs. They started out rebranding the quality PCs, but eventually switched to the cheaper models and phased out the quality products. That did not turn out very well either. I saw what was happening and managed to leave with a small golden parachute a couple of years before that company totally disappeared.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.