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This is a sub-selection from Cities?


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to Telco

Re: Cities?

said by Telco:

said by TBBroadband:

he'll do what his shareholders and investors what. ROI!

No company keeps offering a product that doesn't make any money.

Which is precisely why more and more of the world is accelerating ahead of us, while we battle tired old and quite frankly disproved gut-feelings and theories.

Had we had this dogma 80 years ago, the majority of us would have have no sewage system, use gravel roads, and use wells for our water supply.

RWers must stop listening to the propaganda of Faux News and pundits on talk-radio and enter the 21st century. Until you do so, the rest of us are stuck here waiting.

So you are upset that we aren't a socilaist country and the government takes care of us? That is the way MOST of these other countries are doing it.

I would MUCH prefer not to have government involvement and things get built out however that may or may not be by private enterprise.

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
Yes, for some things, utilities for one (which internet is) the government would serve it's people well to provide.

Some things are simply too important and have to large a barrier of entry to rely on the greed soaked business world to provide.

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 recommendation

reply to ropeguru
We are a Socialist Country:

Did you PERSONALLY finance the cost of every road you drive on - No... Every American paid Taxes that AFFORDED YOU the right to have roads. = Socialized.

Did you PERSONALLY build the schools and OWN THEM that your children attend. No... Every American paid Taxes that AFFORDED YOU the rightt = Socialized.

Did you PERSONALLY Cover 100% of the Cost to build Power Grids (Tennessee Valley Authority, etc) to Give Electricity to rural America? No... Every American paid Taxes that AFFORDED YOU the right = Socialized.

Are you PERSONALLY funding 100% of the BILLIONS given to Hospitals and Medical Institutions to find cures for diseases - No... Every American paid Taxes that AFFORDED YOU the right to have world class cures = Socialized.

So on and so forth. Get off your soap box. Unless you are personally creating the infrastructure with your PRIVATE MONEY and OWN what you create, then you are benefiting off the labor of every other America. That's the whole definition of SOCIALIZED. You don't own what's built. The government does.

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to ropeguru
said by ropeguru:

I would MUCH prefer not to have government involvement and things get built out however that may or may not be by private enterprise.

Why, specifically?

Telco

join:2008-12-19
reply to ropeguru
said by ropeguru:

So you are upset that we aren't a socilaist country and the government takes care of us? That is the way MOST of these other countries are doing it.

I would MUCH prefer not to have government involvement and things get built out however that may or may not be by private enterprise.

First off, without Gov, small has-been cities (areas) like Richmond would be Detroit. You do realize that the bread and butter of the Richmond area comes from NOVA and Tidewater area - all Gov.

You guys seem to confuse Socialism for Communism and the defense jobs so many rightist rely on in red states. All socialism means is that the Governments own and operate 'crucial' industries; it does not "give you anything".

Like I said earlier, because of what "prefer" the rest of the nation who actually produces the GDP and pay the bills (Democrat States) are left waiting. If you guys are not interested in progressing, fine, but don't hold our nation back.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23

1 recommendation

reply to jc100
I live in Canada, where we have far more socialized policies than the US, and the official opposition party (which has occasionally polled in first place) is a socialist party.

I'm quite fine with that. And while many Canadians are not socialists (roughly two thirds vote for other parties), it was the founder of that socialist party, the father of our universal healthcare system, who was voted nationally as the "Greatest Canadian".

Few people in Canada, if any, understand the US phobias of concepts like socialism. We just don't get it. What's the big deal? What's so wrong about helping each other out in times of need? Americans act like it's some great evil that will sacrifice their firstborn son, while almost every other country in the world has embraced at least some socialist concepts such as universal healthcare.

I see some of the vitriolic debates that Americans get into on this and other subjects, and can't help but think to myself "What the heck is WRONG with you people? You've got bigger problems than this stuff."
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by Guspaz:

Few people in Canada, if any, understand the US phobias of concepts like socialism. We just don't get it. What's the big deal? What's so wrong about helping each other out in times of need?

How about because socialism FORCES you to help out thru taxes. It isn't your choice whether to help or not. A lot of Americans aren't comfortable with the FORCED part.
--
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.

Merry Christmas »goo.gl/Y2AEF

avgbowler6

join:2005-08-10
Venice, CA

1 recommendation

reply to jc100
Hmmm, I think you are wrong about cures for diseases.

Also, TVA is the only quasi government agency that wired one small area of the US. That was done by private business.

The 1st freeway in the US was built by a private company, and so were the railroads.

Again, get off of this socialist kick, and get your facts right.

Also, before the take over by private government, the education system was private. Oh yeah, are the best schools and univiersities public or private?


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

3 recommendations

reply to FFH5
said by FFH5:

How about because socialism FORCES you to help out thru taxes. It isn't your choice whether to help or not. A lot of Americans aren't comfortable with the FORCED part.

No, instead we are forced to pay for our "defense industry" and corporate welfare.

I would much rather dump both in favor of socialized medicine.

Telco

join:2008-12-19

1 edit
said by DataRiker:

said by FFH5:

How about because socialism FORCES you to help out thru taxes. It isn't your choice whether to help or not. A lot of Americans aren't comfortable with the FORCED part.

No, instead we are forced to pay for our "defense industry" and corporate welfare.

I would much rather dump both in favor of socialized medicine.

Bingo! This is something these guys fail to grasp or accept. I'm forced to waste my taxes paying for the $750 Billion Defense industry + the $4 Trillion just wasted on two wars.

They just don't seem to like my taxes being invested in building and growing America and Americans. Literally, as stated in our Constitution.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to FFH5
I didnt like my taxes bailing out banks but I had no choice but to still pay them. I think we should have let those greedy Motherfsckers burn. To Big to Fail is a load of bullshit from Faux News.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
Expand your moderator at work


jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
reply to Telco

Re: Cities?

said by Telco:

Bingo! This is something these guys fail to grasp or accept.

There's little collective consciousness in our culture. I chose to not have children yet help subsidize everyone else's without whining. It's good for my community and my society.

About those wars invasions & occupations, you've barely begun paying for them yet. Iraq was done on deficit.


Markie
Still Living Free

join:2009-07-11
Canada

1 recommendation

reply to jc100
And who owns the government? The people do. And all those "rights" you speak of look like privileges to me. Oh, and you were founded as a republic, and flourished as a free market capitalist society and you didn't really start to flush yourselves down the shitter until mentalities like yours tipped the balance of power from producers to the free shit army. Congrats you are winning, unfortunately the prize will have to be shared by all...oh wait that is just how you like it, fair with the loosers lumped in with the producers and ribbons for all.
--
»libertarian.on.ca/

Eek2121

join:2002-10-12
Newton, NJ
Reviews:
·FreedomPop
reply to FFH5
So move to a damn island somewhere, defend your island from me attacking you for your coconuts, and pay for yourself when you get cancer and need medical assistance. It annoys me how people like you have no grasp on reality. The world would not be where it is without some socialism. Our country was FOUNDED on it. If you don't like it, GET OUT. Your opinion is UNPOPULAR, Antarctica is waiting, MOVE THERE.
--
My beta Ruby on Rails tutorial site!
Expand your moderator at work

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to FFH5

Re: Cities?

said by FFH5:

said by Guspaz:

Few people in Canada, if any, understand the US phobias of concepts like socialism. We just don't get it. What's the big deal? What's so wrong about helping each other out in times of need?

How about because socialism FORCES you to help out thru taxes. It isn't your choice whether to help or not. A lot of Americans aren't comfortable with the FORCED part.

How about that many Americans are not comfortable with the FORCED part about paying taxes to kill people in far away lands? Where is your outrage there?

edit: Sorry, I didn't realize that had already been brought up when I posted, I am playing catch-up and didn't read ahead!


Kommie
Premium
join:2003-05-13
united state
kudos:3
reply to FFH5
I am not comfortable being forced to fund the military industrial complex through my taxes either.

Telco

join:2008-12-19
reply to jap
said by jap:

said by Telco:

Bingo! This is something these guys fail to grasp or accept.

There's little collective consciousness in our culture. I chose to not have children yet help subsidize everyone else's without whining. It's good for my community and my society.

About those wars invasions & occupations, you've barely begun paying for them yet. Iraq was done on deficit.

Preaching to the choir. Both of the wars were borrowed - $4 Trillion worth - and this was deliberately kept off the books. The interest alone required to pay these wars over 30 years will top an additional $4 Trillion - that's $8,000,000,000,000 that the 'deficit hawks' conveniently ignore.

The negative ROI for this sort of expenditure should land people in jail, it's that bad. Heck, $350 Billion could have payed off Greece's debt - entirely. $2 Trillion could have rebuilt and repaved every road in America. $140 Billion wired every house in America with FTTH. Another $1.5 Trillion to modernize all of our dilapidated and archaic infrastructure throughout america.

That works out to be just shy of $3.99 Trillion. Can you imagine what this sort of expenditure would have done for American and the world? We are taking about millions of new jobs, new businesses, and so forth.


PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
reply to DataRiker
said by DataRiker:

said by FFH5:

How about because socialism FORCES you to help out thru taxes. It isn't your choice whether to help or not. A lot of Americans aren't comfortable with the FORCED part.

No, instead we are forced to pay for our "defense industry" and corporate welfare.

I would much rather dump both in favor of socialized medicine.

I find myself inclined to agree.


facts matter

@qwest.net
reply to Kearnstd
Just thought I would point out, Fox news and most of the conservative talk hosts were adamantly AGAINST the bank bailout. "to big to fail" was a quote from the Obama administration, yet the bulk of these posts blame the conservatives for it. Sounds like you need to get your facts straight. You may be supporting the side you don,t believe in!

jc100

join:2002-04-10
reply to FFH5
So then please take a stand and don't use the roads, schools, hospitals, infrastructure, and all the other goodies brought to you courtesy of the few hundred million American Taxpayers. These services are provided with funds pooled into a universal pot and dolled out for X projects. You nor I neither own these "Public" entities. The government runs and controls all the above through funding (hospitals and research) or direct involvement.

Guess you best can get to living like the days of Little House on the Prairie.

jc100

join:2002-04-10
reply to Telco
But but but.. Think of all the jobs war creates... Surely, 4 Trillion lining the pockets of arms dealers and corporate America was worth the sacrifice... (sarcasm).

WhatNow
Premium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to facts matter
Yes but it was the Bush admin that did not want to regulate anything and allowed the housing finance bubble to grow and then pop. Most of the bailouts were already in progress before Obama was sworn in. That said I am for a real balanced budget every year. If a war is that important then pay for it as you go. In fact when they vote to go to war they vote to pay for it in a separate war tax. Don't wrap yourself in the flag if you are not willing to buy the flag.

Back to the subject at hand. It is alright for the government to help fund the fiber builds but they should treated like a private cable company. Taxes should not be charged to people that do not use the service. Like water if you do not use it there is no cost to the individual homeowner. The government should just provide the fiber and let private content providers provide the content.

cpuoverck

join:2012-09-29
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME

1 recommendation

reply to DataRiker
said by DataRiker:

said by FFH5:

How about because socialism FORCES you to help out thru taxes. It isn't your choice whether to help or not. A lot of Americans aren't comfortable with the FORCED part.

No, instead we are forced to pay for our "defense industry" and corporate welfare.

I would much rather dump both in favor of socialized medicine.

Why not just dump all three and live life as free people?

Why should we be willing slaves to our government? It should be rewarding us for not needing government services, if there was any justic!

You can not truly be free if the government is forcing you to buy curly fry light bulbs and low flow toilets.

Our U. S. government was intended to allow us to live as free people. The rights we had 100 years ago have been gradually stolen by plutocrats and politicians, working together, to concentrate power over the way people live, always with the excuse of 'good intentions' to the point that they have been able to take control of the peoples health care, something the Constitution never gave them the right to do. We are 51 governments in the United States, but one is stealing the power of the 50, as the Tenth Amendment was supposed to prevent.

We are well on the 'Road to Serfdom' thanks to liberals and crapatlists. All this while liberals take the decision about what kind of sack I use to bring my groceries home in. I guess that taking away peoples free choices in order to make them happy is what liberalism really about.

I don't like it, and I guess that makes me a bad person. Sorry but go to hell is the only proper response to this kind of liberal.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

1 edit
said by cpuoverck:

Why not just dump all three and live life as free people?

Because not living with looming bankruptcy for even minor illness gives more freedom than you can possibly imagine.

As a libertarian I have made a long pondered decision to bend my beliefs when it comes to healthcare for practical realities.

First, big business and big government already control healthcare, thus the neocon position you spout is extremely disingenuous and outright stupid.

Secondly, the liberal position on healthcare is equally weak. If your going to fight for universal health care, go on and do it. Completely socialize it and be done with it.

What really changed my mind was living in a country with socialized medicine, and how much more advanced and accessible it was than our own. The US may be a research leader in medicine, but it is a pathetic straggler when it comes to giving healthcare

TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26
Springfield, MO
Reviews:
·Mediacom
reply to Guspaz
If you want to understand the US's phobia of socialism, read up on your history of the First and Second Red Scares in US history. Pay special attention to the McArthy era, which was during the Second Red Scare. The Right Wing of American politics has managed to completely brainwash Americans into believing that socialism = communism. Plus, since socialism is a threat to the American form of capitalism, the men in charge want to keep the citizenry ignorant and brainwashed, all in the name of profit.

TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26
Springfield, MO
Reviews:
·Mediacom
reply to DataRiker
said by DataRiker:

What really changed my mind was living in a country with socialized medicine, and how much more advanced and accessible it was than our own. The US may be a research leader in medicine, but it is a pathetic straggler when it comes to giving healthcare

Wow, it's amazing to see that socialized medicine worked so well in that country that it changed the mind of a libertarian.

TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26
Springfield, MO
Reviews:
·Mediacom
reply to Markie
Do you know what the country was like when 'producers' had all the power? Children worked in sweatshops. People worked all week, as many hours as the plants could force them to; 40 hour workweeks were nonexistent. Vacation? Hell no. Overtime? LOL. Safe working conditions? Hahahahaha. Living wage? Not if we can help it!

Is that how you'd rather our country work?

dra6o0n

join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON
reply to cpuoverck
Seriously?

Humans are beings that needs socialization and community, the idea of being 'free' is just a petty idea that everyone dreams up.

You are just a naive kid, who doesn't understand the complexity of this world.