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KeepOnRockin
Music Lover Forever
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Beaverton, OR
Reviews:
·Comcast

[iPhone] Woman tasered after trying to buy too many iPhones

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=xocxNw988g0


said by »www.wcvb.com/news/local/boston-n···dex.html :
EWTON, Mass. —

A local family says a language barrier may have resulted in police using a Taser on a woman after she tried to buy too many iPhones at a local mall. Police, however, say the incident isn't that clear cut.




Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1

There is such a thing as "buying too many Iphones"?
Really?
I'd think Apple would be happy to sell thousands of phones to a single customer, granted they'd have to be shipped to you, as I doubt the store carries that many at one time, normally.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.



pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3

There was a two per customer limit until December 4th. Apparently this Apple store manager didn't get the memo that the policy was relaxed.

What OP failed to mention, according to the linked story, is the the store refused to sell her any phones because she had purchased two the prior week. After she observed other customers apparently leaving with more than two phones, she took a picture. That's when the manager asked her to leave and called the cops.

The issue between her and the store is a private one and I really don't care. The problem I see here is overzealous suburban douchebag cops using a taser on a small 48 year old woman.



Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1

quote:
The problem I see here is overzealous suburban douchebag cops using a taser on a small 48 year old woman.

We agree on this.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


haroldo

join:2004-01-16
united state
kudos:1
reply to KeepOnRockin

Maybe we can/should taser trolls?



haroldo

join:2004-01-16
united state
kudos:1

2 edits
reply to Snakeoil

said by Snakeoil:

quote:
The problem I see here is overzealous suburban douchebag cops using a taser on a small 48 year old woman.

We agree on this.

As the Rodney King affair showed, cutting a small part of a video and releasing it to the public can be very misleading. I'm not defending nor accusing anyone, but unless we know what actions precipitated the Tasering, we can't judge.
Sure, she looks like (and probably is) a meek innocent woman, but no one knows (from watching the video) what really happened.
Everyone should have learned at a young age that police officers need to be respected. If an officer requests/demands a person to be calm, I don't care what language it's requested in...you listen. If a person continues in an aggressive or potentially violent manner (no matter how small, old or frail they might appear), they can pass a point where law enforcement officers need to escalate the situation.
Yeah, she's probably 100% innocent, but until you know what really happened...resisting arrest is resisting arrest in any language.
Jumping to conclusions can be dangerous

(if a frail woman old woman yelled "I have a bomb strapped to my chest" in a crowded shopping mall...would Tasering be justified?...we really don't know what happened)

Rojo

join:2009-04-14
New York, NY
kudos:1

"This really is a criminal trespass...issue." - cop.

How under any circumstance is trying to purchase an iPhone 'criminal'?
Why isn't the Apple employee charged with 'criminal' attempted eviction? Seems just as absurd.



haroldo

join:2004-01-16
united state
kudos:1

3 edits

said by Rojo:

...
How under any circumstance is trying to purchase an iPhone 'criminal'? .

IMHO she wasn't arrested for trying to purchase a phone. She was most likely arrested for agitated, aggressive disorderly behavior.
She was requested to leave the store and (probably) got violent
Who knows? Maybe she yelled out "Allahu Akbar" ... or "I'm going to kill you!"
No one has every been arrested for shopping.
Millions are arrested for disorderly conduct.

Again, we're jumping to conclusions.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to KeepOnRockin

Its obvious she was buying them to send back to China to sell on the black market...

Still no excuse for the tasering.



drslash
Goya Asma
Premium
join:2002-02-18
Marion, IA

1 recommendation

reply to Rojo

said by Rojo:

"This really is a criminal trespass...issue." - cop.

How under any circumstance is trying to purchase an iPhone 'criminal'?
Why isn't the Apple employee charged with 'criminal' attempted eviction? Seems just as absurd.

If she was asked to leave the store and did not then she is trespassing. It doesn't matter if she was in an Apple store, a Toys R Us, or a Starbucks and it doesn't matter if she was trying to buy 3 phones or 3000. She is trespassing if she was asked to leave and she did not comply. It doesn't matter if the reason for asking her to leave is absurd.
--
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--
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--
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--
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not quite right
I'm not cool enough to be a Mac person

join:2001-06-23
Puyallup, WA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to haroldo

said by haroldo:

said by Rojo:

...
How under any circumstance is trying to purchase an iPhone 'criminal'? .

IMHO she wasn't arrested for trying to purchase a phone. She was most likely arrested for agitated, aggressive disorderly behavior.
She was requested to leave the store and (probably) got violent
Who knows? Maybe she yelled out "Allahu Akbar" ... or "I'm going to kill you!"
No one has every been arrested for shopping.
Millions are arrested for disorderly conduct.

Again, we're jumping to conclusions.

haroldo is spot on ...
--
Not many people know this, but I happen to be quite famous...


haroldo

join:2004-01-16
united state
kudos:1

said by not quite right:

...
haroldo is spot on ...

I agree!


pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3
reply to haroldo

said by haroldo:

As the Rodney King affair showed, cutting a small part of a video and releasing it to the public can be very misleading. I'm not defending nor accusing anyone, but unless we know what actions precipitated the Tasering, we can't judge.
Sure, she looks like (and probably is) a meek innocent woman, but no one knows (from watching the video) what really happened.

In the video, the police chief issued a statement saying exactly what happened. If there had been mitigating circumstances bolstering his department's use of force, he would have added them there.
said by haroldo:


Everyone should have learned at a young age that police officers need to be respected. If an officer requests/demands a person to be calm, I don't care what language it's requested in...you listen. If a person continues in an aggressive or potentially violent manner (no matter how small, old or frail they might appear), they can pass a point where law enforcement officers need to escalate the situation.

That's not how it works at all. If you are sitting on a park bench minding your own business, a police office can't walk up, demand you leave, and taser you for not complying. You are only required to comply with a lawful order from a police officer. This isn't some dictatorship under martial law.
said by haroldo:


Yeah, she's probably 100% innocent, but until you know what really happened...resisting arrest is resisting arrest in any language.
Jumping to conclusions can be dangerous

..which is why you too should refrain from doing so. If the store, which is private property, wanted her out, that's fine. They can call the cops and they can remove her, bodily if needed. Only when she attempts to re-enter the store does it become criminal trespass.
said by haroldo:

(if a frail woman old woman yelled "I have a bomb strapped to my chest" in a crowded shopping mall...would Tasering be justified?...we really don't know what happened)

Obviously you have no clue how a taser works. First, the electrodes must penetrate anything the subject is wearing to contact the skin on center mass to be effective. In this situation it would be probably be foolish to taser someone with the risk of an electrical arc causing detonation.

Many moons ago, in another life, I worked in law enforcement. Right around the time the Taser was introduced. The intended use was an alternative to lethal force. That is, it should only be used in the same circumstances a gun would be. The idea was to reduce* subject death rate in lethal force situations -- NOT FOR CROWD CONTROL, SUBJECT COMPLIANCE, OR INTIMIDATION. Each jurisdiction has its own use of force policy, but the bottom line is lethal force must only be used to protect your life, or the life of another. It does not appear anyone's life was in danger here.

*I say reduce because the Taser was always known to come with a slight risk of death, particularly to those with cardiovascular health concerns.


haroldo

join:2004-01-16
united state
kudos:1

In the video, the police chief issued a statement saying exactly what happened. If there had been mitigating circumstances bolstering his department's use of force, he would have added them there.

>This was a 90 second cut and paste by the media, this wasn't the result of an official investigation. I'm not familiar with any media outlets that make sure they know the full story before airing a salacious story

That's not how it works at all. If you are sitting on a park bench minding your own business, a police office can't walk up,...

>You know what I meant, no need to spin to the extreme. In the US, if you're extremely agitated or aggressive and an officer of the law asks you to calm down, ignoring him is done at your own peril. This was clearly not an innocent bystander tasered for no reason, just because an officer wanted to have some fun…IMHO

..which is why you too should refrain from doing so. If the store, which is private property, wanted her out, that's fine. They can call the cops and they can remove her, bodily if needed. Only when she attempts to re-enter the store does it become criminal trespass.

>Nowhere in the video did anyone mention she was peaceful and minding her own business. I don't know what happened, but I have to assume the officer had probably cause (unless he's a sadistic maniac)...I'd bet she made a hysterical scene...

Obviously you have no clue how a taser works. First, the electrodes must penetrate anything the subject is wearing to contact the skin on center mass to be effective. In this situation it would be probably be foolish to taser someone with the risk of an electrical arc causing detonation.

>Come on, I'm just providing a hypothetical scenario


robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

said by haroldo:

You know what I meant, no need to spin to the extreme.

How could anyone get as extreme as what you already posted?

said by haroldo:

Who knows? Maybe she yelled out "Allahu Akbar" ... or "I'm going to kill you!"



haroldo

join:2004-01-16
united state
kudos:1

Ouch! LOL

guilty as charged!

I was speaking in broad brushes...obviously... taking a bit of poetic license (maybe too much???).
The point is still valid...no one here knows how agitated and aggressive she became...I refuse to believe cops would shoot a taser just for the fun of it....I believe there must have been a reason why officer felt it a necessary action.



fonzbear2000
Premium
join:2005-08-09
Saint Paul, MN
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

Its obvious she was buying them to send back to China to sell on the black market...

Still no excuse for the tasering.

Once she has purchased the phones, she has any right to do whatever she wants with them. If I want to go and buy 50 unlocked iPhones, I should be able too! Why should Apple care what I do with them after I buy them? Because she's Chinese, they think she's going to sell them on the black market? That's complete racial discrimination! I hope she sues Apple big time!
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HiVolt
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Toronto, ON
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Reviews:
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said by fonzbear2000:

Once she has purchased the phones, she has any right to do whatever she wants with them. If I want to go and buy 50 unlocked iPhones, I should be able too! Why should Apple care what I do with them after I buy them? Because she's Chinese, they think she's going to sell them on the black market? That's complete racial discrimination! I hope she sues Apple big time!

You can't send them to countries with an economic sanctions, such as Iran, Cuba, etc...

And it's not racism, its realism, especially if you dont know how huge the black market is in China for Apple stuff. And Apple only officially released the iPhone5 in China this past week, and you have to be picked in a lottery in order to get one...
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haroldo

join:2004-01-16
united state
kudos:1

4 edits
reply to fonzbear2000

said by fonzbear2000:

...That's complete racial discrimination! I hope she sues Apple big time!

I find it offensive that people throw the "race card" at every opportunity.
That was a completely unsubstantiated allegation. It's one thing for political opportunists to throw the card, it's part of their playbook, it's another to toss it in here.
Racial bigotry doesn't appear to be the case here (although we do not have all the facts).
What support do you have for this? Did officer or employees hurl racial epithets?
It doesn't matter if it's Apple, Tiffanys or Taco Bell, if a customer is acting unruly and store personnel ask the person to leave... if they refuse, escalate the situation and create a public nuisance, store can and should call law enforcement.
I seriously doubt the employee called the police and said "hey, I have a _____ (fill in the blank) woman here...she refuses to leave ... bring a SWAT team and let's have some fun!"
Leave the sleazy race card out of this discussion.

jeckler

join:2005-04-11
Mesa, AZ
reply to KeepOnRockin

From the print story...

quote:
The policy continues, "The weapon is a level of force normally required to overcome passive, defensive, or offensive resistance that is intended as an act of overt aggression toward the officer where an individual refuses to comply with verbal instructions."
You lay down, you can be tasered, you attack, you can be tasered, you defend yourself from being tasered (a natural response IMO), you can be tasered.
Can't win.
Expand your moderator at work


not quite right
I'm not cool enough to be a Mac person

join:2001-06-23
Puyallup, WA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Comcast
reply to jeckler

Re: [iPhone] Woman tasered after trying to buy too many iPhones

said by jeckler:

From the print story...

quote:
The policy continues, "The weapon is a level of force normally required to overcome passive, defensive, or offensive resistance that is intended as an act of overt aggression toward the officer where an individual refuses to comply with verbal instructions."
You lay down, you can be tasered, you attack, you can be tasered, you defend yourself from being tasered (a natural response IMO), you can be tasered.
Can't win.

How about not putting yourself in the position to be tazed?
Think about it, you have to be seriously breaking company policy for a retailer to refuse to take your money, and show you the door.
--
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not

@comcast.net

Maybe she shouldn't have said who they were for. It's XMas time... who cares who it's for. They don't usually ask, but if they do, they're XMas presents for my family and friends. And no, you may not ask further details as it's a breach of my privacy and the info is confidential.

Apple does not have the right to question you about your private affairs. However, you have to be smart enough to keep your mouth shut and know how to respond in a calm and normal manner. Act a fool and you'll be treated like a fool.



Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1

1 recommendation

She shouldn't have to explain jack squat, they should be happy people are BUYING the shit to begin with.



fonzbear2000
Premium
join:2005-08-09
Saint Paul, MN
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

said by fonzbear2000:

Once she has purchased the phones, she has any right to do whatever she wants with them. If I want to go and buy 50 unlocked iPhones, I should be able too! Why should Apple care what I do with them after I buy them? Because she's Chinese, they think she's going to sell them on the black market? That's complete racial discrimination! I hope she sues Apple big time!

You can't send them to countries with an economic sanctions, such as Iran, Cuba, etc...

And it's not racism, its realism, especially if you dont know how huge the black market is in China for Apple stuff. And Apple only officially released the iPhone5 in China this past week, and you have to be picked in a lottery in order to get one...

Sure you can't, but why should Apple care what she does with them AFTER she has bought them?

It's racism. Because she's Chinese, Apple automatically assumes she's going to send them to China which makes Apple racist.
--
»A pretty good alernative to bit torrent and newsgroups


haroldo

join:2004-01-16
united state
kudos:1

1 edit

1 recommendation

said by fonzbear2000:

...
It's racism. Because she's Chinese, Apple automatically assumes she's going to send them to China which makes Apple racist.

(two can play that game)...It's racism, because she's Chinese you automatically assumed she was denied and ultimately arrested based on her race (not her activities).

Is it possible she was unruly, disruptive and a public nuisance?

I'm okay if this post gets hey modded and removed


NOCMan
MacChatter
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

1 recommendation

reply to haroldo

Yeah and 10 years ago they would of just manhandled her down, today cops use tasers as cattle sticks to force compliance.


gateguy
Premium
join:2001-02-12
Reisterstown, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to haroldo

said by haroldo:

She was requested to leave the store

In English, the report says that she only speaks Chinese. So, how is she supposed to be able to understand the "peace officers" request.

Imagine you visit France (or some other country where YOU dont know the language) and the police start talking to you. Then you get tazered for not complying.
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Time for a new message.


haroldo

join:2004-01-16
united state
kudos:1

said by gateguy:

said by haroldo:

She was requested to leave the store

In English, the report says that she only speaks Chinese. So, how is she supposed to be able to understand the "peace officers" request.

Imagine you visit France (or some other country where YOU dont know the language) and the police start talking to you. Then you get tazered for not complying.

give me a break. You're telling me that if an armed and uniformed officer of the law approaches you...after an altercation and a problem you had with a merchant...and you didn't understand the native language, you won't be able to understand their gestures and request?
I don't speak Russian, but if i were in Moscow and police officer was called as a result of my behavior and gestured to me, you bet your arse that I'd remain calm and do what ever I could to comply.
I know where all being theoretical here, but do you really believe there is one grown woman on the face of the planet who doesn't understand what a police uniform in a civil society represents?
Really?

gateguy
Premium
join:2001-02-12
Reisterstown, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

You are making the assumption she understood that it was an altercation.

You are making the assumption she understood that she was being asked to leave.

You are making the assumption the "peace officer" was not overly aggressive. You know the type, do what I say now or else.

You are making quite a few assumptions.

Per the video, she does not speak English.

And yes I do not believe there is one grown woman on the face of the planet who doesn't understand what a police uniform in a civil society represents?

But what the officer represents and what he is trying to communicate are two very different things.
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Time for a new message.