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cooperaaaron

join:2004-04-10
Joliet, IL

Come and get me....

I have nothing to hide.... They are wasting their time and OUR money on this stuff....

But, otherwise, how do you catch terrorists using the internets ?


ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

1 recommendation

So you have nothing to hide? OK then, please post the following information here:

Your phone call history for the past year.
Your Netflix history for the past year.
All online purchases you've made for the past year, both for yourself and others.
Any books you've bought, either locally or online, for the past year.
Your friend lists for any social networks you belong to.
All e-mails you've sent and received in the last year.
Your browser's history.
Your browser's bookmarks.
The name and address of your employer, and the position you hold there.
Any trips you've taken over the past year, including destinations, modes of travel, reason for going, and the names of anyone who accompanied you.
Your credit card statements for the past year.
Last year's tax return.
The names and addresses of any organizations you've donated money to or performed paid or unpaid work for in the past year.

That's enough for now. I'll let you know if you need to post more.

Since you have nothing to hide, I don't think you'll have any problem posting that info. Then we can determine if you're as innocent as you claim to be.


The Antihero

join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
reply to cooperaaaron

Everyone has something to hide. We're all guilty of something if you look hard enough.


elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to ISurfTooMuch

said by ISurfTooMuch:

So you have nothing to hide? OK then, please post the following information here:

Your phone call history for the past year.
...
Your credit card statements for the past year.
Last year's tax return.
The names and addresses of any organizations you've donated money to or performed paid or unpaid work for in the past year.

Since you have nothing to hide, I don't think you'll have any problem posting that info. Then we can determine if you're as innocent as you claim to be.

None of what you've listed would bother me if it were made public - our personal lives are sufficiently ordinary and disinteresting when it comes to matters of criminality and moral standards.

But our society continued to evolve towards a police state. We continue to criminalize or at least stigmatize ordinary behaviors, like ordering a Big Gulp, or thanks to Mr. Roberts, not buying health insurance.

What I might not need to hide today, could very well become tomorrow's prior offense.

What if we add to your list, my dietary consumption for 2012, including the source countries of my organic-approved foods (gotta count the carbon factor for the air freight), my laundry methods (credits for solar drying), cradle-to-grave recycling record, or a favorite not yet considered on this forum - overuse of "public" spectrum?

The people that make up rules to empower themselves will always find new reasons to punish and tax us all, unless we stop them. Unfortunately, the majority public are sheep, more than willing to surrender their sovereignty (and mine) for convenience and bribes.

MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
reply to ISurfTooMuch

said by ISurfTooMuch:

Since you have nothing to hide, I don't think you'll have any problem posting that info. Then we can determine if you're as innocent as you claim to be.

Someone always trots this out. Sigh.

It's like saying that if I don't mind if the police search my house, then I shouldn't mind giving you my address, door key, and alarm code.

Not a valid inference.

ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

Sure it is. Do you think that these government agencies are any more responsible to you than I would be? Not only that, but, even if you were to trust the people who would get your info now, you have absolutely no idea nor control over who will be able to access it in the future. You're also operating under the assumption that the people who can access this information have your best interests at heart, an assumption that is impossible to make. People are people, with all the character flaws that come along with that, and some of them are downright dishonest. If you need evidence of that, look at the involvement of police officers in the News Corp. phone-hacking scandal in the UK.

And finally, your response has proved my point. You may trust the government to have unfettered access to this info, yet you don't trust me with it. Fair enough, but not only don't I trust you with my info, but I also don't trust the government with it. We have a legitimate difference of opinion that we are hashing out right here in the open. So tell me, why do these unnamed government officials feel the need to decide this behind closed doors and away from public debate?

In short, what does the government have to hide?


ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
reply to elray

Exactly. While I might disagree with you about the environmental angle, there's really no way to know what will be politically unpopular in the future. The more information that an entity can collect, the more likely it will be that someone will use it to go on a fishing expedition. And it isn't always even the feds you need to worry about. Local politics can be downright vicious, and it isn't unheard of for some local official to use the local cops to get information on an opponent. Maybe the mayor doesn't like you, so he calls someone he knows and trusts in the local PD to dig up a little dirt on you, perhaps looking into the kind of movies you like to watch. After all, that information could be quite valuable in a conservative area. Oh, you won't be charged with a crime, but that list might just mysteriously appear and get passed around. Who did it? You'll probably never find out, but your political aspirations could be ruined.


NOVA_UAV_Guy
Premium
join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to cooperaaaron

said by cooperaaaron:

But, otherwise, how do you catch terrorists using the internets ?

Why do we need to bother? Quite frankly, I'd accept the infinitely small risk that I'll be the victim of a terror attack if it puts a strong leash on government and its power to ignore the Bill of Rights.

We must accept that terrorism will always exist in this world, no matter what we do. Acknowledgement of this fact and acceptance of the truth that life itself is inherently risky and unfair is the first step toward regaining the control over your life and privacy that you shouldn't have lost in the first place.

MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
reply to ISurfTooMuch

said by ISurfTooMuch:

Sure it is. ....... Blah blah .....

In short, what does the government have to hide?

I get the freakin point, you don't trust the government.

Completely non responsive. Sorry.

I DON'T CARE if you trust the government or not.

Don't pretend that your "if you have nothing to hide, post all your personal info on the Internet" canard was not just destroyed by my post. And try to change the subject.

TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26
Springfield, MO
Reviews:
·Mediacom
reply to ISurfTooMuch

Wow. You just don't get it, do you?

We live in a country to where we're assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. We shouldn't have to prove that we're innocent. And we shouldn't have laws that assume we're guilty of something simply because we refuse to give up our privacy.


MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5

said by TheRogueX:

Wow. You just don't get it, do you?

We live in a country to where we're assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. We shouldn't have to prove that we're innocent. And we shouldn't have laws that assume we're guilty of something simply because we refuse to give up our privacy.

This is pretty much the key point right here.

Position A: (your position)

If the government looks at information about me with the goal of catching terrorists before they commit their deeds, they are invading my privacy and they are assuming I'm guilty of something. They should have to prove I'm guilty, or at least that there's probable cause, before looking at my information.

Position B: (my position)

Monitoring and correlating information about you, which you have put out there by your actions, is not "invading your privacy". It's the government trying to stop terrorist cells before they can act.

Doing a sweep of information and coming up with a list to check further is not "assuming guilt", it's simply coming up with a set of leads that should be further investigated. Probable cause and a warrant are not required since this is information generated from your public actions, not your "person, property, and effects".

There is really nothing new here, police have acted this way for hundreds of years. They use what information is available to come up with a list of suspects and then check them out. Doesn't mean they're "assuming your guilt" and "invading your privacy". They're just doing their job.