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to elwoodblues
Re: Sell the Gardiner Expressway - Adam Vaughnsaid by elwoodblues:The Star's unofficial choice for the next mayor, Adam Vaugn is saying the city should sell it to private interests and let them toll and maintain it. Yeah that's worked really well on the 407 where it almost cost me 10 bucks from the 401 to the next exit. It could work out very well for Adam Vaugn, he can get a cushy consulting gig after he retires from politics making millions a year for the company that buys it. The nice thing is, he wouldn't even have to disclose the income after the fact. Don't we have a great system up here? Get us in, and you're set for life. It's all legal too! |
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ErrorError
Anon
2012-Dec-13 10:15 pm
I personally dont like the concept of using Federal taxes for maintenance of roadways in this country (maybe Highway 1, but thats it). Provincial highways are the responsibilities of the province, and expressways serving major cities like the GTA is solely the responsibility of the city it serves. I.E. Why should tax money from BC be used to fix the mess in Toronto?
A city (or province) and its growth should be proportional, more people = more taxes = more robust infrastructure built using said taxes. If you build more than you need, you're gonna have a bad time down the road. Thats just poor planning, dont ask others to bail you out. |
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 Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON |
Gone
Premium Member
2012-Dec-13 10:23 pm
said by ErrorError :I personally dont like the concept of using Federal taxes for maintenance of roadways in this country (maybe Highway 1, but thats it) Um, you do know that the Trans-Canada Highway outside of the four western provinces has a number other than 1, right? The only highways that receive federal money - and it is only partial funding, as highways constitutionally are still the responsibilities of each province - are part of the National Highways System. More information is available at » www.tc.gc.ca/eng/policy/ ··· 2149.htm and a map of the highways that are part of that system is available here. The Gardiner Expressway is not part of the National Highway System. |
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to ErrorError
said by ErrorError : Provincial highways are the responsibilities of the province, and expressways serving major cities like the GTA is solely the responsibility of the city it serves. I.E. Why should tax money from BC be used to fix the mess in Toronto?
A very---forgive the pun---provincial attitude. The expressways in the GTA are carrying a great deal of national traffic, not just local commuters. You might argue differently about the specific case of the Gardiner, but you made the more general statement: [expressways serving major cities like the GTA is solely the responsibility of the city it serves]. That's not what having a country is all about. There is a national interest in supporting the flow of people and goods. It's also important in coping with natural disasters, and in national defence. That's why the US Interstates---which have been very successful overall for my country---were originally 90 percent funded with Federal gasoline tax revenues. And BTW the system is officially called “National System of Interstate and Defense Highways”. Low population states like Wyoming, and low population provinces like Saskatchewan, should not have to bear the total cost of carrying NATIONAL traffic through their borders. You can't get from one side of Canada to the other without going through Saskatchewan. But Saskatchewan has only 3 percent of the population. It is NOT an Ontario. Yet how is it to support good roads to carry national traffic east and west? Some burdens have to be shared. -------------------------------- Now, I would agree that The Gardiner should not be considered a National highway. But it is only an accident of history, and a stubborn failure to correct a mistake, that left it out of the Ontario provincial system. |
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Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON |
Gone
Premium Member
2012-Dec-14 12:06 am
All of Toronto's expressways, both built and unbuilt, were intended to be municipally-controlled and maintained extensions of the provincial freeways. The Gardiner was the municipal extension of the QEW. The Richview Expressway would have been the municipal extension of the 403. The DVP is the municipal extension of the 404. What is now Black Creek Drive would have been a full freeway and a municipal extension of Highway 400. The Spadina (now Allen Road) and Crosstown would have tied them all into each other.
Though, at least prior to 1997/98, the non-QEW portion of the Gardiner Expressway had the status of provincial connecting link - a municipal road that received occasional provincial funding in return for carrying a provincial highway number. Allen Road and the DVP were never so lucky.
Toronto wasn't the only one. Windsor has a municipal freeway (though it has bounced back and forth between provincial and municipal more times than I can count). Ottawa planned a bunch that were never built and eventually had a provincial freeway downloaded to them. Hamilton has two that were always planned to be municipal and they had planned three more that were never built. London has the first-leg-of-the-402-that-ended-up-never-being-a-part-of-the-402 that was downloaded to them in the early 90s and has plans for more municipal freeways. Niagara Falls has part of Highway 420 downloaded to Niagara Region. This is par for the course in Ontario. It's really nothing unusual. It is also my understanding that in Alberta Edmonton and Calgary maintain significant portions of the freeways that pass through their borders, too. |
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to PX Eliezer704
I have no problems with provinces like Sask. using federal funding for the trans Canada. National highway should be maintained by the nation, that I agree with (hence my highway 1 comment).
However, to use that money to build/ maintain provincial or municipal roadways does not benefit the remainder of the nation. i.e. The expressways in the GTA carry provincial traffic, and local commuters. Far away provinces like BC shouldn't have to pay for that as they dont benefit from the improvements of lets say, the Gardiner Expressway.
It all boils down to perspective. The ones who are getting their money taken is always going to say "why are we paying for your mistakes" and the ones who are taking the money are always going to say "its for the benefit for the country". Federal funds shouldn't be squandered on bailing out provincial/municipal screwups and could be spent in far better ways like health care, medical research, education etc.
Denial of federal funding for provincial/municipal projects would be the proper thing to do here. It forces the province and municipalities to make proper decisions. If the local government made bad decisions and screwed up (and the Gardiner Expressway is IMO a screwup), the two options are:
1. Raise taxes and cover the maintenance, you'd get unhappy campers as taxes went up.
2. Sell the roadway and wipe their hands clean of it, you'd still get unhappy campers as private roadways are tolled and expensive.
Either solution will accomplish the same goal, whoever screwed up is not getting re-elected (or fired).
Thats my view on the subject, but to each his own.
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Fair enough.  |
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 Pauly
join:2004-05-29
canada |
Pauly
Member
2012-Dec-14 8:35 am
i think conrad miller should have uploaded it to the province when he had a chance. the province handles their infastructure much better than a single municipality |
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said by Pauly:i think conrad miller should have uploaded it to the province when he had a chance. the province handles their infastructure much better than a single municipality
said by Pauly:i think conrad miller should have uploaded it to the province when he had a chance. the province handles their infastructure much better than a single municipality
He tried his best. That one cent campaign. So when he couldn't control his spending habit(mainly paying his Union worker buddies) he came up with Land transfer tax. Yey More money for union. Funny article in Star today. " Mayor Ford’s office kept in the dark on crumbling Gardiner" When a third chunk of concrete plummeted off the Gardiner Expressway this spring, making it apparent something was seriously wrong with the elevated highway, Mayor Rob Ford’s office ordered an emergency meeting with top city staff and offered a blank cheque to get the situation under control.
Public works chair Denzil Minnan-Wong says that, based on what they were being told, he and the mayor’s office had every reason to believe the expressway was safe. Documents released to the Star support his claim.
Neither Minnan-Wong nor the mayor’s office appear to have been sent the damaging engineer memos. The documents suggest the administration was more or less told the same thing as the public: There’s no cause for alarm, the situation is under control and concrete separating from a larger mass is not unusual.
Furthermore, documents show that despite these reassurances, the mayor’s office ordered extra precautions for public safety. |
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 elwoodbluesElwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in |
I read that at the vet, while not blaming him directly (for once) it didn't stop the commentators from blaming him for the mess the Gardiner is in.
For Toronto 500m is a huge chunk of money and IIRC that would represent a 500% tax increase just to cover that money.
Wouldn't stop the Star's choice for Mayor, Adam Vaughn, he could re-direct that money to the "arts" where they rent city buildings for $2/yr and never turn a profit.
For me, I'd rather see them STOP funding the wannabe artists and start fixing the problems with the city. The "arts community" wants funding to be at $25/per capita!!! or roughly $75m.
It's also time for upper level of governments to stop wasting my tax dollars on tax cuts for corporations and get down to the business of funding municipalities where the money is really needed. |
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IamGimli (banned)
Member
2012-Dec-17 1:40 pm
said by elwoodblues:For me, I'd rather see them STOP funding the wannabe artists and start fixing the problems with the city. The "arts community" wants funding to be at $25/per capita!!! or roughly $75m. Yeah but then what do you do with all the people who have no marketable skills, like Adam Vaughn? |
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MaynardKrebsWe did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17 |
to loosedobbs
said by loosedobbs:said by Pauly:i think conrad miller should have uploaded it to the province when he had a chance. the province handles their infastructure much better than a single municipality
said by Pauly:i think conrad miller should have uploaded it to the province when he had a chance. the province handles their infastructure much better than a single municipality
He tried his best. That one cent campaign. So when he couldn't control his spending habit(mainly paying his Union worker buddies) he came up with Land transfer tax. Yey More money for union. @loose bowelsdobbs Do you run a business? Do you like the fact that people have decent paying jobs to afford your goods & services? I thought not... on both counts. Sounds like you're a big fan of indentured servitude. |
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said by MaynardKrebs:said by loosedobbs:said by Pauly:i think conrad miller should have uploaded it to the province when he had a chance. the province handles their infastructure much better than a single municipality
said by Pauly:i think conrad miller should have uploaded it to the province when he had a chance. the province handles their infastructure much better than a single municipality
He tried his best. That one cent campaign. So when he couldn't control his spending habit(mainly paying his Union worker buddies) he came up with Land transfer tax. Yey More money for union. @loose bowelsdobbs Do you run a business? Do you like the fact that people have decent paying jobs to afford your goods & services? I thought not... on both counts. Sounds like you're a big fan of indentured servitude. You make no sense comrade. But continue. |
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