dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
3872
share rss forum feed


swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS
reply to rednekcowboy

Re: Andrews Wireless - Bans all usage of Streaming video?

said by rednekcowboy:

It's quite simple, if an ISP is so completely incapable of providing a speed they are selling, then they should not be allowed to sell that service.

I think users who do not understand how something works should not make incorrect statements...but I digress...

Are you going to cancel your public water service into your home since they could not possibly deliver water to everyone if we all turned on our taps?

Might as well cancel your electricity service as well as we see time and time again (especially during the summer) that demand outpaces supply at times of the day.

No ISP can give full speeds to all users if everyone maxed their connection at once in an area. Even more so with wireless ISPs but even DSl and cable is not immune.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by swintec:

Might as well cancel your electricity service as well as we see time and time again (especially during the summer) that demand outpaces supply at times of the day.

Probably not the best analogy. The electrical generation system in North America is designed to allow for peak demand by switching generation resources in and out of the grid when demand increases and decreases. The failure to do so is seen as a serious flaw in the generation system. The problem is that utilities have to be able to predict demand, and have elaborate models to do so. The imperfection in the models or lack of generation resources causes demand to outpace supply.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac

2 edits
said by DKS:

said by swintec:

Might as well cancel your electricity service as well as we see time and time again (especially during the summer) that demand outpaces supply at times of the day.

Probably not the best analogy. The electrical generation system in North America is designed to allow for peak demand by switching generation resources in and out of the grid when demand increases and decreases. The failure to do so is seen as a serious flaw in the generation system. The problem is that utilities have to be able to predict demand, and have elaborate models to do so. The imperfection in the models or lack of generation resources causes demand to outpace supply.

Not only that but public utilities is a whole different ball of wax altogether and cannot be compared to a privately run organization selling a service/product to the general public for profit Doing so is just idiotic.

If you want to use an analogy, I offered 2 on the first page that draw a direct correlation, though I notice every one that is objecting to my statements won't touch those with a 10ft pole!

Please keep in mind, I understand perfectly how it works today and have demonstrated that. I do not agree with it. It's kind of like selling phantom stocks that don't exist to boost a market share. That is unacceptable so what I don't understand is why this isn't. If a company doesn't have the product to sell, they shouldn't be allowed to sell it, that's just logical/common sense.

Again, you wouldn't walk into McDonalds, pay for a Big Mac and walk away with a cheeseburger, being told that's all you can have because you ate too many big macs today and while you paid for a big mac, they have to think of everyone else who comes into the restaurant who want big macs so a cheeseburger is all you have.

Selling a product or service that you knowingly cannot provide is an extremely shady business practice and should be illegal to do so. In fact, it is illegal in any other line of business in the private sector. I can't sell you a product if I don't have it in my possession, that's called fraud.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by rednekcowboy:

If you want to use an analogy, I offered 2 on the first page that draw a direct correlation, though I notice every one that is objecting to my statements won't touch those with a 10ft pole!

This isn't similar to either analogy you presented. To use gas and food, this is far closer to rationing.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to rednekcowboy
said by rednekcowboy:

If you want to use an analogy, I offered 2 on the first page that draw a direct correlation, though I notice every one that is objecting to my statements won't touch those with a 10ft pole!

Your gasoline analogy isn't quite on, either. Gasoline is no longer "gasoline" but now includes blended ethanol. It's "fuel", not "gasoline".

As for the rest of your argument,there are significant technical considerations such as distance from the CO and line quality which have a huge impact on DSL speed. It is truly "up to",depending on any number of variables.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
said by DKS:

said by rednekcowboy:

If you want to use an analogy, I offered 2 on the first page that draw a direct correlation, though I notice every one that is objecting to my statements won't touch those with a 10ft pole!

Your gasoline analogy isn't quite on, either. Gasoline is no longer "gasoline" but now includes blended ethanol. It's "fuel", not "gasoline".

As for the rest of your argument,there are significant technical considerations such as distance from the CO and line quality which have a huge impact on DSL speed. It is truly "up to",depending on any number of variables.

I'm not talking about those factors, I'm talking about the use of traffic shaping.

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08

3 edits
said by rednekcowboy:

said by DKS:

said by rednekcowboy:

If you want to use an analogy, I offered 2 on the first page that draw a direct correlation, though I notice every one that is objecting to my statements won't touch those with a 10ft pole!

Your gasoline analogy isn't quite on, either. Gasoline is no longer "gasoline" but now includes blended ethanol. It's "fuel", not "gasoline".

As for the rest of your argument,there are significant technical considerations such as distance from the CO and line quality which have a huge impact on DSL speed. It is truly "up to",depending on any number of variables.

I'm not talking about those factors, I'm talking about the use of traffic shaping.

I already stated multiple times I DO NOT TRAFFIC SHAPE.

Changing the rate limiting is not traffic shaping in any way shape or form I am not discriminating on specific types of traffic.

edit: The hydro and water analogy are the only close to right ones here. I am NOT selling a physical product you can hold or consume and the only thing that runs out if I failed to keep things in check is the capacity. (And because I have this policy and don't oversubscribe I don't have capacity problems)

edit: Redneckcowboy I guess you think since teksavvy puts about 1000 users on each AGAS that has a gigabit total. (leaving 1 megabit per person) that this is unacceptable too ?.

E-box does exactly the same thing so does every provider in the world.


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
said by OHSrob:

I already stated multiple times I DO NOT TRAFFIC SHAPE.

Changing the rate limiting is not traffic shaping in any way shape or form I am not discriminating on specific types of traffic.

edit: The hydro and water analogy are the only close to right ones here. I am NOT selling a physical product you can hold or consume and it does NOT run out.

That wasn't directed to you Rob, however you are selling a consumable product, much like "fuel" and limiting bandwidth in and of itself is traffic shaping, whether or not you choose to call it that is up to you. The very nature of the "necessity" of you doing this (according to you) also shows that other users will be affected if you don't do this, so it technically also does "run out" as you put it.

Again, the hydro and water are public, government run organizations and you cannot compare that to a privately run business. The two analogies I provided correlate exactly, whether or not you chose to answer them or decide to twist it around in another shape or form, is up to you.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by rednekcowboy:

The two analogies I provided correlate exactly

No they don't.


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
said by bt:

said by rednekcowboy:

The two analogies I provided correlate exactly

No they don't.

Wow, that's informative!


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to rednekcowboy
Wow - the tone and direction of your posts is strangely familar... Did you used to have another handle on here?

You really remind me of someone.


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
said by LazMan:

Wow - the tone and direction of your posts is strangely familar... Did you used to have another handle on here?

You really remind me of someone.

Nope, only handle I've ever had. Whomever I remind you of sounds like one smart dude though!


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
said by rednekcowboy:

Whomever I remind you of sounds like one smart dude though!

Not really, no...


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
said by LazMan:

said by rednekcowboy:

Whomever I remind you of sounds like one smart dude though!

Not really, no...

Well you know what they say--opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one! lol


Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5
said by rednekcowboy:

Well you know what they say--opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one! lol

I really gotta give props to a guy whose stridency appears utterly immune to repeated notions that he simply doesn't understand the subject material.


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
said by Steve:

said by rednekcowboy:

Well you know what they say--opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one! lol

I really gotta give props to a guy whose stridency appears utterly immune to repeated notions that he simply doesn't understand the subject material.

Oh but there is a difference between understanding the subject and agrreeing/disagreeing with the way things are.

I understand the subject matter, I just think that the "status quo" is fundamentally flawed and completely wrong.


LiQuiD
BSD geek
Premium
join:2002-08-08
Anjou, QC
said by rednekcowboy:

said by Steve:

said by rednekcowboy:

Well you know what they say--opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one! lol

I really gotta give props to a guy whose stridency appears utterly immune to repeated notions that he simply doesn't understand the subject material.

Oh but there is a difference between understanding the subject and agrreeing/disagreeing with the way things are.

I understand the subject matter, I just think that the "status quo" is fundamentally flawed and completely wrong.

You made me LOL. Thanks
--
Windows is the virus. Linux is the vaccine, FreeBSD is the CURE


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to rednekcowboy
said by rednekcowboy:

however you are selling a consumable product,

Can you explain how "electrons" or "photons" are consumable? With an explanation of the science involved, if possible.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to LazMan
said by LazMan:

Wow - the tone and direction of your posts is strangely familar... Did you used to have another handle on here?

You really remind me of someone.

You don't say!
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to rednekcowboy
said by rednekcowboy:

said by Steve:

said by rednekcowboy:

Well you know what they say--opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one! lol

I really gotta give props to a guy whose stridency appears utterly immune to repeated notions that he simply doesn't understand the subject material.

Oh but there is a difference between understanding the subject and agrreeing/disagreeing with the way things are.

I understand the subject matter, I just think that the "status quo" is fundamentally flawed and completely wrong.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."

»youtu.be/W8qcccZy03s

--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac

1 edit
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

said by rednekcowboy:

however you are selling a consumable product,

Can you explain how "electrons" or "photons" are consumable? With an explanation of the science involved, if possible.

Bandwidth is entirely consumable, much in the same way gasoline (or "fuel" if you would prefer) is consumable. Just because you don't ingest something doesn't mean you don't consume it.

To go one step further to illustrate this. I have a 500GB cap on my service. I can consume (or use) that entire 500GB in a couple of weeks, but then I will have to pay additional $$$'s per GB.

Though I believe you are being tongue and cheek about this....I will however say that just because one's ideas or thoughts may not be "mainstream," this does not mean that they are inherently wrong. In fact, I would argue that those defending traffic-shaping policies only do so because they have bought into the corporate BS that has been spread for years and are just a fraction behind on the more forward thinking, future that we now find ourselves where any decent ISP has realized that this archaic policy belongs in the past (mostly because they realize they can make more without it, but that's another matter. Customer backlash was another reason behind ditching it).


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."

»youtu.be/W8qcccZy03s

LOL


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to rednekcowboy
said by rednekcowboy:

said by DKS:

said by rednekcowboy:

however you are selling a consumable product,

Can you explain how "electrons" or "photons" are consumable? With an explanation of the science involved, if possible.

Bandwidth is entirely consumable, much in the same way gasoline (or "fuel" if you would prefer) is consumable. Just because you don't ingest something doesn't mean you don't consume it.

Can I hear your explanation for perpetual motion? BTW, I have a bottle of electrons and another of photons here. Never consumed. Good price, too.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
said by DKS:

Can I hear your explanation for perpetual motion? BTW, I have a bottle of electrons and another of photons here. Never consumed. Good price, too.

Those are stale, old electrons and photons that have been sitting on a shelf too long. The photons no longer travel at full speed, so they're sub prime. Go peddle your junk sub atomic particles somewhere else!
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by HeadSpinning:

said by DKS:

Can I hear your explanation for perpetual motion? BTW, I have a bottle of electrons and another of photons here. Never consumed. Good price, too.

Those are stale, old electrons and photons that have been sitting on a shelf too long. The photons no longer travel at full speed, so they're sub prime. Go peddle your junk sub atomic particles somewhere else!

The Best Before date on the bottles reads 29/02/2013!
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5
said by DKS:

The Best Before date on the bottles reads 29/02/2013!

Duh: there's no month 29.

This is the second idiot in this thread

*snicker*


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
said by Steve:

said by DKS:

The Best Before date on the bottles reads 29/02/2013!

Duh: there's no month 29.

This is the second idiot in this thread

*snicker*

My sentiments exactly!


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Steve
said by Steve:

said by DKS:

The Best Before date on the bottles reads 29/02/2013!

Duh: there's no month 29.

This is the second idiot in this thread

*snicker*

Ah. You caught the reference. Wanna buy a bottle of electron or photons cheap?
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to LazMan
said by LazMan:

Every ISP - and allow me to reiterate EVERY - does some form of over subscription. That's just the way it's done. Goes back to the days of dial up, even... The goal is to have enough bandwidth available that customers don't have a negative experience, but not to have excess capacity sitting there unused.

.

When it came to dial up Internet, you looked for a provider that had the lowest modem to subscriber ration (I think the best I saw was 15:1). Capacity is dirt cheap, the problem is companies want to profit (outrageously I might add) from collecting their overpriced subscriptions and at the same time providing the bare minimum of service.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5
said by elwoodblues:

Capacity is dirt cheap

Wireless capacity is not "dirt cheap"