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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to 07108968

Re: TSA detains sick girl...

I bet you wouldn't check those TWO small suitcases today...not at $35-60 a pop going AND coming. You'd check ONE larger suitcase so a lesser fee...or better, do what everyone else does who isn't rich, stuff it in a carry-on and then you would have to present the correct size baggie with your toiletries to the agent, etc. It would take more than 5 minutes. Plus, after January 15 you would have to have REAL ID to fly (at least here in Hawaii).
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
reply to StuartMW

As much as I have flown, I was only hassled once by TSA. And it was well before 9/11.

I was flying to Colorado from Hampton, VA. About 4 flights. Of the 8 in total, just one agent questioned the device in my briefcase. It was an instrument for measuring temperature for printing ovens. About 10"x6" 1 inch thick steel with electronics on the inside. I couldn't have brought anything that looked more like a bomb.

And the lady who questioned it was hyper freaked out. Drew her gun on me!....
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

said by Ian:

As much as I have flown, I was only hassled once by TSA. And it was well before 9/11.

You may have been hassled by airport security but it wasn't the TSA. I didn't exist before November 19th 2001. Also DHS didn't exist prior to 9/11 either.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3

said by StuartMW:

said by Ian:

As much as I have flown, I was only hassled once by TSA. And it was well before 9/11.

You may have been hassled by airport security but it wasn't the TSA. I didn't exist before November 19th 2001. Also DHS didn't exist prior to 9/11 either.

Whatever the heck US airport security was called then.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong

NefCanuck

join:2007-06-26
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to StuartMW

Things like this make me wonder just how effective the Americans with Disabilities Act actually is.

I mean really, surely someone on the TSA staff at that airport should have known better than to have let this happen

Coming back to Canada from NY through LGA in 2011 after visiting some friends there I had my knee brace checked and swabbed for explosives residue. Wasn't the most pleasant experience in the world, but it was leagues ahead of this

NefCanuck


ctggzg
Premium
join:2005-02-11
USA
kudos:2
reply to StuartMW

Maybe you should blame the terrorists who strap bombs to kids. Or just get over it.



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms

said by ctggzg:

Maybe you should blame the terrorists who strap bombs to kids.

Does this occur in the US frequently? Ever?
--
~ Project Hope ~


djrobx
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Valencia, CA
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Reviews:
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reply to TheMG

said by TheMG:

I've flown to the USA a few times and while all of the screenings I went through were without incident, I can't say that they were "quick and efficient".

Then again, it's not "quick and efficient" here in Canada either. But at least we get to keep our shoes on.

On average I've spent significantly more time waiting in security line-ups at airports, than the amount of time spent at the check-in counters.

What really burns me up is the monetization of the the security checkpoints. I'm referring to Nexus/Global Entry/Pre check/Frequent flyer priority lanes.

Why the hell is it OK to let SOME people bypass security checks? Do they not think that someone looking to get past security might go through the process to get one of these things?

Even just access to shorter lines for frequent flyers seems wrong to me. These things remove incentive for the TSA to improve the process for ALL passengers.
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.


Blogger
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said by djrobx:

What really burns me up is the monetization of the the security checkpoints. I'm referring to Nexus/Global Entry/Pre check/Frequent flyer priority lanes.

Why the hell is it OK to let SOME people bypass security checks? Do they not think that someone looking to get past security might go through the process to get one of these things?

Even just access to shorter lines for frequent flyers seems wrong to me. These things remove incentive for the TSA to improve the process for ALL passengers.

I do not know about the use of such programs like Global Entry, Nexus, or Sentri for going through airport checkpoints. I only am familiar with them to re-enter the United States, (in my experience by car from Mexico using Sentri.) All I can say is that the application process and the background screening to obtain the "pass" is extensive and includes a personal interview. Any blot or irregularity in your background or application will fail you.


Blackbird
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reply to StuartMW

Employment of the priority-lanes is based on three assumptions:
1. That the Global Entry/Nexus/Sentri/PreCheck/FrequentFlyer traveler's identification can't be faked (that is, the flyer really is who he says he is, and so his background and general inclinations have already been in-depth screened)
2. That the in-depth advance screening from a prior time is adequate to assure the person's trustworthiness at the current moment.
3. That a flyer not advance-screened is more likely to present a threat.

I'll leave it to others to argue whether any or all of these assumptions are valid.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville



pizz
bye bye twc. hello Comcast.
Premium
join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to ctggzg

said by ctggzg:

Maybe you should blame the terrorists who strap bombs to kids. Or just get over it.

I see planes in the US getting exploded everyday because, kids are being strapped with bombs and taking down planes.

logic, it's something that this gov't lacks within the TSA, CIA, NSA.
--
It's ok to say, 'I don't know'. It's even better when someone takes the time to explain what you, 'don't know'.


Blackbird
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said by pizz:

... logic, it's something that this gov't lacks within the TSA, CIA, NSA.

Actually, that's an overly harsh indictment. There are many within those organizations who possess reasonably good logic. The problem is that those who set policies and call the shots within those agencies too often offset logic (and common sense) against a lot of other "considerations"... and logic/common-sense comes out short much of the time. That's the inherent nature of bureacracies: corporate, governmental, or military. With corporations, I can at least choose to walk away to a competitor; with the government, I have to submit, pay the sanction price, or flee; with the military, I have to obey or outrun a speeding bullet. That's why our founders were always so hard on government (and its step-child, the military)... their decisions (and illogic) leave a citizen with few alternative choices beyond obedience and revolution.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


chkptdewd

@verizon.net
reply to djrobx

said by djrobx:

said by TheMG:

I've flown to the USA a few times and while all of the screenings I went through were without incident, I can't say that they were "quick and efficient".

Then again, it's not "quick and efficient" here in Canada either. But at least we get to keep our shoes on.

On average I've spent significantly more time waiting in security line-ups at airports, than the amount of time spent at the check-in counters.

What really burns me up is the monetization of the the security checkpoints. I'm referring to Nexus/Global Entry/Pre check/Frequent flyer priority lanes.

Why the hell is it OK to let SOME people bypass security checks? Do they not think that someone looking to get past security might go through the process to get one of these things?

Even just access to shorter lines for frequent flyers seems wrong to me. These things remove incentive for the TSA to improve the process for ALL passengers.

As stated, if you have Nexus/Global Entry etc your background is already checked.

The shorter lines for frequent fliers is an airline thing, not the TSA. The TSA has little incentive to improve the process just like any government bureaucracy, they are nearly impossible to hold accountable.


chkptdewd

@verizon.net
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

I bet you wouldn't check those TWO small suitcases today...not at $35-60 a pop going AND coming. You'd check ONE larger suitcase so a lesser fee...or better, do what everyone else does who isn't rich, stuff it in a carry-on and then you would have to present the correct size baggie with your toiletries to the agent, etc. It would take more than 5 minutes. Plus, after January 15 you would have to have REAL ID to fly (at least here in Hawaii).

I fly weekly and have yet to pay more than $25 each way for a checked bag. For biz travel my company picks up the tab, but I will use a carry on unless I'm carrying tools.

On a personal level, I'm not rich but value spending the $50 over the hassle of dragging a bag through a checkpoint and hoping to find a spot on the plane for it.

As to REAL ID, 36 states have IDs that meet the REAL ID standard even if they don't say REAL ID and as such would be acceptable for use at any checkpoint in the US.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

Yeah, but a state like Hawaii just implemented Real ID this year. I renewed my driver's license in 2011 for 8 years. Now I have to pay for a new one before Jan 15 2013....bummer. Plus, I have submit my birth certificate, etc. all this just so I can fly here in Hawaii ...not out of state.

If you have to fly frequently to Honolulu for medical reasons, the baggage fee adds up fast so most do carry on. I no longer travel outside the state as I would take two bags to check in and that would be at least $100 extra for one trip.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Snowy
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Kailua, HI
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Reviews:
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said by Mele20:

Yeah, but a state like Hawaii just implemented Real ID this year. I renewed my driver's license in 2011 for 8 years. Now I have to pay for a new one before Jan 15 2013....bummer.

Mele, I may be wrong about this but...
The Jan 2013 deadline is a deadline for a State to become REALID compliant not each & every person in a State to have a REALID compliant drivers lic or State ID

"People born on or after December 1, 1964, will have to obtain a REAL ID by December 1, 2014. Those born before December 1, 1964, will have until December 1, 2017 to obtain their REAL ID."

"After the final implementation deadline, some non-Real-ID-compliant licenses will continue to be accepted for federal purposes, provided DHS judges that the state which issued such a license is in full compliance with the Real ID Act by the final implementation deadline. However, in order for their licenses to be accepted for federal purposes, all people born after December 1, 1964 will be required to have Real-ID-compliant cards by December 1, 2014. Additionally, in order to be accepted for federal purposes, people born before December 1, 1964 will be required to have Real-ID-compliant cards by December 1, 2017.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 edit

I don't care about entering federal and state buildings. I care that TSA will not accept (for proof of identity) Hawaii driver's licenses that are non-compliant with RealID. The last I read the change takes effect on Jan 15, 2013.

"The deadline for compliance is coming. Beginning on fifteenth of January 2013, an ID that is compliant with the Real ID guidelines will be required of passengers as a prerequisite to boarding domestic flights in the US. Although the DHS has extended the deadline in the past, they have indicated that they are committed to the January date and that will be no more extensions. On January 15 agents of the TSA will be enforcing the law at airports around the country."

»g3insider.wordpress.com/2012/11/···real-id/

A person's age has zero to do with this! We are unique among all states. We MUST fly to get around our state (much less go anywhere outside Hawaii). UNLESS DHS grants another extension, as of Jan 15, 2013, I will required to have either a REAL ID driver's license or a current USA Passport or a State ID which has just been moved from the governor's office to DOT and is causing problems with delays, etc.

I will not have to pay the full $40 for a new driver's license but a certain portion of it will be charged even though I paid $40 for an eight year license in 2011. I think it should be free to redo it as Real ID driver's license...especially for seniors on fixed incomes. It is not my fault that Hawaii did not have this in effect in 2011. But aside from the fee, it is a mess currently. I know someone who did it and had their current, valid license (but non- Real ID) confiscated and they were given a piece of paper and told it would be weeks to months before the actual license was mailed to them. That stunned me as I had read you get the new license while you are there provided you did bring a watermarked copy of your birth certificate and not a xeroxed copy.

This whole thing is DHS/TSA and it is particularly hard on the people of Hawaii who live on the neighbor islands. I'm wondering if I didn't it get by Jan 15 (and DHS makes no extension again) if my birth certificate would be accepted if I had to make an emergency flight for medical attention? Of course, my birth certificate is in the safety deposit box so how would I get it in an emergency during non banking hours or even banking hours as that would delay my getting to Oahu for medical attention? I guess it would be ok if I was transported via air ambulance to not have Real ID but not on a commercial flight even if surgery was required within 24 hours and could be performed on Oahu only. I can think of several types of medical conditions requiring emergency surgery on Oahu where the patient could fly commercially... but supposedly not after Jan 15 without a Real ID driver's license or USA Passport or State ID.

Of course, I can hope the following is correct and that Real ID is pau:

"REAL ID is dead. Americans have already rejected large parts of this ill-conceived attempt to unite state drivers’ licenses into a national ID card. Thirty-six states—including New Mexico—currently do not fully comply with this unpopular, unfunded mandate. In fact, twenty-five states have passed resolutions rejecting REAL ID, and in fifteen states (more than 20% of the U.S. population), it is illegal for state officials to comply with the law.

Just as we saw in 2008, 2009, and then 2011—all previous deadlines for compliance—the Department of Homeland Security will almost surely kick the can further down the road and extend the deadline again. The government cannot afford to ban 20 percent of the total population from entering a federal building or boarding a plane back home from winter holidays."

»www.aclu.org/technology-and-libe···be-valid

The ACLU raises a very valid question similar to mine (about what if I, or any Hawaii neighbor island resident, needs emergency medical treatment on Oahu and hasn't yet gotten their Real ID)? What happens when folks who spent the holidays in Hawaii and loved it enough to not leave for their Mainland homes until after January 14? Is TSA at Honolulu International Airport going to deny them the right to board their flights to the Mainland because they are citizens of states where Real ID is against the law and thus no way for them to have Real ID drivers license? Will they be informed that ignorance of the law is no defense and they should have obtained a USA Passport if their state was refusing to comply with Real ID? It's scary and, given the stories we read frequently (like this one currently about the sick child and TSA), I wouldn't put it past TSA to deny boarding even in the face of a medical emergency that cannot be handled outside of Oahu or to deny boarding to those returning home after Jan 14 who do not have Real ID or current USA Passports.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Blackbird
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said by Mele20:

... The ACLU raises a very valid question similar to mine (about what if I, or any Hawaii neighbor island resident, needs emergency medical treatment on Oahu and hasn't yet gotten their Real ID)? What happens when folks who spent the holidays in Hawaii and loved it enough to not leave for their Mainland homes until after January 14? Is TSA at Honolulu International Airport going to deny them the right to board their flights to the Mainland because they are citizens of states where Real ID is against the law and thus no way for them to have Real ID drivers license? Will they be informed that ignorance of the law is no defense and they should have obtained a USA Passport if their state was refusing to comply with Real ID? It's scary and, given the stories we read frequently (like this one currently about the sick child and TSA), I wouldn't put it past TSA to deny boarding even in the face of a medical emergency that cannot be handled outside of Oahu or to deny boarding to those returning home after Jan 14 who do not have Real ID or current USA Passports.

The TSA is a bureaucratically-driven, central-governmental organization. What could possibly go wrong with whatever they decide to do?
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
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said by Blackbird:

The TSA is a bureaucratically-driven, central-governmental organization.

Yep. Maybe they'll issue Floaties, at taxpayer expense, to Hawaiians that don't have the appropriate ID.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Snowy
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Kailua, HI
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Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
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reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

I don't care about entering federal and state buildings. I care that TSA will not accept (for proof of identity) Hawaii driver's licenses that are non-compliant with RealID. The last I read the change takes effect on Jan 15, 2013.

No huhu, then you need to read more.
As much as I dislike long quotes...

"DHS recognizes the significant operational impact on State DMVs if all licenses issued by a State were required to be REAL ID-compliant by May 11, 2008, or May 11, 2013; and believes that an age-based approach is the best way to balance operational concerns against security concerns. DHS has considered the best methodology to target preventive efforts against an individual attempting to fraudulently obtain an identification document to gain access to a Federal facility, nuclear facility, or commercial aircr aft. In the absence of threat reporting about particular individuals, to which the DMVs will not have access, DHS has determined that the most appropriate substitute criteria to apply is age.
DHS has determined that the most logical option to reduce the significant operational burden on States is to allow States to divide their license-bearing population and re-issue REAL ID-compliant licenses through a two-phased enrollment. This approach would reduce the operational burdens on States, which otherwise would have to reissue licenses to the majority of their license-bearing populations within two years for States requiring and obtaining extensions until May 11, 2011. DHS also has determined that a phased enrollment based on age is consistent with the intent of the REAL ID Act by focusing the first phase of enrollment on the population of persons that may have a higher propensity to obtain and use fraudulent identification.
To determine a logical age to use as a cut-off point for a two-phased enrollment, DHS determined, based on comments received and statistical analysis of incident reports obtained from the TSA, that solely for purposes of establishing an age-based enrollment for compliance with the REAL ID Act, the logical point of division would be to allow States to defer enrollment for persons over the age of fifty. The statistical analysis supporting this determination was conducted by DHS utilizing TSA incident reports identifying persons arrested or detained for use of fraudulent identification at TSA screening areas during the period from October 1, 2004 through July 25, 2007. This analysis roughly indicates that persons over the age of fifty were less likely to be involved in TSA-related law enforcement incidents involving false or fraudulent identification. More specific information on the methodology underlying this assessment is provided in Section IV.C. below.
Accordingly, DHS, under this final rule, has developed a phased enrollment approach for States who have certified compliance with the requirements of the Act and this final rule, and have been determined by DHS to be in compliance with the Act and this rule. Under this final rule, once a State certifies compliance with the REAL ID Act and this final rule, the State may focus enrollment first on issuing REAL ID-compliant cards to individuals born after December 1, 1964 (those who will be less than fifty year s of age as of December 1, 2014, the date of full compliance). States may delay the full enrollment of persons born on or before December 1, 1964, for three additional years, until December 1, 2017.

»www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/FR/H···819.html


Blackbird
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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

said by Blackbird:

The TSA is a bureaucratically-driven, central-governmental organization.

Yep. Maybe they'll issue Floaties, at taxpayer expense, to Hawaiians that don't have the appropriate ID.

Floaties? Oh... you mean the bobbers for the sharkie num-nums.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
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Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

said by Blackbird:

Floaties? Oh... you mean the bobbers for the sharkie num-nums.

Well if you think like a bureaucrat its a win-win.

Hawaiians that attempt to swim/float from one island to another in an attempt to get medical treatment and are eaten by sharks

1) Reduce health care costs (assuming they're killed).

2) Increase the dwindling shark population.

3) Benefit the manufacturers of Floaties.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6

Mele vs Shark
I'd put my money on Mele.



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
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Galt's Gulch
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1 recommendation

said by Snowy:

Mele vs Shark

Not going to touch that one with a 10ft pole
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Blackbird
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1 recommendation

said by StuartMW:

said by Snowy:

Mele vs Shark

Not going to touch that one with a 10ft pole

Uhmm... which one?
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
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Galt's Gulch
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Moms the word



Snowy
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reply to Blackbird

said by Blackbird:

said by StuartMW:

said by Snowy:

Mele vs Shark

Not going to touch that one with a 10ft pole

Uhmm... which one?

That's simple.
A shark can only kill you.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

Personal (and up close) experience Snowy See Profile?
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Snowy

Ok. But where is any announcement from the state of Hawaii regarding this? All I see is this:

»hawaii.gov/dot/hawaiis-legal-presence-law

And Hawaiian Airlines says Real ID/USA Passport is required starting Jan 15, 2013.

Can I use my Hawaii State ID? The above linked site says "valid" state ID but doe not explain further. Mine was issued in 1977 and has no expiration date. It has my fingerprints on the back (index and middle finger of both hands) and I retain the address listed on the card. (Of course, the photo is really old). That qualifies to prove name and date of birth. You can't use your current driver's license to prove anything. But Hawaii State ID doesn't prove legal presence. Only a birth certificate from the state of birth can do that (and I am not sure if mine is from the state of birth or the hospital).

County of Hawaii website gives same information as the above linked site. Plus, I am invited by the County of Hawaii to discuss this on their website on Facebook...YUCK.

I vividly recall earlier this year that the state of Hawaii said we had to have REAL ID drivers license by Jan 15 2013 (if we intended to board a commercial aircraft and/or enter state/federal buildings) and if ours was not expiring by that date that we would pay a smaller charge for a new card (not the full $40). If that has changed where is the information?

Even if I could wait to get it, I still would have to do it before mine expires and mó bettah do it fairly soon so it expires well after the cutoff date for renewing every two years because of age.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


EdmundGerber

join:2010-01-04
kudos:1
reply to EUS

said by EUS:

Anarchists, patriots, communists, terrorists, I wasn't looking for labels, merely thinking about the stunned looks on the faces of TSA agents everywhere as people simply ignored them.

Here's a label for them to ponder - revolutionist.

Coming soon....

Another thread derailed by you know who.