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ymhee_bcex
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join:2006-04-21
Tarzana, CA
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Alternatives to bridging

I am switching to AT&T U-Verse next week, and I got 2Wire 3600HGV gateway today. Right now I have Cable modem from Time Warner and a router with OpenWrt. My router is set up in a fine-tuned way. It assigns IPs by MAC, QoC setup. It also has USB drive, which I am using to backup several computers, and it also runs web server and subversion.

Finally, the router has Gigabit wired ports and 300N wireless.

I understand that the new gateway has wireless router built in, that can't be disabled. What are the "best practices" of using gateway-based router with some advanced functionality of a second router (probably, in bridge mode).

I've used OpenWrt for many years and love it; I am a little nervous about the advanced functionality that I am about to lose with this gateway...
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Technical problems are more often than not management incompetence masquerading as technical issues



aefstoggaflm
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1 edit

Ok.

Besides bridge mode..

Choice number one: Double NAT.

#1 Both routers must be in two different subnets.

For example one at 192.168.1.1 and the other at 192.168.2.1

#2 To allow users from the network of networks that spans the globe (other knowns as the Internet) to connect through the second router..

a) Port forwarding can be done twice.

http://portforward.com -> Guides -> Port Forwarding Behind Two Routers?

b) OR one can use the DMZ feature in the first router to send all traffic to the second router

http://www.pcwintech.com -> Routers -> Router Help -> How To Setup Two or More Routers Together

#3 If this 2Wire 3600HGV does NOT have only one RJ-45 LAN port, I do not recommend allowing users from Internet to connect through the second router... Instead..

a) I would recommend having only the computers that you want users from the Internet to, to be connected wired or without wirelress to the 2Wire 3600HGV.

b) Points to grc.com -> Research -> Recent -> NAT Router Security

Choice number two: Converting the second router into a Hub/Switch/Wap.

While each router and OS (and Version of the OS - for example Windows XP ) is different, I can give the steps.

#1 User must know how to release and release the IP Address of their computer, if their computer is not setup to use a Static IP.

#2 User must know how to change the Static IP on their computer, if their computer is setup to use a Static IP.

#3 User must make sure that they have at least one RJ-45 LAN port occupied on the second router.

#4 In the primary router that is handling the public IP (most likely will be the 2Wire 3600HGV - in your case), one must:

a) Find the DHCP range of it.

b) Make sure the DHCP range does not occupy the whole subnet.

c) Adjust the DHCP range of it, as need be (if it occupies the whole subnet).

For example if the primary router that is handling the public IP has the LAN IP of 192.168.1.1, the Starting IP Address of 192.168.1.2 and the Ending IP Address of 192.168.1.254, one can make the Starting IP Address 192.168.1.100

#5 User must make sure that the second router is not connected to the primary router.

#6 In the second router, one must make sure that router is not setup to use a Static WAN IP that is in the same subnet as the primary router.

#7 As need be, one must turn off and turn back on the power to the second router.

#8 In the second router, one must then: Change the LAN IP of it so that it is in the same subnet as the primary router and the second router's LAN IP must be outside of the DHCP range of the first router.

For example if the primary router's LAN IP is 192.168.1.1, the Starting IP Address is 192.168.1.100 and the Ending IP Address is 192.168.1.254, then the second router's LAN IP could be 192.168.1.2

#9 User must release and renew IP Address (if not setup for DHCP) / User must change the Static IP on computer to match the subnet of the second router (if setup to use a Static IP)

#10 User must disable the DHCP Server in the second router.

#11 User must connect one of the second router's LAN Ports to the primary router's LAN port(s).

#12 Again: User must release and renew IP Address (if not setup for DHCP) / User must change the Static IP on computer to match the subnet of the second router (if setup to use a Static IP).
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ymhee_bcex
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@aefstoggaflm,
Thank you for such detailed response.

Choice number one - Double NAT

#1 I don't think it's a viable option. I have PBX running, IP phone from the office, and ATA for family. It took me awhile to set everything up without double NAT. not sure I want to endure more anger from Mrs or coworkers when calls don't connect or voice quality sucks.
Also, I would prefer to have single subnet. I have Windows AD for all computers, and non-AD for other devices (PBX, printer, DVR). The fact that I can connect by name (and name points to the same IP) makes it much easier. Again, having multiple subnets complicates things significantly.

#2 Access from internet is not a priority
#3 2Wire 3600HGV has four RJ-45 ports (I assume they are 100Mb, and not Gigabit ports) but access from internet is not a priority

Choice number two - converting the second router into a Hub/Switch/Wap.

Again, I appreciate the detailed instructions. It's somewhat different in OpenWRT, but basically, of course, it's a similar process. I see that as my only choice

Now, back to my original question - I am a little nervous about the advanced functionality that I am about to lose with this gateway... This is probably a question to people who are running 2Wire 3600HGV and are trying to push its router functionality to technical limits...
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Technical problems are more often than not management incompetence masquerading as technical issues



ymhee_bcex
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reply to ymhee_bcex

Apparently, there is a third way - put the gateway in bridge mode »forums.att.com/t5/Residential-Ga···/2707013

If this works - that would be ideal... I'll find out next week
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Technical problems are more often than not management incompetence masquerading as technical issues


OFBulldog

join:2009-12-15
Phoenix, AZ

said by ymhee_bcex:

Apparently, there is a third way - put the gateway in bridge mode »forums.att.com/t5/Residential-Ga···/2707013

If this works - that would be ideal... I'll find out next week

As stated in the article you posted, there is no bridge mode for the 3600 not can you back up any configuration. Your best option is to use the 3600 in DMZ+ mode and only attach your OpenWRT router to one of the 3600 LAN ports. Yes, this will be a bottleneck going WAN-->10/100-->oWRT-->LAN but it's livable.

Good luck


aefstoggaflm
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reply to ymhee_bcex

Ok.

A third option might exist in your 2Wire 3600HGV.

#1 Points to »AT&T Southeast Forum FAQ »How do I enable IP Passthrough on a Motorola 2210?

#2 Also see the sample screen shots that I took of my modem combo and posted them in »[modem/router] Putting Westell G90-6100 into bridge mode

I have no idea if the 2Wire 3600HGV even has this third option, regardless of it's name (Just to be, clear more to deal with what that feature does).
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Please use the "yellow (IM) envelope" to contact me and please leave the URL intact.



ymhee_bcex
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reply to ymhee_bcex

I went through the pain of setting up the gateway. First, the upside: my voip phone has much better voice quality than with Time Warner. And that's the only reason I am going through all the pain with AT&T and the gateway.

I wasn't able to put it in the bridge mode. I even spend an hour and a half with AT&T support (most of the time on hold, of course). Spoke with 8 people total, including "Connectic" which is their professional services group that charges for help (offered me a plan that included virus removal, printer and scanner support). They said they can disable the router, but it will cost me $50.

Anyway, I gave up and left the router up. Wireless is pathetic - invisible beyond 10 ft. Wired ports are 100Mb - noticeable difference on HD movies that I am streaming from the server, but I can live with that.

I set up my OpenWrt-based router as Bridged access point. Wireless works fine, but for some reason wired ports are not bridged.

Bottom line: if Time Warner didn't have compatibility problems with my VOIP provider - I would cancel the service in the first 24 hours.
--
Technical problems are more often than not management incompetence masquerading as technical issues