| reply to TSI Marc
Re: Discussion about log retention Hey Marc, what'sup?
Just hoping to hear from ya in here. |
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 Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3
 ·FreePhoneLine
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
 ·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to syntaxerr0r
said by syntaxerr0r:I'm also in favour of zero logs. I don't like the idea of all my whereabouts being recorded in general, the internet is no exception.
Unfortunately i do not see this happening since Teksavvy is basically in support of handing over the information "legally". They have zero issues handing over logs, and considering they themselves considered an extension of an additional 90 day on top of their current 90 day they have no plans to protect any of TSI customers.
Ignore the fact i said protect. It's not just about protecting, the reasoning behind the extended logs for "police" and such is horse poop. Other ISP's world wide manage with 2 weeks to NONE. Until there is a law forcing x(days) retention on all logging i see absolutely zero reason for it.
almost 3 years of growing pains. Wait times still high and i guarantee this crap is only making their lines busier and an ISP that has zero plans to protect their customers. Protecting their customers has nothing to do with protecting criminals. It's about what's right. It is our right to be protected by you unless their is irrefutable proof, not just an internet protocol address
Now again that word protect. Ok, don't object to the current 2300 IPs, but you can protect your customers in a different way. Not their piracy, but simply their privacy. Stop logging. How no one see's the fact that Teksavvy believes in this practice (law is the law and we dont mind handing over information as long as it's done by the law) is beyond me.
Honestly feel sorry for those who are innocent. Even those who are guilty of it. You'll be treated like a murderer, if not worse. Biggest crime to humanity!
Marc, stop logging. Set a precedence in this country and gain a notoriety for doing the right thing. Doing so does not make you a pirate ISP. It make's you a ISP that gives two shits about their customers, not just saying you do.
I am also not willing to trade my freedoms for police enforcement to have access to something 6 months ago. Police should not depend on an ISP's logging practices to go after someone. It's not the ISP's job, and as the ISP, pretending you're doing due service in return giving up your customers is unfortunate. |
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| reply to TSI Marc
hi everyone, reading teksavvy forums, can not find info on what exactly is logged by tsi for unlimited accounts and what is logged for metered accounts. anyone knows that info? thx |
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MZB
join:2010-11-25
Dunrobin, ON | My 2 cents worth:
For privacy reasons, TSI should log the minimum amount to get its job done:
•Billing related technical information (connections, bytes transferred). Long enough to handle a billing enquiry. Given a billing cycle of 1 month, this info needs to be retained for approximately two months to allow handling of an I-did-not-use-300GB-last-month-yes-you-did type dispute. (If this type of dispute never happens, or is always resolved as a goodwill measure in the customer's favour, then this information need not be retained any longer than more detailed technical logs (below).
•More detailed technical logs. 1 week or less. I doubt anybody complains about service received more than a few days after the event. (And even if they do, the situation has probably changed significantly by that time).
•Statistical summaries. Indefinitely. If there is a trend in faults, dropped sync , increased usage, etc you need the statistics information to detect it.
•Repair or problem related logs. Indefinitely. Experience suggests that if a Bell telephone line fails, it's often due to the same problem recurring. I imagine this is true of Cable too. |
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 eksterHi there.
join:2010-07-16
Lachine, QC
kudos:1
·FreePhoneLine
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to TSI Marc
Everyone needs to realize if Teksavvy (or anyone else) starts playing the technical card and keep no logs at all, or for a very short time, the police, the entertainment companies and the politicians will just push a law to get rid of that and make a law that will force everyone to keep logs.
And if they do that, they will definitely not go gentle on the time and ask for 30 days or something like that. They'd want logs kept for a year or two. |
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Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3 Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy DSL
| said by ekster:Everyone needs to realize if Teksavvy (or anyone else) starts playing the technical card and keep no logs at all, or for a very short time, the police, the entertainment companies and the politicians will just push a law to get rid of that and make a law that will force everyone to keep logs.
And if they do that, they will definitely not go gentle on the time and ask for 30 days or something like that. They'd want logs kept for a year or two.
If the government wants this they'll do it... they won't wait until ISP's stop logging to do it. No logging is a growing practice around the world. Governments would be over-stepping to even try and suggest how a business should conduct it's business |
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| reply to ekster
said by ekster:Everyone needs to realize if Teksavvy (or anyone else) starts playing the technical card and keep no logs at all, or for a very short time, the police, the entertainment companies and the politicians will just push a law to get rid of that and make a law that will force everyone to keep logs.
And if they do that, they will definitely not go gentle on the time and ask for 30 days or something like that. They'd want logs kept for a year or two.
They don't need to.
Sandvine will sell the gov't. all the DPI gear they want to catch you in real-time. |
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| reply to ekster
said by ekster:Everyone needs to realize if Teksavvy (or anyone else) starts playing the technical card and keep no logs at all, or for a very short time, the police, the entertainment companies and the politicians will just push a law to get rid of that and make a law that will force everyone to keep logs.
That's their problem. In the end we need to stand up and do something about it now before it starts. Once they start and the people scream, nothing ever happens about it, the screaming just eventually goes down. Get your foot in the door first. |
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 EUSKill cancerPremium
join:2002-09-10
canada
·voip.ms
| reply to ekster
said by ekster:Everyone needs to realize if Teksavvy (or anyone else) starts playing the technical card and keep no logs at all, or for a very short time, the police, the entertainment companies and the politicians will just push a law to get rid of that and make a law that will force everyone to keep logs.
And if they do that, they will definitely not go gentle on the time and ask for 30 days or something like that. They'd want logs kept for a year or two.
In the short term that might be a good thing as this issue would be in the public eye where it belongs.
Long term however, come TPP time, all of this will most likely be made moot, the rules will be dictated.
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~ Project Hope ~ |
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| reply to TSI Marc
still got no answer and can not find that info here: what exactly is logged by tsi for unlimited accounts and what is logged for metered accounts. anyone knows that info? thx |
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| reply to TSI Marc
The fact that TSI keeps logs for 90 days when it is not required by law is sufficient reason for me to drop them if I can find a competitor that retains logs for less time. I'm sooo sick and tired of the "if you have nothing to hide it shouldn't bother you" mentality. I'd be a fool to pay to perpetuate it. |
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| reply to TSI Marc
I have a feeling all this chatter is moot. TSI has gone silent on a discussion they started. Not good sign.
My points and position still stand. |
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| reply to fa13243546
said by fa13243546 :still got no answer and can not find that info here: what exactly is logged by tsi for unlimited accounts and what is logged for metered accounts. anyone knows that info? thx
I haven't read every post in every thread, but I believe the only two knowns at this point are:
1) They log which IP address belongs to you at any given time
2) They don't log specific details of your traffic (ie they track how much you download, and when, but not what, so for example a 10MB youtube video and a 10MB youporn video look the same in the log)
I don't see any reason that a metered and unlimited account would be treated any differently, so assume there's no difference between the two for logging purposes. |
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 c2rothPremium
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON
kudos:2
·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to voxframe
Marc did say he wanted to create a new blog posted summarizing whats happened in the past week or two to catch everyone up. I suspect between actually doing his job and word smithing that blog post he's pretty busy.
Personally, I'd like to see logs kept for 15 days. I also like what others have suggested that actual business data related to data usage be stripped from the logs to their unique purpose. I have no issue with TSI tracking usage, that is their business after all. |
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| reply to TSI Marc
I would simply like to know what's his feel on a short retention time.
Is it something he's looking into, or is it simply something that's not up for discussion.
He's responded and created a few posts on here already, so this one should have had a hit by now. |
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 TSI MarcPremium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:14 | I'm reading... not ignoring.
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Marc - CEO/TekSavvy |
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| reply to TSI Marc
Thanks 
The big question I'm wondering, is what are you thinking. |
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| reply to ekster
said by ekster:Everyone needs to realize if Teksavvy (or anyone else) starts playing the technical card and keep no logs at all, or for a very short time, the police, the entertainment companies and the politicians will just push a law to get rid of that and make a law that will force everyone to keep logs. »ACTA Is Dead In Europe
Not that this is really on the same grounds... But it's just another kick in the teeth to the copyright trolls when they tried to push legislation. |
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 TwiztedZeroNine Zero Burp Nine SixPremium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:3
·TekSavvy Cable
| said by voxframe:said by ekster:Everyone needs to realize if Teksavvy (or anyone else) starts playing the technical card and keep no logs at all, or for a very short time, the police, the entertainment companies and the politicians will just push a law to get rid of that and make a law that will force everyone to keep logs. » ACTA Is Dead In EuropeNot that this is really on the same grounds... But it's just another kick in the teeth to the copyright trolls when they tried to push legislation. Just keep in the back of your mind theres yet another teeth kicking movement they're trying to do an end run around with called the Trans Pacific Partnership. While we're fairly certain won't impact things as they stand right now. It'll definitely play a substantial part a year or two down the road, when ever and if it gets ratified.
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----|- Crazed Techie Crossing -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca |
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| reply to TSI Marc
Excerpts from a recent article at torrentfreaks showing how the Australians see it. Full article can be found at »torrentfreak.com/isp-walks-out-o···-121217/
ISP WALKS OUT OF PIRACY TALKS: “WE’RE NOT THE INTERNET POLICE”
December 17, 2012
A leading Australian Internet service provider has pulled out of negotiations to create a warning notice scheme aimed at reducing online piracy.
iiNet, the ISP that was sued by Hollywood after refusing to help chase down alleged infringers, said that it can’t make any progress with righthsolders if they don’t make their content freely available at a reasonable price. The ISP adds that holding extra data on customers’ habits is inappropriate and not their responsibility.
In many countries around the world the entertainment industries are attempting to engage Internet service providers in their battle against online piracy.
The music and movie industries have persuaded some to begin sending warning notifications to subscribers which advise them that their infringing activities have been monitored. In addition to a few less high-profile projects, large scale schemes are underway in France, New Zealand and a similar operation is about to launch in the United States.
In other countries negotiations have been less fruitful. Australia became a notable failure after discussions on infringement developed into parallel legal action against an ISP. The Hollywood-affiliated video industry there thought it could convince a court to hold the ISP iiNet responsible for the activities of alleged infringers. It couldn’t.
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But while the lack of timely and reasonably-priced content is a serious flaw, that is only part of the problem.
Any notice scheme requires ISPs to store data which ties their customers to alleged infringements which of course has privacy implications. Over in the United States there have been concerns that the information gathered as part of “six strikes” could be used for more than just warnings. Sure enough, last week it was revealed that the data voluntarily retained by ISPs could end up being used to file lawsuits against customers.
According to Dalby, this will not happen at iiNet.
“iiNet won’t support any scheme that forces ISPs to retain data in order to allow for the tracking of customer behaviour and the status of any alleged infringements against them. Collecting and retaining additional customer data at this level is inappropriate, expensive and most importantly, not our responsibility,” Dalby says.
And this – the issue of responsibility – rounds off iiNet’s comprehensive rejection and exit from the talks.
“It’s not iiNet’s job to play online police. The High Court spoke loud and clear in their verdict when they ruled categorically that ISPs have no obligation to protect the rights of third parties, and we’re not prepared to harass our customers when the industry has no clear obligation to do so,” Dalby states.
It will be a serious concern, particularly to the Hollywood studios, that not only has it proven impossible to force iiNet to comply through the courts, but that negotiation on the issue of piracy has failed too. It is now up to rightsholders to make the next move.
“Hollywood, you know where we are. It’s time to change the tune,” Dalby concludes. |
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