 Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3
 ·FreePhoneLine
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
 ·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to AkFubar
Re: Why we are not opposing motion on Monday. said by AkFubar:IMHO TSI is doing what they have always done, a hands off approach to your account. What you use your account for is up to you. However even Rocky had mentioned that no customer info would be released without a court order. I would imagine if your case went to trial and if your lawyer required it, a technical expert from TSI could be made available to testify. In fact I am almost sure that this would be part of your defense.
You realize what you're saying? You're saying you're almost sure TSi would send out an expert to 2300 different cases... and this is the first round |
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 AkFubarAdmittedly, A Teksavvy Fan
join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to TSI Marc
Re: Why we are not opposing motion on Monday. IMHO TSI is doing what they have always done, a hands off approach to your account. What you use your account for is up to you. However even Rocky had mentioned that no customer info would be released without a court order. I would imagine if your case went to trial and if your lawyer required it, a technical expert from TSI could be made available to testify. In fact I am almost sure that this would be part of your defense.
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If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled?? BHell... A Public Futility. |
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Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3 Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to ultramancool
said by ultramancool:Indeed, if TekSavvy isn't going all out now when the laws are being brought into question, what can we really expect from them in the future, especially if the lawsuits ramp up?
Took the words right out of my mouth.. The wrongfully accused and the genuinely wrongfully accused will always be at risk since there is no "firewall" to protect them even the slightest.
said by neuromancer1:said by Optional:Seriously considering taking my business elsewhere. I want to know that my privacy is just that, PRIVATE.
I'm considering this as well. The lack of privacy is huge issue for me even though I'm not accused. Well that and TSI will be nothing but a huge target for copyright lawsuits after this. Absolutely. I believe I'll be doing the same and i'll be moving my father and grandmother off of it as well. Though i'm the one who setup their routers it still worries me. |
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Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3 Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy DSL
1 edit | reply to w2goTSI
said by w2goTSI :Pretty weak. And now in another post you were considering increasing log retention time to 6 months? If you are not going to stand up for your customers at least low your log retention to something like 3 weeks.
I think the part that gets me is this.
Early days were Rocky = CEO.
1. Lots of fighting, lawsuits, CRTC filings, marching in ottawa for our rights.
2. Silence, what the hell happened
3. Marc is announced CEO
4. Though Marc had a pile of poop thrown at him during the title switch when cable landed in his lap, the "fight" that Teksavvy is so well known for goes away.
A lot changed during the switch of CEO. Marc i think does a lot more then his brother since he has piles of crap to deal with but why does the aspect of the "big fight" go away now?
I'm no saying to facilite in helping piracy but c'mon.
In another thread someone comments on how it's ridiculous that privacy is the reasoning behind it why people are up in arms.
How is it ridiculous? Do you know how many people are WRONGFULLY accused and now must seek legal representation and mounts of legal bills knowing your ISP doesn't even try to challenge a court order?
This fight is no different, you fought for better rates, better bandwidth allowance, UBB to be squashed, all for what? Now that was fought for, the privacy of several people who truly are ignorantly innocent will now go through possible bankruptcy to fight these trolls.
These guys are frauds because they try with a "Pay up or else" scheme. For this very reason you should be fighting for your customers. If fighting is not best financially for TSI, consider lowering retention on logging. EU does a great job of this and so does an isp in the US now keeping only 14 days worth of logs, and they manage just fine.
In fact an influx of users came once that was announced.
Not everything is about piracy, it's sometimes about what's right. I am not one of those affected, i knew i wouldn't be, but i do know someone that is and this someone has no clue what a torrent is and this user barely knows how to use their email let alone download these dumb ass movies they are talking about.
I'm shocked to say the least. I appreciate the transparency big time, but i'd be lying if i said i wasn't surprised at the we'll block the doors for you for a couple of days, quick go get representation. |
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| reply to neuromancer1
Indeed, if TekSavvy isn't going all out now when the laws are being brought into question, what can we really expect from them in the future, especially if the lawsuits ramp up? |
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Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to Optional
said by Optional:Seriously considering taking my business elsewhere. I want to know that my privacy is just that, PRIVATE.
I'm considering this as well. The lack of privacy is huge issue for me even though I'm not accused. Well that and TSI will be nothing but a huge target for copyright lawsuits after this. |
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| reply to tired
It is quite obvious that Voltage's arguments are based on complete utter crap from Canipre. All it would take is for a technical expert to point that out to a non tek-savvy judge. I think if a technical expert from Teksavvy could help out with that then it would be much appreciated.
If you guys don't stand up against this bs now, then there will be much more of this to come from other silly movie studios. As much as I like Teksavvy, moving back to a larger ISP that actually goes to court for their customers to protect their privacy may be a good idea for some regardless of the bandwidth drawbacks. |
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Reviews:
·TELUS
| reply to ryangard
said by ryangard:With the lack of these laws, any form of refusal can be considered by the courts to be condoning customers to infringe copyright, as they're alleging teksavvy's users have done in the suit. This is BS. See BMG vs Does and Shaw, Rogers, Bell, Telus, and Videotron. »reports.fja.gc.ca/eng/2005/2005f···193.html All of those ISPs except for Videotron stood up for their customers and they suffered no negative consequences. In fact their customers names were never revealed and to this day Gangsta_Cool@KaZaa remains anonymous. See also »cippic.ca/en/file-sharing-lawsuits
ISPs have a duty to protect their customers' privacy. If the court orders them to hand over names and addresses then they have to, but that doesn't mean that TSI should not oppose the motion on Monday. Read what CIPPIC is saying regarding the motion for some ideas of what TSI could and should say: »cippic.ca/sites/default/files/LT···2012.pdf |
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| reply to TSI Marc
Very lame position to take Marc.
I can understand your "keep our hands off" approach to this situation.
But you can at least act as a technical expert during the court proceeding, to show some good faith for your customers rights.
Give expert testimony or statements that an IP doesn't represent an individual, point out that the copy trolls are only targeting teksavvy customers and not other isps, whatever.
Obviously we don't expect you to be the lawyers for the accused. But at least establish some professional statements which could be helpful in your customers legal proceedings.
All you managed to do it in your original post.... is say that some people do things contrary to Canadian law...... but you haven't pointed anything which could work in favour of your customers.
Guilty until proven innocent seems to be the vibe of this whole situation. |
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| reply to bbbc
Pretty weak. And now in another post you were considering increasing log retention time to 6 months? If you are not going to stand up for your customers at least low your log retention to something like 3 weeks. |
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| reply to TSI Marc
Even though I wasn't accused if this, this is still bull.
You roll over for these guys? you'll be getting attacked by every production company this side of the sun. Enjoy that.
Seriously considering taking my business elsewhere. I want to know that my privacy is just that, PRIVATE.
I watch youtube and actually buy music off itunes as far as internet usage goes + a lot of online gaming, but this is just ludicrous. what's next? |
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| reply to TSI Marc
You must simply consider the position TekSavvy is in, and the lack of legal protections allotted to providers in Canada. In the US and EU, there are safe harbor laws that protect service providers from being directly associated to copyright infringement claims and other legal issues as long as they can prove they were acting in good faith. With the lack of these laws, any form of refusal can be considered by the courts to be condoning customers to infringe copyright, as they're alleging teksavvy's users have done in the suit. As such, they did mention they'll be representing themselves and the privacy of their customers, but they simply cannot and will not take a stance on whether or not the customers did or did not infringe on copyright, as they simply don't know, and can't know without breaking privacy laws.
At the end of the day, TekSavvy was transparent in advising customers that their information may be passed to a third party as part of a court order, which is leaps and bounds more than any other company in Canada has been known to do. As for defending the merits, they have no place in doing so. |
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Reviews:
·TELUS
| reply to TSI Marc
This is disappointing and I think the lack of value you place on customer privacy needs to be viewed critically by anyone currently subscribing to TSI or considering doing so in the future. Why could you not have done something along the lines of this from Shaw when they were in a similar position? »www.cippic.ca/sites/default/file···Shaw.pdf
There are many, many accounts of innocent people who have been wrongly accused using the same software and tactics that are being employed here. Tactics that are currently being slammed in the UK and US. Yet it seems like you're willing to just roll over and hand the identities of over 1000 of your customers to these blackmailers without even trying to stand up for their rights, but your conscience is clear because you're giving some of them a few days to find a lawyer and mount their own defense?
Like I said. Disappointing. |
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 bbbc
join:2001-10-02
NorthAmerica
kudos:2
 ·FreedomPop
| reply to TSI Marc
The only thing I ponder is whether rolling over (not knocking you Marc) will open a can of worms for never-ending future requests. Seems like you'll have to have an employee(s) dedicated to this BS.
Isn't there a fee associated with each IP request? I've been confused about the whole $40 to $200 thing.
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Consumerist.com | Consumers Union |
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| reply to TSI Marc
Although TSI is not arguing against the case on the merits.
Couldn't TSI inform the court that an IP address only identifies the residence that the internet connection terminates at, but that it in no way identifies the individual using the internet at the time the alleged infringement took place?
So basically go on record that you will provide the customer information if ordered by the court, but that this customer information does not necessarily indicate the name of the individual who may have infringed copyright? |
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 TSI MarcPremium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:16 | reply to TSI Marc
sorry about the edits.. I had initially written this in reply to an affected user on the blog. I figured I should post it here too. But I changed it to make it so it wasn't talking to anybody specifically.. I missed a few places. I think I got them all now.
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Marc - CEO/TekSavvy |
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 twizlarI dont think so.Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON
kudos:3 | reply to TSI Marc
Seems like you are doing the most you can to be proactive on this. They aren't going after teksavvy at all, opposing their motion would not be wise given the situation.
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Broadline Networks Inc. |
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TSI MarcPremium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:16 | reply to Tx
No, I think you got it right. The notice is what we fought for. I've looked at it a hundred different ways (you have no idea). We just cant wade into the merits of their case.
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Marc - CEO/TekSavvy |
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Txbronx cheers from cheap seatsPremium
join:2008-11-19
kudos:3 | reply to TSI Marc
maybe im tired but youre basically saying you have no plans to go to bat for the customers? im honestly dead tred so if i misunderstood then im sorry |
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