UK_Dave
join:2011-01-27
Powassan, ON
kudos:2 Reviews:
 ·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to dillyhammer
Re: Why we are not opposing motion on Monday. I accept your point and feelings completely, Mike.
Personally, and for now, I'm happy to "feel" that there was a battle to consider, and a war to consider.
Maybe not fighting the battle today, will be seen in the future as the path to victory in the privacy war?
But that's just something of which history will be the arbiter.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/She_Stoops_to_Conquer
Cheers,
Dave |
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DMFlek
join:2011-02-10
Toronto, ON | reply to TSI Marc
The big question now is will TSI be opposing the motion now that they have more time? Also, CIPPIC is looking to get actively involved, so maybe you guys should be talking to each other? Clearly TSI's legal counsel is not as adept at this as CIPPIC is. If they were able to put together such a motion on short notice, that's exactly what your legal counsel should be looking to emulate. |
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| reply to UK_Dave
Re: Why we are not opposing motion on Monday. said by UK_Dave:I wonder if not opposing it was part of the play to buy more time and oppose it later with more preparedness?
This is pure guesswork by me, but TSI did seem to be quite active this morning. The email, the mistakes due to undue haste and volume of data.
Earlier in this thread (maybe another one) I took Marc to task for not opposing...on the grounds that CIPPIC might not be granted automatic standing today. Not being there, it seems to me that the prinicpal reason CIPPIC lives to fight another day is that TSI finally grew some stones today and finally put up some objection towards immediate judgement in favour of Voltage. Barring TSI's stepping up today, I'm reasonably confident that the judge would have ruled in favour of Voltage, notwithstanding the CIPPIC letter - which really carried little weight - until TSI slowed things down and gave the judge some time to think.
The next court date will be (90% CIPPIC / 10% TSI) vs. Voltage.
My read on TSI is that while they generally have good intentions, they are sometime misdirected and governed by flawed strategy. Their/CNOC's initial handling of the UBB situation is a great case-in-point.
It was up to JF to step into the breach to force the case to a different level (even if we are still arguing about the numbers). |
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UK_Dave
join:2011-01-27
Powassan, ON
kudos:2 Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Sympatico
| Not being there, it seems to me that the prinicpal reason CIPPIC lives to fight another day is that TSI finally grew some stones today and finally put up some objection towards immediate judgement in favour of Voltage. Barring TSI's stepping up today, I'm reasonably confident that the judge would have ruled in favour of Voltage, notwithstanding the CIPPIC letter - which really carried little weight - until TSI slowed things down and gave the judge some time to think
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Yes. I wasn't there either but as the tweets came in, I started to think it was heading south when the refusal to let CIPPIC speak came out.
For what it's worth - and you don't strike me as the type who needs validation in any shape or form - but your comment that "CIPPIC lives to fight another day because of TSI growing some stones" could be the Occam's Razor on all this.
Namely they jumped in to protect and preserve what they achieved last time - maybe worried it could be pissed away right there and then by TSI (*for their reasons, which we also know only from public postings). It seems from the timings and the rush job, that they were certainly caught off guard by TSI's stance.
Right now, it's as valid as any other possibility.
Cheers,
Dave
*EDIT |
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 dillyhammerA. Good. Start.Premium,MVM
join:2010-01-09
Hamilton, ON
kudos:9
·Start Communicat..
 ·Cogeco Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·Caneris
| reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:My read on TSI is that while they generally have good intentions, they are sometime misdirected and governed by flawed strategy.
Yep. I don't get it.
Their reaction to all this is a real headscratcher. I would have thought they'd be front and center battling this - and the only real effort I'm seeing is ensuring their asses are covered with as much teflon as possible.
There's a lot of TSI goodwill left in me, but it sure as hell it taking a pounding right about now.
I'm really torn up about this.
At a minimum though, we need to ensure that another copy of any Voltage movie (pieces of shit that they are) never gets paid for on this fucking continent ever again.
Mike
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Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged |
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 TwiztedZeroNine Zero Burp Nine SixPremium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:3
·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:The next court date will be (90% CIPPIC / 10% TSI) vs. Voltage.
+1 Fer Sure!  
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IF TREE = FALL AND PEOPLE = ZERO THEN SOUND = 0
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca |
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 A LurkerPremium
join:2007-10-27
Burlington, ON | reply to dillyhammer
said by dillyhammer:Their reaction to all this is a real headscratcher. I would have thought they'd be front and center battling this - and the only real effort I'm seeing is ensuring their asses are covered with as much teflon as possible. The problem is that they need to function as a service provider. The more involved they get the more likely they'll become a target. I don't believe in Voltage's tactics. I don't believe they have any intention of suing the holders of the 2300 IPs (not sure what number of people this is). Like they've done in the past, they're hoping to scare people into paying them money for movies that few people went to see in the theatres.
The other problem is that a certain percentage of the 2300 may have participated in torrents that seeded these movies. I'm a little suprised to see so many in a short period of time (just based on the specific movies). The problem is that we don't know the percentage... could be 99.99 or could be 50%.
Teksavvy simply cannot afford to get in between someone violating the law and the rights holder. Honestly, I don't think it's fair to expect them to. It will take a lot of resources, and they can't fight the batttle. They're simply the wrong person. It's unfortunate that this then pushes the onus on to the users. Hopefully CIPPIC will make enough headway in January to stop this kind of crap. Unfortunately with the previous request in Quebec, I think the request will have precendent behind it. It's going to be a tough fight. Especially as I suspect this initial large request will be used to extort money from this first group... to go after the next (even larger) group.
And back to that percentage, it does mean that somewhere in the middle of this will be people who have never distributed a Voltage movie but may end up with the letters after all. It will be very difficult to prove a negative without it sounding like a kid saying 'the dog ate my homework'. Doesn't mean it never happened, but it's not always the reason.  |
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lleader
join:2011-01-01
Mississauga, ON | reply to TSI Marc
I think you guys badmouthing TSI were sucked in just like the bad guys. I believe TSI knew what cards they were going to play today - they just weren't about to discuss it here in the forum and tip their hand. How many times were they asked if all the notices were out to all the affected people? They never answered directly. They said they weren't going to fight it - but lo and behold they came armed. |
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| reply to dillyhammer
said by dillyhammer:said by MaynardKrebs:My read on TSI is that while they generally have good intentions, they are sometime misdirected and governed by flawed strategy.
Yep. I don't get it. They played voltage at their own game, as best as I see it. |
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Reviews:
·TELUS
| reply to lleader
said by lleader:I think you guys badmouthing TSI were sucked in just like the bad guys. I believe TSI knew what cards they were going to play today - they just weren't about to discuss it here in the forum and tip their hand. Are you really suggesting that Teksavvy deliberately misinformed some people that they were targets when they weren't, and at the same time not inform people who were? I don't believe it.
In fact, it's more than a little disturbing. How many other mistakes are there in the data that haven't been noticed -- either made by TSI or by CaniPre? One of Shaw's objections for not wanting to reveal the owners of IP addresses back in the BMG case was that they didn't want to open themselves up to lawsuits from their customers if there were mistakes made: "Moreover, if Shaw were asked to speculate or required to guess at this type of conclusion
about the identity of users or subscribers, Shaw is concerned that it would be required to assume a liability for incorrect information. Shaw might well find itself having to respond to a financial or other type of claim or to a complaint under PIPEDA by a subscriber if the conclusions or guesses were incorrect."
Which all leads me to wonder... If somebody is falsely accused and they can prove their innocence, do they have the right to sue TSI and/or Voltage for costs and damages? I'm starting to feel more and more sorry for Teksavvy and the unenviable position where they've been placed. |
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Bhruic
join:2002-11-27
Toronto, ON
kudos:2 Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to lleader
said by lleader:I think you guys badmouthing TSI were sucked in just like the bad guys.
I honestly have no idea why so many people think that no one from Voltage is reading this forum. It's almost guarunteed that they are. People should be acting accordingly. |
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Reviews:
·TELUS
| said by Bhruic:I honestly have no idea why so many people think that no one from Voltage is reading this forum. Stop blaming your losses on piracy. If you want to make more money then make films that people would actually want to go see at first-run cinemas instead of taking great actors and putting them in films that leave people wondering if it's worth taking a chance before dropping $1.50 in a RedBox. |
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lleader
join:2011-01-01
Mississauga, ON | reply to tired
said by tired:Are you really suggesting that Teksavvy deliberately misinformed some people that they were targets when they weren't, and at the same time not inform people who were?
I am absolutely NOT impling this. I am saying that at some point they realized this was happening and that they needed more time. But to have discussed that in this forum would have allowed the bad guys to prepare a more detailed challenge to this. |
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 mlernerPremium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5 | reply to tired
Agreed. I tend to think piracy is a by-product of poor offering. Whether it be low quality production or limited options to buy (i.e. no digital distribution)
Threatening to put people in jail at best will stop a few people from torrenting but it won't encourage anyone to pay for the product. Many Corporations have learned that the hard way. |
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1 edit | reply to lleader
said by lleader:I think you guys badmouthing TSI were sucked in just like the bad guys. I believe TSI knew what cards they were going to play today - they just weren't about to discuss it here in the forum and tip their hand. How many times were they asked if all the notices were out to all the affected people? They never answered directly. They said they weren't going to fight it - but lo and behold they came armed.
Actually knowing what resulted today, they could have very easily argued they needed more time and been provided that by the courts leaving them to oppose the motion to begin with. Now, they still will not be able to oppose, and leaving it up to the CIPPIC to get involved. They are still not fighting for customers privacy, which is a bit concerning imo.
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My Canadian Tech Podcast: »canadiantechnetwork.podbean.com/
My Self Help and Digital Policy Blog: »jkoblovsky.wordpress.com/
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| reply to TSI Marc
A very sincere kudos to Marc and Teksavvy. Regardless of what is being said in here, there are those that truly appreciate your efforts and what you have done. You've given those affected the best gift you could have.... more time. Call me a fanboy or whatever, but realize that this is not Teksavvy's fight. They have done what they can without getting dragged into this themselves. My suggestion: take what you have been given and do something. |
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| While I already have much of my extended family with TSI, I'm going to push to get the rest moved. |
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