dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
54478
share rss forum feed


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
reply to MaynardKrebs

Re: Why we are not opposing motion on Monday.

said by MaynardKrebs:

TSI makes no money on this, even if they cost it out @ $200/IP once all costs are factored in.

That's about 460,000 bananas.

Are they sending the data over to voltage etched on solid gold plates? Or do the 4 staff needed to sort this out make 115,000 a month?



They, like everyone attached to this POS lawsuit, will be inflating the hell out of their costs to rake in the bananas.

Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged

thm655321

join:2003-09-01
Canada
To ensure that Voltage passes the test, the court should make it a condition of the provision of the names/addresses that Voltage be required to initiate proceedings against each person they wish to deal with prior to being allowed to send any form of settlement letter to such persons.

That in and of itself might very well put the nail in Voltage's strategy.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
My buddy made this excel spreadsheet, linking all the movies Voltage is suing for, as well as how much they made in theaters...

Its certainly interesting, and shows WHY they're doing the lawsuits: many of them bombed out completely, and only 1 of the movies was even decent.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
That's funny and apparently there were some high rated movies 7+ but didn't make much at box office. Probably would be considered cult-ish. But that's Hollywood, majority want flashy marketable movies.

Guess Voltage is the only who doesn't know the business or is in denial.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to resa1983
When I was at walmart the other day, these titles didn't even exist. So I wonder how much "revenue" was really lost.

But, then again, being in Quebec means it just may not be available here since they have to release in both languages. Might be available in the rest of Canada though. No clue.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to mlerner
said by mlerner:

Guess Voltage is the only who doesn't know the business

Something I noticed that they said over and over again in regards to lawsuits here, the US and the UK, is that going after people is an after-market revenue stream.

So I think they know the troll business very well.


drjp81

join:2006-01-09
canada

1 edit
reply to TSI Marc
Deleted:Already getting flamed.
--
Cheers!

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
Wow.. Long spiel for nothing..

Read the thread, especially Marc's posts from pages 23 to 25.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

Marbles_00

join:2005-02-14
Hamilton, ON
reply to resa1983
@resa1983

You might want to get your buddy to verify the list. I was astonished to find the movie Conviction there. Looking up the IMDB, no where is Voltage listed or associated to this movie. Looking at Voltage's website, no where is this movie listed. Which is good because I enjoyed it and to find out that it may have been associated to this scum company made me vomit in my mouth a little.

I think your buddy meant to list Maximum Conviction (which he does later list anyways). Let's hope that was in error.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
said by Marbles_00:

@resa1983

You might want to get your buddy to verify the list. I was astonished to find the movie Conviction there. Looking up the IMDB, no where is Voltage listed or associated to this movie. Looking at Voltage's website, no where is this movie listed. Which is good because I enjoyed it and to find out that it may have been associated to this scum company made me vomit in my mouth a little.

I think your buddy meant to list Maximum Conviction (which he does later list anyways). Let's hope that was in error.

You're right! Updated file.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

backness

join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2
reply to TSI Marc
vote for Harper! all of your wildest dreams will come true!


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
said by backness:

vote for Harper! all of your wildest dreams will come true!

Only 2 years, 9 months, 27 days, 8 hours, 24 minutes until election day! Voters in Canada will go to the polls on Monday, October 19, 2015. Then finally we can oust Harper and install someone new for once. Oh how I can't wait.
--
----|- Crazed Techie Crossing -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:

(a) the applicant must have a bona fide case against the unknown alleged wrongdoer;
...(snip)...
(e) the public interests in favour of disclosure must outweigh the legitimate privacy concerns.

Marc,

In regards to all this and your points up above, do they not have to show just cause as to why all these people have to be treated as the same? That is, can you (like other neutral parties in the past have done), or CIPPIC, not show that all these people are not covered by this same lawsuit (joinder) of mass "commercial distribution and profiting"?

kind of like what I'm getting at here:
»Re: Voltage-Hurt Locker Lawsuit Round 2 Against Teksavvy Users

Is it really in the public's interest to give the info and financial records of someone I spoofed? Keep in mind too that Voltage wants the financial history of all these people to try and prove their claim of mass "commercial distribution and profiting". So they are going in blind and making this up until proven otherwise.

And again, the "the unknown alleged wrongdoer" with that Ontario teksavvy IP could be me sitting here in Quebec spoofing it, or the kid next door on your clients unsecured wireless.

Do you, as the neutral ISP (just like the ISP's in the states have done, yet remained neutral), have to sit there with blinders on? Or can you remove the blinders, just look at the surface of all this and say there is no reason or just cause for "joinder" here and make a court filing to this affect. Thus your move to oppose the release on a mass scale of your customers private info which in turn will lead to the release of your customers financial history over to voltage (as their filing states).

So while remaining neutral to the allegations brought before the court, on the surface of all this, in regards to points A & E, it is rather preposterous to think these are all "commercial distributors that are profiting" that require the release of info (which thus leads to the release of financial history). Nor should all these people be treated as one mass filings under "commercial distribution and profiting".

While you have to remain neutral to the merits of the allegations, you don't have to remain looking like an idiot by believing all these people should be lumped into the same barrel (ie. Joinder).

No?

cynic10

join:2011-02-05
reply to TSI Marc
I've been keeping tabs and reading up on those copyright issues in the US. The methods applied by those copyright trolls are nothing more than extortions as we've seen cases in the US and others. And copyright trolls made a huge amount of money off of it and they know it.

They are no different than the mafia. Their pay up or else scheme is along with their shaky "proof" are extortions.

And whats more pathetic is no ISPs are willing to stand up to them. And depending on what happens after we all know is going to set precedence which is why TSI's decision is a major let down to customers like me. TSI is already dead in my eyes.

scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1
Well the way I look at it is if Teksavvy throws my personal information to Voltage because of court order or not they better have all their T crossed and I's dotted because my lawyers will be after Teksavvy for beach of privacy and also disclosing of information with out consent. You better have some damn good proof and evidence for handing over my personal information to a rouge company just because your scared of a little paper and won't fight it. It's called an Appeal Teksavvy, learn how to do one and file it if these crack junkies do get the order they want (blow jobs up for the judge I bet to get a court order). All I'm saying is that if Teksavvy discloses our personal information with out having 150% for sure evidence that it was our computer and not a random wifi encounter on my router that downloaded or shared something then they better take a step back and ask themselves if they are ready for the crap storm that will befall them from a lot of angry off customers...Next Head Line Reads """TekSavvy claims bankruptcy due to having to pay lawyers to fight against thousands of civil claims against the company due to violations of the Information and privacy act and the consumer Protection Act when customer information was disclosed to a third party with out accurate verification first.""

scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1
Going to TAP our phone service we have through you too TS??? The Government wants that you know.. I agree with the poster about Teksavvy being dead to him for not fighting


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
said by scorpido:

Going to TAP our phone service we have through you too TS??? The Government wants that you know.. I agree with the poster about Teksavvy being dead to him for not fighting

Well, good luck - the bigger incumbents will do even less on your behalf while continuing to gouge you with throttles & caps in the meanwhiles.

So whutcher gona do?

Go analog?
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca

scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to scorpido
I run a Internet service myself called Bluwest Inc. www.bluwest.com We have had a few of the emails from these trolls sent to us and I always reply to them with the same thing. Don't waste my time unless you have the proof that the persons computer whose IP your after did download the content or share it and that they did not already own the movie that they were downloading and a court order signed by a currently sitting Judge in the province of Ontario with details of the time, date and IP address and the proof requested above, until then I am not going to cut off a paying customers internet service because of some rouge US based company nor release any information to you. If you just give me a list of IP's to assign names to then it is going to cost you $125 and hour for me to do that and our IP's are all internal so you have a IP of ###.###.###.### well guess what, there's over 200 customers that use that IP. Have fun.


SystemCrash

join:2004-08-28
Mississauga, ON
reply to cynic10
In US Verizon is standing up to copyright trolls »torrentfreak.com/verizon-determi···-121211/


John234234

@teksavvy.com
reply to TSI Marc
I must say I am horribly disappointed in Teksavvy's decision to just hand over our info like that and give in without a fight.

I used to promote them and really like their customer services and got friends and family to sign up with them. But after hearing their decision to not oppose the motion has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

I will be looking for other alternative ISP if possible. The way the copyright trolls go about doing things are wrong. To bend down over like this to the copyright trolls and their Pay up or else scheme is sickening. I expected much better from TSI.

FYI, I rarely download movies if at all. But this decision is a major disappointment to me and I will make sure others will hear about it too.


pnjunction
Teksavvy Extreme
Premium
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
said by John234234 :

I must say I am horribly disappointed in Teksavvy's decision to just hand over our info like that and give in without a fight.

I will be looking for other alternative ISP if possible.

So which ISP is it again that has shown they will fight a court order like this?

cynic10

join:2011-02-05

1 recommendation

Seeing as this is the first time something of this magnitude has occured in Canada, I would expect TSI to fight it. Especially when we know the outcome of it will impact what happens next to all of ISP in Canada.

Give them an inch and they will ask for a mile, ever heard that saying?

If anything, TSI should take heed from this Australian ISP.

ISP Walks Out of Piracy Talks: “We’re Not The Internet Police”
»torrentfreak.com/isp-walks-out-o···-121217/


pizz
1gbps is all the rage.
Premium
join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 recommendation

reply to pnjunction
said by pnjunction:

said by John234234 :

I must say I am horribly disappointed in Teksavvy's decision to just hand over our info like that and give in without a fight.

I will be looking for other alternative ISP if possible.

So which ISP is it again that has shown they will fight a court order like this?

That is the problem. Canadian ISPs just give in. As with Verizon here in the USA, they fight these type of dunning letters / ip requests etc.. And they appeal each court order for releasing said IPs, contact info etc..

In my humble opinion. Marc, is just playing the fence on this. Waiting to see which side wins in court. If the decision goes the way of the trolls: He can state, look we complied, so don't label my company as, it's OK to be a pirate and do copyright infringement deeds.

If the law now states : Copyright Troll based companies, cannot just demand IPs, Customer Information from ISP companies. He can now say, we fought the good fought, i was always there protecting my customers. How! Because I didn't do anything.

In my many, many years on this earth. I've dealt with every type of CEO, Chairman's of the board, board members, Presidents, Owners, VPs etc.. They're trained to play both sides of the fence.
--
It's ok to say, 'I don't know'. It's even better when someone takes the time to explain what you, 'don't know'.


AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to cynic10
said by cynic10:

Seeing as this is the first time something of this magnitude has occured in Canada, I would expect TSI to fight it. Especially when we know the outcome of it will impact what happens next to all of ISP in Canada.

Give them an inch and they will ask for a mile, ever heard that saying?

If anything, TSI should take heed from this Australian ISP.

ISP Walks Out of Piracy Talks: “We’re Not The Internet Police”
»torrentfreak.com/isp-walks-out-o···-121217/

Someone will be fighting it. CIPPIC has a letter requesting a motion to intervene. The troll will have to have enough proof to compel the judge to grant release of the customers' information as the final decision will rest with the judge. I would imagine some of the alleged might challenge as well if there is a case with chance of reasonable success.

I don't know why people are expecting TSI to challenge this. Every customer should know the terms of service they agreed to when they signed up for TSI service or any other provider's service for that matter (they are all basically the same). How you use your connection is your responsibility not TSI's. No customer information has been released or will be released without a lawful court order. That has always been TSI's position (even when Rocky was in charge) and it has been said here many times before and in their privacy policy as well.
--
If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled?? BHell... A Public Futility.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

2 edits
said by AkFubar:

said by cynic10:

Seeing as this is the first time something of this magnitude has occured in Canada, I would expect TSI to fight it. Especially when we know the outcome of it will impact what happens next to all of ISP in Canada.

Give them an inch and they will ask for a mile, ever heard that saying?

If anything, TSI should take heed from this Australian ISP.

ISP Walks Out of Piracy Talks: “We’re Not The Internet Police”
»torrentfreak.com/isp-walks-out-o···-121217/

Someone will be fighting it. CIPPIC has a letter requesting a motion to intervene. The troll will have to have enough proof to compel the judge to grant release of the customers' information as the final decision will rest with the judge. I would imagine some of the alleged might challenge as well if there is a case with chance of reasonable success.

I don't know why people are expecting TSI to challenge this. Every customer should know the terms of service they agreed to when they signed up for TSI service or any other provider's service for that matter (they are all basically the same). How you use your connection is your responsibility not TSI's. No customer information has been released or will be released without a lawful court order. That has always been TSI's position (even when Rocky was in charge) and it has been said here many times before and in their privacy policy as well.

Everytime i see you post it's like you've been hired to act as a fanboi. For once i'd love to see an unbiased opinion.

I say this based on your one line "How you use your connection is your responsibility". They aren't guilty dude not yet. Stop acting as if they've already been proven guilty or even the person responsible. You sound like a PR rep for TSI sometimes

Are you honestly so far up their butt or head so deep in the sand that this isn't reality until everyone is by law required to secure their routers/connections from the outside world?

Have you ignored the spoofing topics in your quest to honestly disregard every consumer concern that you simply turn to immediately jump on TSI's defence team every time?

I'm honestly not trying to fight or argue with you, but it astonishes me how much people can truly fanboi a company and not even know it. Microsoft vs Apple for an example.

You're probably a decent guy in real life, no doubt about it but honestly stop being so biased and read between the lines sometimes.

until there is a law, of which strictly prohibits any unsecured routers being manufactured, that requires each user by-law to secure their routers with a minimum encryption your assertion is insane.


AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

2 edits
said by Tx:

said by AkFubar:

said by cynic10:

Seeing as this is the first time something of this magnitude has occured in Canada, I would expect TSI to fight it. Especially when we know the outcome of it will impact what happens next to all of ISP in Canada.

Give them an inch and they will ask for a mile, ever heard that saying?

If anything, TSI should take heed from this Australian ISP.

ISP Walks Out of Piracy Talks: “We’re Not The Internet Police”
»torrentfreak.com/isp-walks-out-o···-121217/

Someone will be fighting it. CIPPIC has a letter requesting a motion to intervene. The troll will have to have enough proof to compel the judge to grant release of the customers' information as the final decision will rest with the judge. I would imagine some of the alleged might challenge as well if there is a case with chance of reasonable success.

I don't know why people are expecting TSI to challenge this. Every customer should know the terms of service they agreed to when they signed up for TSI service or any other provider's service for that matter (they are all basically the same). How you use your connection is your responsibility not TSI's. No customer information has been released or will be released without a lawful court order. That has always been TSI's position (even when Rocky was in charge) and it has been said here many times before and in their privacy policy as well.

Everytime i see you post it's like you've been hired to act as a fanboi. For once i'd love to see an unbiased opinion.

I say this based on your one line "How you use your connection is your responsibility". They aren't guilty dude not yet. Stop acting as if they've already been proven guilty or even the person responsible. You sound like a PR rep for TSI sometimes

Are you honestly so far up their butt or head so deep in the sand that this isn't reality until everyone is by law required to secure their routers/connections from the outside world?

Have you ignored the spoofing topics in your quest to honestly disregard every consumer concern that you simply turn to immediately jump on TSI's defence team every time?

I'm honestly not trying to fight or argue with you, but it astonishes me how much people can truly fanboi a company and not even know it. Microsoft vs Apple for an example.

You're probably a decent guy in real life, no doubt about it but honestly stop being so biased and read between the lines sometimes.

until there is a law, of which strictly prohibits any unsecured routers being manufactured, that requires each user by-law to secure their routers with a minimum encryption your assertion is insane.

Look emotions are running on high here so I'll forgive your B$. You'll notice I used "alleged" instead of "guilty" in my original post. Second I really don't care what you think of me or my perspective. It changes nothing. The situation is still the same and TSI's position is well known as I stated. So flame someone else. Oh and by the way... Cancel that Merry Christmas.
--
If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled?? BHell... A Public Futility.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to cynic10
said by cynic10:

Seeing as this is the first time something of this magnitude has occured in Canada, I would expect TSI to fight it. Especially when we know the outcome of it will impact what happens next to all of ISP in Canada.

Give them an inch and they will ask for a mile, ever heard that saying?

If anything, TSI should take heed from this Australian ISP.

ISP Walks Out of Piracy Talks: “We’re Not The Internet Police”
»torrentfreak.com/isp-walks-out-o···-121217/

And those are just talks, ie They don't have to be there.

If a court order comes down telling Teksavvy they have to hand over the information, Teksavvy has no choice but to comply, otherwise they're out of business next day.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
said by resa1983:

said by cynic10:

Seeing as this is the first time something of this magnitude has occured in Canada, I would expect TSI to fight it. Especially when we know the outcome of it will impact what happens next to all of ISP in Canada.

Give them an inch and they will ask for a mile, ever heard that saying?

If anything, TSI should take heed from this Australian ISP.

ISP Walks Out of Piracy Talks: “We’re Not The Internet Police”
»torrentfreak.com/isp-walks-out-o···-121217/

And those are just talks, ie They don't have to be there.

If a court order comes down telling Teksavvy they have to hand over the information, Teksavvy has no choice but to comply, otherwise they're out of business next day.

Out of business? lol... little bit of an exaggeration. We have an appeal process for a reason in north america whereas they can defend the release. Just because a court order says something doesn't mean you jump.

And no, it's not just talks. If you actually read the article, it states the ISP is saying they aren't policing their customers, it's not their job.


JEDI

join:2005-04-11
Longueuil
kudos:1
reply to hm
said by hm :

When I was at walmart the other day, these titles didn't even exist. So I wonder how much "revenue" was really lost.

But, then again, being in Quebec means it just may not be available here since they have to release in both languages. Might be available in the rest of Canada though. No clue.

No they don't have to release in both languages. They only have to do that for the theatrical run. While most DVDs and BDs do have a french track, you can find a bunch that don't have it. There is no law that says that a movie on DVD or BD must have a french audio track.


hm

@videotron.ca
said by JEDI:

said by hm :

When I was at walmart the other day, these titles didn't even exist. So I wonder how much "revenue" was really lost.

But, then again, being in Quebec means it just may not be available here since they have to release in both languages. Might be available in the rest of Canada though. No clue.

No they don't have to release in both languages. They only have to do that for the theatrical run. While most DVDs and BDs do have a french track, you can find a bunch that don't have it. There is no law that says that a movie on DVD or BD must have a french audio track.

I'm not too sure about that.

This is even the law when releases make it to a video rental store.

I don't know your age, even but back in 1990 there was a coplete ban by Paramount Pictures here in Quebec. Paramount Pictures refused to releases movies (or dubs) in French and absorb the cost of that.

So movies like "The Hunt for Red October", released in 1990, And all the Star Trek movies were not available in Quebec only due to the language laws.

In addition to this, the major games that came out a couple of years ago for consoles at Xmas time like, "Rock Band" and/or "Guitar hero's" were not available in Quebec, at all. You could buy the guitar or drum-set for these games. That's it. If you wanted the actual game you had to drive to Ontario or the states to pick it up. And I did this for a few people so they could get their kid their game for Xmas.

Same is true for software in the stores.

So you might want to double check that, and also double check the laws, as well as the history of it all going back since the late 80's.

As far as I know, nothing has changed for retail sales and rentals in this regard.