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citizenkane

@bell.ca
reply to d_source

Re: Why we are not opposing motion on Monday.

i would not call it extortion.
i mean they broke the law.
it's either you settle outside of court or you take your chances with the law. simple as that. don't like it.. don't pirate.

said by d_source:

What I don't get is why so many people seem to think that CIPPIC will be able to win this on their own. Is everyone putting their eggs into that basket only? I see a lot of people posting here about what could/should be done, about what TSI should do, and CIPPIC, but I haven't read anyone's post that they have contacted a lawyer and that their lawyer will be present on Monday. Unless that happens, I see this as an easy victory for Voltage, sadly. And then the extortion letters will begin and other companies will follow the leader. This is so wrong in so many ways and yet I don't see anyone defending themselves properly.


Tong

join:2012-12-11
r3t 38x

We don't like the settle price they are asking, so we will see you in court. However, I have not seen one case where someone file defense in court and then they take the person to court.


JohnDoe187

join:2013-01-04
reply to citizenkane

said by citizenkane :

i would not call it extortion.
i mean they broke the law.
it's either you settle outside of court or you take your chances with the law. simple as that. don't like it.. don't pirate.

1. The last time I check you are innocent until proven guilty. The motion is against Teksavvy to hand over the Does information. Maybe you should try to read carefully and thoroughly before you make a ridiculous post.

2. It is extortion and it seems all the professionals disagree with you.

FatBastid

join:2012-12-27
Toronto, ON
reply to citizenkane

said by citizenkane :

i would not call it extortion.
i mean they broke the law.
it's either you settle outside of court or you take your chances with the law. simple as that. don't like it.. don't pirate.

That's a somewhat ignorant statement on your part. Because you don't know if "they", being ALL the people being accused, broke the law.

And even if "they" did, if you've been reading this thread you should know that it's not the point. This situation is like doing 10 km/h over the speed limit on an empty road and then later, based on a picture taken by a 3rd party, receiving a summons for dangerous driving. Speeding 10 km over the limit is about a $50 fine. A dangerous driving conviction results in a criminal record and (in Ontario) an automatic one-year license suspension (for a first offense). The charges are ridiculous, the evidence to support them even more so, but now you have to spend thousands of dollars appearing in court and fighting the system. You are of the opinion that there would be nothing wrong with such a situation, and those who don't like it, shouldn't drive. All I can say is, wow.

cynic10

join:2011-02-05

1 edit
reply to citizenkane

said by citizenkane :

i would not call it extortion.
i mean they broke the law.
it's either you settle outside of court or you take your chances with the law. simple as that. don't like it.. don't pirate.

Please go educate yourself further on the matter before making such statements. You come off as very ignorant and I'm trying to be nice here.

God forbid, if you or your family members ever get mistakenly accused of pirating, I'd like to see you eat your words and put your money where your mouth is, assuming you or they can even afford to settle.

banishtrolls

join:2013-01-11
Montreal, QC
reply to TSI Marc

Marc - You really need to decide that you will not be a "sell-out" and you really need to fight this as hard as you can, for your sake and your customers. Don't set a precedent by simply rolling over.

Do you think the 2000 will still want to be your customers? What about the next batch of 2000, and the next after that? What about the people like me who recommend TSI to their customers and shun companies who willingly hurt their own customers? Don't expect any business from me if you continue on the road of indifference (not my problem.)

Privacy is a huge unresolved issue vis-a-vis the Internet. Ask Facebook.
If you have a good conscience, you should already know you're making a mistake. Don't take the easy road. Don't be evil. Listen to what the majority view here says (you are wrong.)

Even if you don't win, at least you will be able to hold your head up high and say "I did my best."



random

@teksavvy.com
reply to citizenkane

It is a civil court not a criminal court. It is not like the RCMP caught these people, but the plaintive claimed that they do.

At this point, it is their word vs everyone else. This first part is the release of users information. Until the actual trial case(s) (if at all) on the infringement, can't even say they have broken the law or not.

These 2000+ people from an ISP are being sued for "commercial" copyright infringement which is highly unlikely.



shikotee

join:2007-01-11
Canada
kudos:2
reply to TSI Marc

An interesting column on the lack of representation in court:
»www.financialpost.com/m/wp/legal···entation


d_source

join:2011-01-18

What a great article. That's exactly the way I see it. Of 2300+ invloved, no one will be there to quash this. CIPPIC will not be granted to intervene and TSI will just sit there and do nothing even though they very well could. And all those names, most of which i assume are not guilty, will be fed to the dogs. I feel Monday will be a sad sad day to be a Canadian.


Jaxom

join:2012-03-10
East York, ON
reply to TSI Marc

Civil court issues should not be grounds for personal data to be disclosed.

Unfortunately the Conservatives are trying to make it possible that cops don't even need a search warrant any more to get our personal information. Absolutely offensive fascist laws.


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to TSI Marc

Keep in mind that the financial post did a puff piece the day after the first hearing, about nothing, without including any info. All it did was scare.

Seriously though, I don't think the judge will continue the hearings without ruling on CIPPIC's motion to intervene first, as they'd just have to go over stuff again. It wastes time, and everyone wants this over & done with.

All they're doing is trying to sell subs, and keep the issue in the limelight so they can do a 'major' piece come Monday.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


booj

join:2011-02-07
Richmond, ON

said by resa1983:

Seriously though, I don't think the judge will continue the hearings without ruling on CIPPIC's motion to intervene first, as they'd just have to go over stuff again. It wastes time, and everyone wants this over & done with.

Wouldn't it be wasting a different court's time though? Judges are often happy to punt an issue down the road if they can.

TSI is playing with fire here. Their savvy customers, which for ages has been their core business, will find other providers en mass if the CIPPIC motion is denied and customer records handed over to this troll. It's a fundamental betryal of their trust.

d_source

join:2011-01-18

If I were a TSI customer and my info was released i'd be upset with them as well, but you can't put the entire blame on them. They gave 2300+ people plenty of time to find a lawyer and be represented anonymously in court on Monday. If these people choose to not fight it themselves and HOPE to have someone else fight on their behalf, then it's on them if they lose, not just on TSI.


booj

join:2011-02-07
Richmond, ON

said by d_source:

If I were a TSI customer and my info was released i'd be upset with them as well, but you can't put the entire blame on them. They gave 2300+ people plenty of time to find a lawyer and be represented anonymously in court on Monday. If these people choose to not fight it themselves and HOPE to have someone else fight on their behalf, then it's on them if they lose, not just on TSI.

True, but why pay a lawyer to fight anonymously for you at this point? Hiring a lawyer at this stage sets up an individual for a lengthy and expensive court battle. We all agree that any infringement case brought by Voltage to an individual would eventually be tossed, once a judge is made to consider the methods used by canipre etc. To me, that would be the appropriate time to find a lawyer.

Furthermore, looking at the list of movies allegedly pirated, I'd almost suspect Voltage of going after the dumbest pirates they can find . I'd almost say there's more to this fishing expedition by Voltage than meets the eye...

jkoblovsky

join:2011-09-27
Keswick, ON
kudos:2
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

Keep in mind that the financial post did a puff piece the day after the first hearing, about nothing, without including any info. All it did was scare.

Seriously though, I don't think the judge will continue the hearings without ruling on CIPPIC's motion to intervene first, as they'd just have to go over stuff again. It wastes time, and everyone wants this over & done with.

All they're doing is trying to sell subs, and keep the issue in the limelight so they can do a 'major' piece come Monday.

Actually the column shikotee quoted seems to be balanced. I'm a bit surprised by this. Major media outlets have their own interests with respect to copyright reform. There were "puff" pieces from all major news outlets the day after the hearing that was strongly one sided around copyright issues. The reporter that wrote this is also a "reformed lawyer".

Traditionally it's the blogosphere that is responsible for providing information to make sure there is a balanced view to readers. Something that seems to be represented on my stats over the past month. The vast majority that are coming to my blog with respect to this issue, are doing so via searches from Google on Tekksavvy and Voltage, and there is A LOT of people searching on this right now.
--
My Canadian Tech Podcast: »canadiantechnetwork.podbean.com/
My Self Help and Digital Policy Blog: »jkoblovsky.wordpress.com/

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to booj

said by booj:

said by resa1983:

Seriously though, I don't think the judge will continue the hearings without ruling on CIPPIC's motion to intervene first, as they'd just have to go over stuff again. It wastes time, and everyone wants this over & done with.

Wouldn't it be wasting a different court's time though? Judges are often happy to punt an issue down the road if they can.

TSI is playing with fire here. Their savvy customers, which for ages has been their core business, will find other providers en mass if the CIPPIC motion is denied and customer records handed over to this troll. It's a fundamental betryal of their trust.

Already happening, when u combine Teksavvy prices which are higher, than almost all other indys, with there lack of willingness to Oppose disclosure its a no brainer, i've been with teksavvy 5 years now and am leaving for a different company this hearing being a major factor, and as much as i love teksavvy i hope they lose thousands over this. so they get the message, and other isps do as well.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

d_source

join:2011-01-18
reply to booj

I'd pay the lawyer at this point to make sure that it doesn't go any further. It'll be cheaper to do so now and the issue will have been completely resolved, which peace of mind is worth a lot in these matters as well IMO.


Who7

join:2012-12-18
reply to jkoblovsky

said by jkoblovsky:

Traditionally it's the blogosphere that is responsible for providing information to make sure there is a balanced view to readers. Something that seems to be represented on my stats over the past month. The vast majority that are coming to my blog with respect to this issue, are doing so via searches from Google on Tekksavvy and Voltage, and there is A LOT of people searching on this right now.

Let's make sure that the light show that TSI rolled over based on a cold calculating business decision of what was cheaper for them rather then concerns about their customers privacy.

And while we are at it, strip away the attempt by TSI to spin the delay as "concern" and "care" for their customers. All they did was what the law requires of them to do so to begin with.

Keep shinning the light on them.

JohnDoe187

join:2013-01-04

This is so true I think a lot of ppl where mislead to think TSI gave 2 sh$ts via Marc's blog and then bam as the trial neared Marc post some ridiculous Why we are not opposing in DSLReport and not his blog??! Get real...


jkoblovsky

join:2011-09-27
Keswick, ON
kudos:2

1 edit

said by JohnDoe187:

This is so true I think a lot of ppl where mislead to think TSI gave 2 sh$ts via Marc's blog and then bam as the trial neared Marc post some ridiculous Why we are not opposing in DSLReport and not his blog??! Get real...

I think it's representative of a much larger issue within copyright policy, and that is that there are too many in the private sector that directly protect themselves and run for the door around copyright issues, rather than thinking of the people that ultimately are effected by this.

Copyright policy is intimidating for a lot of reasons, but the reality of where we are with copyright policy, companies should be less concerned about the implications in sticking up for their customers. From SOPA/PIPA, to ACTA and the TPP the copyright lobby is loosing huge within law around the globe. The copyright lobby is now forced to "troll" as a result. They've lost the ideological battle on this.

The thing that really peeves me off about all of this, knowing how weak the copyright lobbies position is, that we're still faced with some in the private sector hiding behind rocks, rather than taking on their direct responsibility under law. That to me, no matter how this turns out with the CIPPIC is wrong, and if history has taught us anything around copyright and how consumers react to this, that may very well change in the days, weeks, months ahead.

In short, there's more of us then there are of them. As a business, I would be more concerned on what consumers think, than any penalties or threats from the IP lobby who's in an extremely weak position within law in the first place. Consumers right now, hold the balance of power on copyright policy globally. And that's represented by the political reaction to not just the EU on ACTA, but also within US politics as well:

»thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valle···congress

Copyright policy also seems to be the #1 issue in Canada as well when you look at the digital economy. Traditional media seems to have a lot less credibility then us bloggers do on the issue:

»wordsbynowak.com/2013/01/02/statistics/

--
My Canadian Tech Podcast: »canadiantechnetwork.podbean.com/
My Self Help and Digital Policy Blog: »jkoblovsky.wordpress.com/

JohnDoe187

join:2013-01-04

Amen to this and could agree more. It's just a sad sad situation and attitude.


jkoblovsky

join:2011-09-27
Keswick, ON
kudos:2

In Canada recently there seems to be a silent majority here watching what's going on with this case in particular. There seems to be quite the silent majority that has yet to chime in. Something that is very representative in my own blog stats, but check out google trends:

»www.google.com/trends/explore#q=···y&cmpt=q

Major spike in searches relating to this ISP after headlines broke in December about this, and it's peaked in the past week or so. Lots of interest in this, far beyond this forum.
--
My Canadian Tech Podcast: »canadiantechnetwork.podbean.com/
My Self Help and Digital Policy Blog: »jkoblovsky.wordpress.com/


cynic10

join:2011-02-05

2 edits

said by jkoblovsky:

In Canada recently there seems to be a silent majority here watching what's going on with this case in particular. There seems to be quite the silent majority that has yet to chime in. Something that is very representative in my own blog stats, but check out google trends:

»www.google.com/trends/explore#q=···y&cmpt=q

Major spike in searches relating to this ISP after headlines broke in December about this, and it's peaked in the past week or so. Lots of interest in this, far beyond this forum.

That's good to know that even though they're silent that they're not totally ignorant or oblivious to the issues going on here.

We need to stomp out those trolls hard here in Canada otherwise can expect to hear a lot more of that crap that goes on in the US here when other US companies take notice of how easy it is to toy the system.

jkoblovsky

join:2011-09-27
Keswick, ON
kudos:2

I think mostly right now this is tied to TSI customers trying to get more info on what's going on from what my blog stats seem to be suggesting and with what google trends is reporting on copyright etc.

However, it's important to keep an eye on google trends especially after Monday's results whether it turns into a more national movement (which could potentially happen and has happened in the past in Canada). If trolling like this continues, I think we'll start to see a lot more interest in copyright policy pop up nationwide, and a lot more national discussion on the roles ISPs play within law and copyright.
--
My Canadian Tech Podcast: »canadiantechnetwork.podbean.com/
My Self Help and Digital Policy Blog: »jkoblovsky.wordpress.com/


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

CIPPIC has filed a motion to adjourn Monday's hearing til the judge can rule on their intervene.

As well, the hearing (in which the judge will make a decision on the motion to adjourn) has been pushed back to 11am from 9:30am.

»cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/In···-2058-12
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to jkoblovsky

said by jkoblovsky:

I think it's representative of a much larger issue within copyright policy, and that is that there are too many in the private sector that directly protect themselves and run for the door around copyright issues, rather than thinking of the people that ultimately are effected by this.

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Right now were are in a phase of make-believe, thinking we have rights.

When the Trans-Pacific Partnership kicks in, we will have whatever rights the US Trade Representative says we have - and that would be virtually none in the copyright area.

You will, however, have the right to go to jail for copyright infringement.

Who7

join:2012-12-18
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

CIPPIC has filed a motion to adjourn Monday's hearing til the judge can rule on their intervene.

As well, the hearing (in which the judge will make a decision on the motion to adjourn) has been pushed back to 11am from 9:30am.

»cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/In···-2058-12

Somebody cares because it's certainly not TSI.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

said by Who7:

said by resa1983:

CIPPIC has filed a motion to adjourn Monday's hearing til the judge can rule on their intervene.

As well, the hearing (in which the judge will make a decision on the motion to adjourn) has been pushed back to 11am from 9:30am.

»cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/In···-2058-12

Somebody cares because it's certainly not TSI.

You'd be surprised.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

Who7

join:2012-12-18

said by resa1983 See Profile

You'd be surprised.
[/BQUOTE :

I'm from Missouri......show me on the 16th.



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

said by Who7:

said by resa1983:

CIPPIC has filed a motion to adjourn Monday's hearing til the judge can rule on their intervene.

As well, the hearing (in which the judge will make a decision on the motion to adjourn) has been pushed back to 11am from 9:30am.

»cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/In···-2058-12

Somebody cares because it's certainly not TSI.

You'd be surprised.

They've proven this up until the 16th. The error of 42 people already should render these logs inadmissible due to the mistakes.

I've said this time and time again. Until there is a 'foolproof' method, this is a gamble, especially everyone using dynamic ip's. By time an IP is marked as "naughty" 13 other people have used it. Each time your lease expires are you getting an ip from someone who just rang up over 3 TB in warez?

It's a fine line to walk on between innocence and guilty. Too fine for my liking.

Putting all that aside, information is being handed over to a very sketchy business whose business model is a form of extortion. I truly feel sorry for those who are innocent. Their lives are about to be run through the ringer.