 A Lurkerthat's Ms Lurker btw
Premium Member
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N |
to TSI Marc
Re: Why we are not opposing motion on Monday.said by TSI Marc:..not sure I've ever heard of a case where logs, these kinds of logs, were proven to be inaccurate.
Do you log traffic by modem MAC or IP? I ask because years ago I got notice from Cogeco (generated by modem MAC, but not my IP). A rep from Cogeco confirmed there were two duplicate MACs on the system, something that happened from time to time. Sorry to add to the questions, but am curious more than anything. I'm not affected by this, but just interested overall. |
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to TSI Marc
Marc: I'm curious, Michael Geist said in the Nov 13, 2012 copy of TheTyee.ca, and I quote, " The Canadian approach to unauthorized downloading is now centered on a "notice-and-notice" system that is likely to take effect next year. The system allows rights holders to send notifications alleging infringement to Internet providers, who must forward the notices to their subscribers. THE INTERNET PROVIDER IS NOT REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE THE SUBSCRIBER INFORMATION NOR TAKE ANY FURTHER ACTION." » thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/20 ··· ght-Law/Is there any reason the TSI isn't following this policy????? |
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 TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON |
TSI Marc
Premium Member
2012-Dec-15 4:35 pm
It's not a law yet. Some parts of the new law went into effect. Notice and Notice is the only part that didn't yet.
This is what I was saying in my blog... the timing of all of this is odd. |
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said by TSI Marc:It's not a law yet. Some parts of the new law went into effect. Notice and Notice is the only part that didn't yet.
This is what I was saying in my blog... the timing of all of this is odd.
I suspect Voltage is trying to make a last dash at a potential cash cow, before that law comes into effect. |
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to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:said by UK_Dave:Hey Marc,
Just a quick one before I grab a quick afternoon pint...
I mentioned earlier re: log accuracy...
Would you be prepared to put a finger in the air and say your internal, voluntary, logs are 100% accurate?
As accurate as any other ISP... lol you're getting good at the lawyer-speak already! nice dodge. |
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TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON |
to Ndt_tech
said by Ndt_tech:Marc:
I'm curious, Michael Geist said in the Nov 13, 2012 copy of TheTyee.ca, and I quote, " The Canadian approach to unauthorized downloading is now centered on a "notice-and-notice" system that is likely to take effect next year. The system allows rights holders to send notifications alleging infringement to Internet providers, who must forward the notices to their subscribers. THE INTERNET PROVIDER IS NOT REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE THE SUBSCRIBER INFORMATION NOR TAKE ANY FURTHER ACTION."
»thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/20 ··· ght-Law/
Is there any reason the TSI isn't following this policy?????
here's additional info on Notice and Notice that I'm passing along: Notice and notice is a system that requires ISPs to essentially forward notices of copyright infringement/takedown demands received from rightsholders. They can charge for the service, but are required to forward the notice as soon as reasonably possible and may be subject to statutory damages if they do not. Here is a link to a comparison between the notice and takedown provisions of the DMCA and the notice and notice provisions of the CMA (link taken from Michael Geist's blog): » www.entertainmentmediala ··· ignal%29The provisions themselves are 41.25 and 41.26 and can be found here: » www.parl.gc.ca/HousePubl ··· le=78#18I believe there is no current schedule for bringing the sections into force. I believe they are currently working on the regulations that will accompany those sections, and they will come into force when they are ready with that. In terms of how things would have been different, the answer is that they may not have been. Notice and notice is an alternative scheme requiring notices to be conveyed, but rights holders are still permitted to follow the usual infringement litigation route, and in connection with that can seek disclosure orders. |
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| TSI Marc |
to jibby
said by jibby:said by TSI Marc:said by UK_Dave:Hey Marc,
Just a quick one before I grab a quick afternoon pint...
I mentioned earlier re: log accuracy...
Would you be prepared to put a finger in the air and say your internal, voluntary, logs are 100% accurate?
As accurate as any other ISP... lol you're getting good at the lawyer-speak already! nice dodge. Not sure how that's a dodge? the records are generated by routers... unless those make mistakes.. I'd assume they're the same as any other ISP... |
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jibby
Member
2012-Dec-15 5:39 pm
well isn't that the question - is it possible that there are mistakes?
do computers and/or routers ever make mistakes? can you, under oath, swear that the IPs you'll provide to Voltage be correct? |
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TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON |
TSI Marc
Premium Member
2012-Dec-15 5:40 pm
said by jibby:well isn't that the question - is it possible that there are mistakes?
do computers and/or routers ever make mistakes? can you, under oath, swear that the IPs you'll provide to Voltage be correct?
it's possible.. solar flares.. all sorts of stuff. |
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| TSI Marc |
TSI Marc
Premium Member
2012-Dec-15 5:42 pm
Dont they say that on September 11, 2001 all the atomic clocks were affected by the collective effect of the world witnessing the events...? it's possible... |
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jibby
Member
2012-Dec-15 5:48 pm
I'll take that as a 'yes i think our logs are 100% accurate' since your examples of what is 'possible' are far fetched (solar flare?)
kinda sounds like you're saying that it's possible the moon is made of cheese, but you're 99.9% sure that it isn't
(or at least thats imo how a judge would interpret your comment) |
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TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON |
TSI Marc
Premium Member
2012-Dec-15 5:51 pm
There's not much playing around with this stuff.. it's just there..
unless the time that was given to us is not accurate or the time zone or something like that.. maybe human error in correlating the IP to the name..
The data itself, I've never see it where the data was wrong... |
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jibby
Member
2012-Dec-15 6:01 pm
so there are never cases where an IP or connection isn't properly mapped? we see it in the forums sometimes, where someone is opening tickets for not having a connection yet Bell insists they see the person online
and human error is pretty common
even if human error and improperly mapped connections combined amount to 1% of the 2300 it means that 23 people are going to get sued that don't deserve to be
i'd hope that if an ISP were compelled to give up their subscriber info they'd at least make the court aware of the fact that there is a margin for error in compiling the IP lists (a margin much larger than the possibility of the moon being made of cheese) |
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TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON |
TSI Marc
Premium Member
2012-Dec-15 6:05 pm
In fairness. I never suggested the moon was made of cheese. check this out though: » www.glcoherence.org/moni ··· tem.htmlsolar flairs are also known to affect electronic devices  Those instances are when a port is not properly mapped but a username is always properly associated to a customer and the IPs are associated to the username... so those instances wouldn't matter here. |
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 hm
@videotron.ca |
hm
Anon
2012-Dec-15 6:16 pm
said by TSI Marc:Those instances are when a port is not properly mapped but a username is always properly associated to a customer and the IPs are associated to the username... so those instances wouldn't matter here.
Port mapping errors by Bell Canada are indeed well documented. Seen this quite a few times. Believe this was even mentioned in this topic a few pages back, or another. |
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TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON |
TSI Marc
Premium Member
2012-Dec-15 6:18 pm
said by hm :said by TSI Marc:Those instances are when a port is not properly mapped but a username is always properly associated to a customer and the IPs are associated to the username... so those instances wouldn't matter here.
Port mapping errors by Bell Canada are indeed well documented. Seen this quite a few times. Believe this was even mentioned in this topic a few pages back, or another. Yes, I agree but the login name is what allows you to login. no matter where you login with it... it's tied to the customer.. so if the port is not properly mapped.. it doesn't matter, that customer would have used the correct login anyway. I suppose its possible you shared your login with somebody else... in that case, I wouldn't want to be your friend though. |
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to jibby
said by jibby:well isn't that the question - is it possible that there are mistakes?
do computers and/or routers ever make mistakes? can you, under oath, swear that the IPs you'll provide to Voltage be correct?
if any data is going to be questioned as to validity, I would start with Canipre's....I wonder if they get paid per IP they manage to scoop up in their giant fish net??hmmm |
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to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:In terms of how things would have been different, the answer is that they may not have been. Notice and notice is an alternative scheme requiring notices to be conveyed, but rights holders are still permitted to follow the usual infringement litigation route, and in connection with that can seek disclosure orders.
Which basically still doesn't change. Not sure about TekSavvy but pretty much every ISP has done the notice and notice system on a voluntary basis for years. |
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